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I'm wondering actually (since I used to play Xerath quite a bit) how it was you didn't just stomp him really hard early on?
Xerath's early game mana costs are very high and if you spam Q (your harass is 40 mana vs his 70+) you should be able to gain a very sizable lead on him or force him back real early. I do understand that he was getting jungle help, but yeah, Xerath's early game is VERY bad until he can start oneshotting ranged creeps from his turret. and combo the shit out of you with his ult.
Also did this Xerath miss his ultimate a lot? I'm just wondering since I'm kind of afraid to play him now with the nerf to his ult and I figure it's going to take me a long time to get used to the cast time increase.
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I tried to, but as I said his jungler came several times (jungle Shen, didn't get banned, meh) and that was before the first back so I was out of wards to be able to safely go on him. He went oom once but then his jungler appeared again and we both had to back (me because he did and I didn't want to end up behind).
Maybe I didn't spam aggressively enough.
He did miss a lot of Qs after his E (I didn't retaliate immediatly as I basically zigzag-ed around him until he missed his Q, mine's animation would have been too slow so he mainly wasted mana on those), and he often missed his first ult because I was moving. If he managed to hit with the first one, he'd generally be able to hit the others unless I flashed.
I think it had more to do with him obviously being bad at skillshots (most long-range Qs he hit his target was in a straight line too): he could have hit more if he lead his ults correctly but he more or less piled them at the same point unless I dodged the first by far where he'd adjust. I'd say it's more getting used to it and not trying to instaburst your target now—but seeing how it's the way we learnt to play him I may not be easy for all (I know it won't for me).
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couple questions about viktor:
1) His E.. does it work well with smartcasting? Do you recommend smartcasting?
2) Do you still get wota in its current nerfed state? I can understand picking up a revolver in some lanes where you're trading a lot, but I think leaving it at revolver and then going dcap or rylai's is probably better
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On July 04 2012 03:34 Perplex wrote:
couple questions about viktor:
1) His E.. does it work well with smartcasting? Do you recommend smartcasting?
2) Do you still get wota in its current nerfed state? I can understand picking up a revolver in some lanes where you're trading a lot, but I think leaving it at revolver and then going dcap or rylai's is probably better
No and no, personally. I don't even like revolver on him, honestly since he already trades really well and relies mostly on huge burst I'd rather rely on high-AP items and Rylai's/Athene's/Abyssal when I need some tankiness.
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On July 04 2012 03:34 Perplex wrote:
couple questions about viktor:
1) His E.. does it work well with smartcasting? Do you recommend smartcasting?
2) Do you still get wota in its current nerfed state? I can understand picking up a revolver in some lanes where you're trading a lot, but I think leaving it at revolver and then going dcap or rylai's is probably better
I don't smart cast it. It's personal preference, I just don't like the way it flows. I have very good accuracy without smart cast, and I don't want to mess with that. If you can get used to smart casting it and you do well with it, I see no reason not to smart cast it.
If I get wota, I get it late. Like, I even get revolver after DCap now. Q does heal a lot with spell vamp, as does a full clear on minions. However, with the new wota cost, I find myself not wanting to commit the time and money early to wota, and rather go for other items. After I complete different items, then I'll complete the wota. It really depends on the flow of the game.
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WotA is more utility, and then some damage, considering the AP it provides, while Viktor likes AP to go with his ratios and his power peak midgame, so the new WotA is paying a lot of money for mostly utility, which doesn't suit his needs.
I was playing him bruiserish when he came out (WotA, Rylai, Abyssal/QSS, Zhonya—the QSS had a lot to do with the fact that W and R used to disappear on death, which made it annoying to get bursted down before your dps could heal you or you cast that clutch Q), but now I find that 2 drings/augment:death/rabaddon does a lot more for his burst, which is what I want. It's a bit harder to play, as the spellvamp allowed you to take more risks while poking your opponents lower before the burst, and with dcap you can burst from higher but have to account for the movespeed of the singularity in case they flash out or simply run.
Regarding E and smartcast... I turned it on once. Couldn't cast it while moving for the life of me, too weird.
It was a coop. vs AI game.
Never turned it on again.
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On July 04 2012 04:08 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:34 Perplex wrote:
couple questions about viktor:
1) His E.. does it work well with smartcasting? Do you recommend smartcasting?
