EPT[TL R&D] T.R.O.L.L.S. - Page 17
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Elite00fm
United States548 Posts
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
On January 25 2013 06:08 Sc2eleazar wrote: I appreciate the offer but these will all be solo run first clear tests Wasn't talking to you... | ||
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Sermokala
United States13849 Posts
On January 25 2013 07:18 Elite00fm wrote: Carry from the jungle with 3 solo lanes, while a support and the carry jungle? Support doesnt get gold in lane anyway, why would the jungle be different? Can someone please try this? Why would you put the adc into a lane all by himself? Hes gona get zoned and never have any farm. Did you think about this in any way at all? | ||
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Antyee
Hungary1011 Posts
On January 25 2013 07:21 Sermokala wrote: Why would you put the adc into a lane all by himself? Hes gona get zoned and never have any farm. Did you think about this in any way at all? I'm quite sure he was thinking about something like Swain top, Nocturne mid, Olaf bot, Ezreal+Something(Nunu, Lulu, Janna?) jungle. But now that Ez got nerfed, I don't really know which ranged ad could do well with not that much farm and being underleveled. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On January 25 2013 07:18 Elite00fm wrote: Carry from the jungle with 3 solo lanes, while a support and the carry jungle? Support doesnt get gold in lane anyway, why would the jungle be different? Can someone please try this? I am willing to put as much effort into trying your idea as you have put into its formation. Which is to say that by typing these two sentences, I have already exhausted the resources allocated (and more besides). | ||
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Sermokala
United States13849 Posts
On January 25 2013 08:01 Antyee wrote: I'm quite sure he was thinking about something like Swain top, Nocturne mid, Olaf bot, Ezreal+Something(Nunu, Lulu, Janna?) jungle. But now that Ez got nerfed, I don't really know which ranged ad could do well with not that much farm and being underleveled. Your excuse for his sentences makes it even worse. A ranged ad with no farm and being under leveled will do nothing in teamfights can't gank and will leave the support in somehow an even worse position. | ||
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
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Sermokala
United States13849 Posts
On January 25 2013 08:53 lilwisper wrote: I think some folks are just putting any idea out there. I think the focus of the group is to spend time on an idea until you refine it in a way that it can be possible. How effective the idea becomes is a different thing, but at the very least one should spend time to make the idea possible. Yeah like I'm still trying to work out a draven/j4 botlane (its really really cool) but its still in the very early stage for me and is about where my earlier draven jungle was at. I'm not sure if its way too tryhard coordination needed for it to work the way it needs to to compete with taric/graves or really in any way to make j4 worth picking over taric in any situation. I'm racking my head against going for a philo first ss first or mail first builds for j4 and I don't want to present this whole thing until its respectable. | ||
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
On January 25 2013 11:45 Sermokala wrote: Yeah like I'm still trying to work out a draven/j4 botlane (its really really cool) but its still in the very early stage for me and is about where my earlier draven jungle was at. I'm not sure if its way too tryhard coordination needed for it to work the way it needs to to compete with taric/graves or really in any way to make j4 worth picking over taric in any situation. I'm racking my head against going for a philo first ss first or mail first builds for j4 and I don't want to present this whole thing until its respectable. For what it's worth I think what your doing is fine. I think it's the exact thing that the folks that started this whole movement wanted. They wanted you to have a place you can go and try things, even if a lot of the time they don't pan out. In return they require you at least put in some effort, not say a sentence and then ask others to do your leg work. In a ways that is insulting to the group in my opinion. Quite a few people here are high level and some are even tournament quality players and they are trying to provide a space where a lower level player like myself can try things without getting laughed at (too hard hehehe). Sorry for being a little butthurt about it. I'll go back to work so that I can get an idea rolling. :D | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Do something like: Yorick top Zilean mid Urgot Taric bot Tryndamere jungle Lanes play with full knowledge that Tryndy will never gank unless he just so happens to be right there while he's constantly farming jungle camps. The entire team late game becomes keep Tryndamere alive forever while he 1v5's the enemy team. I'm planning on being around tomorrow if you guys are testing stuff. I'll help with whatever. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13849 Posts
I don't know anything about jungle tf and I only did a couple games with jungle draven. jungle draven is very hard and it takes a better mind then me to figure out what I'm doing wrong most of the time. If someone wants to do a bit of paired testing with a jungle draven or support jarvan hit me up. I just did a game where I maxed flag on jarvan support and it went really really well. Just walk up to the enemy duo and flag them and instantly win trade, if they try and counter poke you you can lance into them and get a knockup easy and have a crushing trade for your adc to capitalize on. What adc wouldn't like a nice as and armor advantage onto a trade that already has the opponent knocked up and slightly armor shredded. Much more testing is needed to see if this is something more then just another situation pick. Speaking of which I propose a new term to classify ideas that don't achive merit or are dismissed for any reason. J,A,S.P (just another situational pick) Beacuse I said stuff about doing jungle draven I should say that my build was cloth 5 pot into vamp tabi pickaxe gbelt. After that it was a mix of thirster wisper warmogs depending on how the game was going. after that a ga and another thirstier for late game. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Tryndy could probably do it without Smite even. I'd find it hard to believe that a melee carry could be shut down too hard by CC in season 3 with better Tenacity options, Mercurial Scimitar, Cleanse, Mikaels, etc. | ||
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Ogww
Finland224 Posts
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
On January 25 2013 15:00 Ogww wrote: Why the fuck would anyone jungle ad carry when you get like 50% less gold from jungle than from lane? Because there is more gold in the jungle now. | ||
