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On February 16 2013 14:39 sylverfyre wrote:
I think you're not understanding why Cait is such a good pusher. It's not the Q. It's the autoattack range (and the headshot damage vs. minions)
It's hard to STOP cait from pushing. As Annie vs. Nunu+Cait, I couldn't help but get pushed because Cait would take potshots on me any time I tried, then she'd net away. If I were against Tristana, I'd just fucking kill her - her jump is interruptible (I couldnt get close enough to cait to stop the net with a stun). Ultimately, though, Annie assists ganks SO well, I was able to flashstun cait when akali showed up, even though Akali was pre-6, it was a kill. Then later in the game,
I feel like Lulu is SUPER important vs. Nunu Cait, because glitterlance helps slow down the pushing so well, and also harasses back well. You NEED help from your support to deal with a bloodboiled caitlyn autoattacking your lane constantly. Elise support just wasn't doing a lot - she's too much of a 'harass' support and not a 'set up' support.
my elise support was lackluster but at the same time we didn't have good communication, i was actually confused on what to do most of the time, and then when i heard "i've been waiting for you to hit a cocoon this entire time" i was thinking, whoops, i was just using neurotoxin.
if i wanted to engage all i needed to do was rappel, and it was really useful once the akali gank came in because even if they flash, i can rappel into cocoon. still, that gank was huge, and after that we walked all over them. whether i could all in with rappel cocoon, i was never completely sure because it was only the third time i played support elise.
the other thing i noticed is after we snowballed, i was able to get sorc shoes and haunting guise, and with just those two items i was pretty strong, which is huge coming out of the support position. with other supports, it's not always a good idea to give kills to them instead of the ADC, but i feel like it might be beneficial as elise if you can get them.
definitely wanna play around with getting ohmwrecker on jungle or support elise.
On February 16 2013 13:55 Seuss wrote:
[*]BotRK + Hurricane isn't an effective combo on champions like Caitlyn. Despite doing well in laning, the damage fell off extremely quickly. BotRK will likely be more useful if the PBE buffs go live.
i'm not sure if you played more games with BotRK+Hurricane, but when i played nami in cait+nami vs cait+leona, i felt that leona misplayed the lane when she was at a disadvantage and allowing us to get kills, which might have delayed a lot on your caitlyn build. i also wonder if putting something before hurricane would be more beneficial, like a PD or zeal.
ggs everyone, was really fun, next time i hope to get in on some testing of ideas instead of playing control but i just didn't have any ideas today, lol.
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I did misplay that lane on Leona. I also didn't get my mastery page up in time and was running 21/0/9, which left me feeling really naked. I think it got me killed in that early engage where I would have otherwise survived with 0/13/17
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As Leona, I'd prefer 1/13/16 (Exhaust mastery instead of pickpocket. Too hard to use pickpocket as Leona)
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As for the Spectral wraith rush on Syndra, I think any spellvamp is a good idea, and if you add the CDR from it + Athene's + blue/masteries, you are capped. The mana regen was nice early but I felt a chalice/athenes was still needed when blue-less. I will have to test it more in situations where I don't have a Nocturne blitzing me every teamfight.
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On February 17 2013 00:10 Ketara wrote:
I did misplay that lane on Leona. I also didn't get my mastery page up in time and was running 21/0/9, which left me feeling really naked. I think it got me killed in that early engage where I would have otherwise survived with 0/13/17
i just wanted to mention it because for the purposes of testing the caitlyn botrk-hurricane could be inconclusive, not that i want to pick on your leona or anything like that.
i also feel like if there's a critical mistake like that with runes and such, we should just restart the game, no point in pushing something that you're not comfortable with.
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I didnt get in on this yesterday because Im kind of in exam mode, but Im looking at what you guys came up with after sutdying AP/Support Combos and it kinda makes me wanna try this even more.
Xerath/Support(Leona/Soraka)
He gets free armor, has very good burst @ 6, phenomenal range and if you give him blue @ lvl 1 you have surprisingly good waveclear. His stun is probably better used bot lane to enable jungle ganks than mid, and you can abuse his range better in a longer lane. Id suggest playing him alongside soraka/leona because Leona is going to make his 6 burst even more rediculous than it already is, and you can just dunk the lane from there. He'd also compliment AD mids like Graves or Cait who either excel at burst or have good range.
It all kinda makes sense in my head, so what do you guys think?
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zyra support lux ap carry? Tons of push and poke for a lane swap game filled with lux constant pushing
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Support Rammus?
Taunt the enemy, stack armor, enemy lane can't fight you past 6.
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On February 18 2013 04:47 ticklishmusic wrote:
Support Rammus?
Taunt the enemy, stack armor, enemy lane can't fight you past 6.
Have you seen a Soraka/Rammus lane bot? I only faced it once, but my god that game still haunts my dreams. If they have someone autoattack heavy like ashe, vayne or draven, there is nothing they can do but farm and hope rammus doesn't get in range to taunt.
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On February 18 2013 05:18 57 Corvette wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 04:47 ticklishmusic wrote:
Support Rammus?
Taunt the enemy, stack armor, enemy lane can't fight you past 6. Have you seen a Soraka/Rammus lane bot? I only faced it once, but my god that game still haunts my dreams. If they have someone autoattack heavy like ashe, vayne or draven, there is nothing they can do but farm and hope rammus doesn't get in range to taunt.