2) Do you still get wota in its current nerfed state? I can understand picking up a revolver in some lanes where you're trading a lot, but I think leaving it at revolver and then going dcap or rylai's is probably better I don't smart cast it. It's personal preference, I just don't like the way it flows. I have very good accuracy without smart cast, and I don't want to mess with that. If you can get used to smart casting it and you do well with it, I see no reason not to smart cast it. If I get wota, I get it late. Like, I even get revolver after DCap now. Q does heal a lot with spell vamp, as does a full clear on minions. However, with the new wota cost, I find myself not wanting to commit the time and money early to wota, and rather go for other items. After I complete different items, then I'll complete the wota. It really depends on the flow of the game.
Pretty much this.
Going for early Wota just isn't worth it anymore.
What I normally do now (or plan to do now - haven't that often recently), is get dcap and if fights are more drawn out or where I receive prolonged sustained dmg I would get a revolver. Other wise I would normally complete something like Rylais/Abyssal (I don't get Void until a bit later). But then again variations will occur - as some games go differently than others.
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Ugh. Riot is saying that they are going to buff Viktor's Q and W (in terms of their augments). I wonder if they still want to fix his broken laser or did they give up... I feel that Viktor's E needs a big buff should his laser gets fixed.
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Do you even read what you wrote before you hit "post"? Why in the hell would that be necessary?
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On July 04 2012 03:34 Perplex wrote:
couple questions about viktor:
1) His E.. does it work well with smartcasting? Do you recommend smartcasting?
Just to chime in here - I have been playing a bit of Viktor lately, and have found smartcasting his E to be rather intuitive.
It works like this: When you press the hotkey down, you place the start point for the laser. You can then move your mouse to aim its direction while the key is still pressed. It will fire when you release the key. It reminds me of gesture clicks from the Myth games when done fast (this probably doesn't help anyone). I find I can fire off a laser quickly and accurately.
The one major downside is the lack of the range indicator, making it harder to get max range out of the laser.
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On August 03 2012 08:26 StrigHT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 03:34 Perplex wrote:
couple questions about viktor:
1) His E.. does it work well with smartcasting? Do you recommend smartcasting?
Just to chime in here - I have been playing a bit of Viktor lately, and have found smartcasting his E to be rather intuitive. It works like this: When you press the hotkey down, you place the start point for the laser. You can then move your mouse to aim its direction while the key is still pressed. It will fire when you release the key. It reminds me of gesture clicks from the Myth games when done fast (this probably doesn't help anyone). I find I can fire off a laser quickly and accurately. The one major downside is the lack of the range indicator, making it harder to get max range out of the laser.
Whatever works for you mang, I use dumbcast.
I will be updating this thread eventually...just need to actually commit to it, and I'm lazy.
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On August 03 2012 10:21 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I will be updating this thread eventually...just need to actually commit to it, and I'm lazy.
^ less moonflowers, more pew pew guide updating.
Also, DFG range: 750.
Q range: 600
R range: 700
Viktor's burst: around 2.6 AP ratio with Death augment and assuming people eat 2 ticks of Chaos Storm (does it tick immediatly, or starting a whole second after cast?), and 597 damage from R>E>Q>W @7 (assuming one point in W).
That's a lot, but nothing like an assassin. Add in a DFG for ~29% of current health at the start of the burst, and it's suddenly way more likely to kill people.
I'm not too sure about it as Viktor's just so good at harassing people with laser until they're brought into killing range whether you've got a DFG or not, and using R and Q is more likely to happen either when you're defending yourself in a teamfight (where DFG would arguably give you a chance to kill your opponent and live to send another rotation in the enemy team's faces) or when you're laning... and the augment cost does slow down your DFG buy, and hence the window in which you can use it before the laning phase ends.
What do our Viktor players here think?
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On September 10 2012 20:33 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 10:21 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I will be updating this thread eventually...just need to actually commit to it, and I'm lazy. ^ less moonflowers, more pew pew guide updating. Also, DFG range: 750. Q range: 600 R range: 700 Viktor's burst: around 2.6 AP ratio with Death augment and assuming people eat 2 ticks of Chaos Storm (does it tick immediatly, or starting a whole second after cast?), and 597 damage from R>E>Q>W @7 (assuming one point in W). That's a lot, but nothing like an assassin. Add in a DFG for ~29% of current health at the start of the burst, and it's suddenly way more likely to kill people. I'm not too sure about it as Viktor's just so good at harassing people with laser until they're brought into killing range whether you've got a DFG or not, and using R and Q is more likely to happen either when you're defending yourself in a teamfight (where DFG would arguably give you a chance to kill your opponent and live to send another rotation in the enemy team's faces) or when you're laning... and the augment cost does slow down your DFG buy, and hence the window in which you can use it before the laning phase ends. What do our Viktor player s here think?
shhh...