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JALbert
United States484 Posts
-Safe early transition to midgame - assuming laners can be strong to protect jungle early. -Carry jungle will be 1st or 2nd position. This means one solo laner will be in a much lower position. Thus, need laner who is strong early and doesn't need farm late or brings lots of utility regardless of farm. -You can feed kills in every lane onto the jungler. Potentially massive. I'm not sure I agree with the theory of "farm jungle passively for 30 minutes." Set up ganks, end lane phase and let your 4th position solo support the team while the jungler takes a lot of lane farm midgame. - Gives you a LOT of flexibility in lane setups. I think other T.R.O.L.L.S. research may play into some surprisingly strong team comps here. - Probably best against an enemy team that can't apply aggressive early pressure to your jungle. - Can be hidden pretty well in champ select, some comps will probably be flexible between 1st/2nd jungler and more standard play depending on what the enemy shows at the end of champ selection. Possible 4th position solos: Nunu - lane bully early, can defer farm later/hybrid jungle. Brings good utility late game with BB. Yorrick - Another lane bully, ulti has good synergy with hypercarry. Kayle - Really oriented on a melee carry pick like Trynd, mid Kayle (or top Kayle) is fairly farm dependent, but the ulti could be fantastic. Zilean - Doesn't work well as a 5th position support, but I feel that he can bring a fair amount to the team with early farm that tapers off. Potential carry jungles: Melee carry - Trynd, Yi. (I don't really like Fiora's kit much, and I think she's a weaker jungler than those two.) AD carry - Vayne, Ezreal, Twitch. Gives you the benefit of flexibility in lane choices. Vayne jungle may be pretty difficult, but she fits the smooth early game for the hypercarry notion more than Ez IMO. AP carry - Cassi, Karth. I think the Spectral Wraith buff may make jungling AP more attractive, but it's fairly murky waters ATM. Very weak against invasion which may thwart the whole plan. 1st/2nd position bruiser - Olaf and Riven immediately leap out at me. | ||
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Cr4zyH0r5e
Peru1308 Posts
I'm willing to try anything anyone suggests as long as I have the champ or he's on free week. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11454 Posts
On January 25 2013 17:51 JALbert wrote: Thoughts on carry jungle: -Safe early transition to midgame - assuming laners can be strong to protect jungle early. -Carry jungle will be 1st or 2nd position. This means one solo laner will be in a much lower position. Thus, need laner who is strong early and doesn't need farm late or brings lots of utility regardless of farm. -You can feed kills in every lane onto the jungler. Potentially massive. I'm not sure I agree with the theory of "farm jungle passively for 30 minutes." Set up ganks, end lane phase and let your 4th position solo support the team while the jungler takes a lot of lane farm midgame. - Gives you a LOT of flexibility in lane setups. I think other T.R.O.L.L.S. research may play into some surprisingly strong team comps here. - Probably best against an enemy team that can't apply aggressive early pressure to your jungle. - Can be hidden pretty well in champ select, some comps will probably be flexible between 1st/2nd jungler and more standard play depending on what the enemy shows at the end of champ selection. Possible 4th position solos: Nunu - lane bully early, can defer farm later/hybrid jungle. Brings good utility late game with BB. Yorrick - Another lane bully, ulti has good synergy with hypercarry. Kayle - Really oriented on a melee carry pick like Trynd, mid Kayle (or top Kayle) is fairly farm dependent, but the ulti could be fantastic. Zilean - Doesn't work well as a 5th position support, but I feel that he can bring a fair amount to the team with early farm that tapers off. Potential carry jungles: Melee carry - Trynd, Yi. (I don't really like Fiora's kit much, and I think she's a weaker jungler than those two.) AD carry - Vayne, Ezreal, Twitch. Gives you the benefit of flexibility in lane choices. Vayne jungle may be pretty difficult, but she fits the smooth early game for the hypercarry notion more than Ez IMO. AP carry - Cassi, Karth. I think the Spectral Wraith buff may make jungling AP more attractive, but it's fairly murky waters ATM. Very weak against invasion which may thwart the whole plan. 1st/2nd position bruiser - Olaf and Riven immediately leap out at me. Hm, are any adcs able to clear the jungle reasonably well? For the sake of purity, i don't think one should mix two different concepts in one test, which would be melee carry + putting the carry into the jungle. So, basically, a good idea for a kind of pure test would be putting a ranged ADC into the jungle, and keeping an otherwise reasonable team with champions like those you proposed. Of course this depends on an adc being able to clear the jungle. But with the prevalence of smiteless first buffs, this could be possible, leaving only the question if it is reasonably feasible to get him that money through the jungle. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13849 Posts
On January 25 2013 15:00 Ogww wrote: Why the fuck would anyone jungle ad carry when you get like 50% less gold from jungle than from lane? The math is like you get 75% of the gold from a lane when you get every single creep from lane from farming the jungle. Thats still a ton better then anyone below a pro level and you can just go and farm lanes xj9 style if your ganks fail. Also covering lanes when people go back and can't shove into the enemy tower for any reason. On January 25 2013 19:08 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote: Been having some fun with jungle singed today. He sort of has the xin zhao feeling, that you can just walk up to any lane at lvl 3 and burn a flash or get a kill. his first 2 clears are somewhat slow but it gets a lot better really quick. I'm just glad he can still jungle in season 3. I'm willing to try anything anyone suggests as long as I have the champ or he's on free week. Singed jungle isn't really anything new its just generaly not as good as other junglers. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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ArcTimes
Peru269 Posts
- If the jungler is going to be the carry, Do you need an adc carry bot? Maybe you can send another champ that could go top(maybe one melee and other range) - The jungler + support set up should do good ganks. An early oracle could help alot here because of the wards. _ Another option is sending the ranged ad carry mid, because a ranged adc jungler would be difficult, andi think a melee jungler is better as an adc. You can send an ap carry that can 1v2 bot. | ||
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