Nope. I'm curious as to how much damage Rammus really does with his WE combo-- I don't feel like a Rammus/Raka botlane could really kill anyone (definitely be a complete dick), but I might be completely wrong.
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T.R.O.L.L.S. Bulletin:
There appear to be circumstances in which Thresh's Q will tug three times, not including the effect of his E. I noticed this while reviewing replays for Mondays with Monte, but have not been able to identify what causes this to happen. So far Tenacity, # of souls, Q level, Thresh's level, and cooldown reduction have been eliminated as factors.
If any of you notice this third tug I'd appreciate replays so I can find the common factor.
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Have we checked distance and/or relative motion as factors? I'll keep an eye on it, although I don't have a replay thing.
BTW, D-Blade start on him is fucking terrifying.
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*New* Support nasus (not to be confused with kill-lane nasus)
Since you have built-in exhaust you can go clairvoyance
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On February 18 2013 12:57 101toss wrote:
*New* Support nasus (not to be confused with kill-lane nasus)
Since you have built-in exhaust you can go clairvoyance
heal is still better than cv
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Tf annie bot lane, with ad carry mid
Works amazing vs no poke support and shortish range ad.
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i am starting to lean against squishy supports
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On February 18 2013 11:23 Seuss wrote:
T.R.O.L.L.S. Bulletin:
There appear to be circumstances in which Thresh's Q will tug three times, not including the effect of his E. I noticed this while reviewing replays for Mondays with Monte, but have not been able to identify what causes this to happen. So far Tenacity, # of souls, Q level, Thresh's level, and cooldown reduction have been eliminated as factors.
If any of you notice this third tug I'd appreciate replays so I can find the common factor.
Pretty sure its just distance. Like, a max range Q will have 3 pulls, while a closer one will have less.
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On February 18 2013 12:57 101toss wrote:
*New* Support nasus (not to be confused with kill-lane nasus)
Since you have built-in exhaust you can go clairvoyance
It's not correct to say you have built-in Exhaust because Wither doesn't reduce ability damage. Unless the enemy carry wastes their abilities/initial auto on you, your carry will still take appreciable initial damage. You still want Exhaust for that.
On February 18 2013 17:14 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 11:23 Seuss wrote:
T.R.O.L.L.S. Bulletin:
There appear to be circumstances in which Thresh's Q will tug three times, not including the effect of his E. I noticed this while reviewing replays for Mondays with Monte, but have not been able to identify what causes this to happen. So far Tenacity, # of souls, Q level, Thresh's level, and cooldown reduction have been eliminated as factors.
If any of you notice this third tug I'd appreciate replays so I can find the common factor. Pretty sure its just distance. Like, a max range Q will have 3 pulls, while a closer one will have less.
It's not distance. The instance I noted in my replay occurred at less than half of maximum range, and I actively walked toward them during it. In fact, the second pull moved over and behind me. The third pull actually started to move them back the other way before it was interrupted by E.
I also landed a bajillion maximum range hooks on bots and creeps in a custom game without getting a third pull.
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On February 19 2013 01:43 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 17:14 ticklishmusic wrote:On February 18 2013 11:23 Seuss wrote:
T.R.O.L.L.S. Bulletin:
There appear to be circumstances in which Thresh's Q will tug three times, not including the effect of his E. I noticed this while reviewing replays for Mondays with Monte, but have not been able to identify what causes this to happen. So far Tenacity, # of souls, Q level, Thresh's level, and cooldown reduction have been eliminated as factors.
If any of you notice this third tug I'd appreciate replays so I can find the common factor. Pretty sure its just distance. Like, a max range Q will have 3 pulls, while a closer one will have less. It's not distance. The instance I noted in my replay occurred at less than half of maximum range, and I actively walked toward them during it. In fact, the second pull moved over and behind me. The third pull actually started to move them back the other way before it was interrupted by E. I also landed a bajillion maximum range hooks on bots and creeps in a custom game without getting a third pull.
That definitely doesn't discount relative movement, then. Perhaps it adjusts the pull as you move around. Have you gotten it stationary? Also, have you checked to see if interruption of movement, like for collision, is part of it? I'd try to duplicate, but my days are generally busy, since I'm a stay at home for a psychopathic toddler.
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On a different subject, I've been thinking about Homeguard. I need to do some measurements regarding how much time it saves on a recall due to the movement speed, but they seem much more powerful in general than one might assume.
The value of Homeguard is in arriving in lane/jungle or at objectives sooner. 15 seconds might not seem like a significant difference in returning speed, but that can equate to additional CS, farm, or salvaged objectives. Very, very often in games I see players recall at a slightly inopportune time, at which point the enemy jungler quickly moves to try and rush an objective. Fairly often this window is small enough that Homeguard boots could be the difference between giving up the objective and arriving in time.
If your team all builds Homeguard, and your opponents do not, the power to fight, recall, and rush to another important location will be significantly superior. Situations like pushing a tower/inhibitor at the cost of Dragon/Baron may be averted. At the very least, a jungler with Homeguard would have an easier time rushing to a hotspot after a clear or gank.
Part of what diminishes the apparent value of Homeguard is a common lack of pre-recall preparation, most players aren't prepared to shop before they arrive back in base. I'm often guilty of this myself, but the delay in returning to the lane can be very substantial. When it takes 5-8 seconds to heal fully it's not as big of a deal to stop and think, but with Homeguard you want to get moving instantly.
In any case, I'm curious if all-Homeguard teams might be useful for more than trying to recover a losing game.
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EPT