I haven't played TOO much with DFG, but the few times I have I didn't like it that much. Theoretically it should work - more burst, CDR, all of it is good. But yeah, what you said is partially true. The augment delays it and it kinda feels awkward delaying dcap even more as well, and you would have a Kage's instead of 2 DRings in lane, which leaves you more fragile while getting there.
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i have only tried him once, but i liked him.
prolly my next buy ^^
he is waay too underplayed
I originally had a pretty long post about viktor, then accidentally managed to delete the content.
I'll rewrite it once I had overcome my sorrow.
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On September 10 2012 21:11 Antyee wrote:
i have only tried him once, but i liked him.
prolly my next buy ^^
he is waay too underplayed
I originally had a pretty long post about viktor, then accidentally managed to delete the content.
I'll rewrite it once I had overcome my sorrow.
For as strong of a champion as he is, it is astounding that he is the 7th least played champ. I don't really mind, as long as Riot doesn't take that as a sign that he needs massive overhauls. He is almost perfectly fine the way he is, he's just gone unnoticed because many pros (including scarra) have very ignorantly said he's bad.
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DFG is good in an isolated situation, but considering viktors role as a zoner, and a poke, DFG is not critically important, but what is amazingly nice about DFG, is the CDR. Viktor has semi-long cd on his E, so cdr from DFG helps, but I could see going athenes unholy grail being more useful for viktor.
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The thing with DFG is it just doesn't fit. At least, not for the way I want to play Viktor. It's a great item, has stuff he wants (burst, CDR), but in the build it's awkward. You get Kage's early, and you're weaker in lane. Well that's not really what I want, I want to dominate my lane. It also delays your dcap and/or your augment (depending on how you decide to itemize it). Well that's not what I want either.
With Viktor, you need to translate early power into a mid-late game advantage. If you don't do that, you'll be struggling. The DFG build comes at not quite the right time and makes it weird.
That's not to say it doesn't work. If you can find a way that DFG really fits well, then awesome. For example, off the top of my head, it might be worth trying against Morgana. You can't really be entirely aggressive against Morg in lane, so all you can do is farm and try to win the early team fights. Unfortunately, the Kage's will still leave you fragile, but if you can match Morg's passivity, it might be worth it.
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On September 11 2012 01:02 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 21:11 Antyee wrote:
i have only tried him once, but i liked him.
prolly my next buy ^^
he is waay too underplayed
I originally had a pretty long post about viktor, then accidentally managed to delete the content.
I'll rewrite it once I had overcome my sorrow. For as strong of a champion as he is, it is astounding that he is the 7th least played champ. I don't really mind, as long as Riot doesn't take that as a sign that he needs massive overhauls. He is almost perfectly fine the way he is, he's just gone unnoticed because many pros (including scarra) have very ignorantly said he's bad.
I am PRETTY sure scarra thinks Viktor is ok. He even played him yesterday.
No I don't think he is fine. His augments are not balanced right now.
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On September 11 2012 10:52 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 01:02 jcarlsoniv wrote:On September 10 2012 21:11 Antyee wrote:
i have only tried him once, but i liked him.
prolly my next buy ^^
he is waay too underplayed
I originally had a pretty long post about viktor, then accidentally managed to delete the content.
I'll rewrite it once I had overcome my sorrow. For as strong of a champion as he is, it is astounding that he is the 7th least played champ. I don't really mind, as long as Riot doesn't take that as a sign that he needs massive overhauls. He is almost perfectly fine the way he is, he's just gone unnoticed because many pros (including scarra) have very ignorantly said he's bad. I am PRETTY sure scarra thinks Viktor is ok. He even played him yesterday. No I don't think he is fine. His augments are not balanced right now.
About a month ago scarra was explaining on stream that he didn't think Viktor was good. That could very well have changed since then. Still, there are no well known pros who stream frequently and play Viktor at a consistent basis for people to latch on.
Viktor's E augment is balanced. It allows him to be a burst mage and do it very well. His Q and W augments are lackluster, and I'm sure they are being looked at. I think the E augment should stay the same while the others are brought up to its relative power to offer more options.
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EPT
