EPT[Champion] Karthus - Page 10
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
100/133/166/200/233 On September 04 2012 07:57 CeriseCherries wrote: how do you play against mids with gap closer like kat/ahri/diana... cry and lose? In general: Don't wall offensively, ever, save your exhaust for an all-in and run MR blues+hp/level yellows if possible. For katarina/diana where their gap closer only gets them onto you. The moment they jump in, wall, turn on defile and spam Qs (This is one of the matchups where you want one point in wall and everything else into defile) Against katarina, if she shunpos and starts her ulti, exhaust immediately. Against Diana, you want to exhaust the moment she jumps onto you You'll want to grab a catalyst starting with the ruby crystal ASAP so that they can't kill you with an all-in. Against ahri. One of the hardest matchups next to kassadin for karthus. Just farm and harass ahri pre-6 if possible. If she spirit rushes, your first priority is dodging the charm and second is exhaust+walling her. Try to use your Qs right when she lands somewhere since there's a cooldown on her spirit rush that's longer than the explode time on your Q. This matchup essentially revolves around whether or not she hits you with her charm when she uses her ultimate. It's dangerous as karthus to try outpushing ahri since that invites her to hit you with Q so focus on farming wraiths/wolves and assisting through your ultimate. | ||
Decypher
United States37 Posts
I, personally, think that Karthus has not changed one bit. He still is the same late-game beast that farms for pretty much the first half of a match. I don't feel any of the new items apply to him much. I guess Liandry's Torment could(?) work in synergy with his E but I haven't tried it myself but other than that, I don't think Season 3 has affected him too much. The only thing that I can think of is the fact that AD bruisers invading the mid lane and I have played my handful of them myself. However, in my opinion, I think you just play karthus as the very passive mid laner, like he is. Mid laners like Panth , Talon, Riven rely on getting in your face through gap closers and if you are just way back just spamming your Q, you should have no problem. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Decypher
United States37 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:22 Slaughter wrote: I haven't played him much this season (played like 250 games in season 2) with him as I have been working on my supporting this season but so far this season I have built him similarly but he doesn't get as many easier/farmy lanes anymore. Plus this season I have sucked with him (lol down like 20% on my win rate with him). I completely read that wrong and I thought you said you were saying that you were starting to play Support Karthus and I had the biggest WTF face on. Well the thing is, I know this sounds pretty weird, but I FORCE my lane to be a farm lane. I don't do any auto attack harass/no harassing with Q at all. I even tell my jungler to not gank my lane because I know how passive of a lane it is. I know it has many faults that could happen, like THEIR jungler coming to gank, but most of the time it should work! | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
With the new penetration masteries, you can forego sorcerer's boots and go merc treads + get liandri's. Basically what I like doing is this: 9/0/21 masteries. Spell pen, armor, magic resist runes with spell vamp quints. Start boots + 3. On the first back, get a tear and a flask if you feel you need it (I personally like it in harder lanes, otherwise no point. I used to be a fan of buying more health pots as I came back to lane but not really a huge deal) In a really sustainy lane just get RoA and hextech into WoTA, same as ever really. If you can get kills go RoA or even just cata into the haunting guise. Situational/lategame are deathcap, zhonya's, abyssal, voidstaff, twin shadows, athene's, rylai's and that spectral wraith thing - really any AP item works, they're all dependent on the situation IMO. Against a really bursty AP I sometimes will even start null mantle 2 pots into chalice + mercs or abyssal, or just get the RoA and build the MR items afterward. I find rod of ages is too hard to pass up a lot of the time, given how much it gives you. In a really hard lane I wouldn't go tear. Against bursty champions I like exhaust over clarity, against sustain I like clarity. I play very aggressively as karthus, and it's not hard to do at all. You can last hit with your auto and harass with your q really easily, since if you are in the right position near the wave you can do both simultaneously. | ||
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Decypher
United States37 Posts
And I am going to have to disagree with your choice of going merc threads instead and mysteries. Why does a Karthus need merc threads? He doesn't need the tenacity and he doesn't need MR necessarily. Sorcerer's boots are good even if you already have penetration masteries. The more pentration the better  . As for your runes, spell vamp quints? I don't find spell vamp very important because his goal in a team fight is to just stand in the middle with his E up, Q people around you, and ult after you die. I guess spell vamp could maybe give you an extra 1-2 seconds to live but I do not think that would do much. Regarding this spell vamp thing, I would also question your choice of WoTA and hextech. Karthus doesn't need THAT MUCH spell vamp, none at all in my opinion. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
spell vamp quints give 9% spell vamp with utility tree masteries. If you hit a single target with level 3 lay waste, it means you will leech ~15 health. That's pretty significant; it means that just by last hitting you can negate some harass. 10 last hits and you have a free health pot. I don't find AP quints or magic pen quints to be that useful, given that they don't allow you to stay in lane, and don't help you farm either. Karthus doesn't have damage problems, he has survivability problems. You have all the damage in the world and I have very very rarely wished for that 15 more AP. For the same reason, I find merc treads are better on him in the new season, because the magic resist and tenacity helps you live longer. %pen was buffed but sorcerer's shoes were accordingly nerfed. Paying 750 g for 15 spell pen is a bit much IMO. Also with merc treads you can survive ganks more easily, and I find myself being ganked quite a lot as karthus; unlike mid laners like Ahri, Anivia, LB, Kennen, Vlad or TF etc. your only reliable escapes are flash and a slow. You're also just as squishy as any of them. Stuns and slows are pretty killer when it comes to your damage output too. Yeah, sure, the penetration helps with damage, but a lot of the times being stunned or slowed longer means that you won't be in range to get your damage off, or you'll be disabled when you could be hitting the guy with lay wastes. Also, the longer you live, the more damage you can do before you die. Sure, it's not a big deal if you die, but that doesn't mean you should simply aim to die in every fight. Magic resist items and spell vamp help you basically stand in the fight and soak up damage for longer. If you live even 2-3 seconds longer in a fight you'll be taking much more damage and attention, while potentially dealing more too. e: think about it, karthus is not a burst champion. He doesn't go in and just 100-0 people. He's supposed to stand in the middle of the fight and do damage over time; that's his strength. With that in mind, spell vamp is perfect for him. Also, WoTA is severely underrated since it benefits your whole team. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Decypher
United States37 Posts
I don't find anything wrong with his base damage, it's in a pretty good state. I agree with you on the wraiths though, they take a few more seconds to do but after you push your lane up, you use that time to do wraiths! | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
1. Health items cost more than they used to. 2. Negatron cloak magic resistance items are still not that good. 3. Seeker's armguard makes him able to cope with AD mids a lot more easily (if they're not named Kha'zix). I find that the combination of the first two points means that midgame, almost no one has much magic resistance, because it substantially slows down the completion of warmogs. This means you can more easily go tear/catalyst (for maximum lategame AP) and still be really strong mid game. Also, Seraph's and Zhonya's makes you a royal pain in the ass to kill if you use them well. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On January 05 2013 11:52 Sufficiency wrote: I think Karthus isn't played a lot anymore because his base damage is sort of meh (meh compared to his AP ratio) and mpen builds are the rage right now. Also the wraiths nerf hurts him really bad. Double damage Q's his ult and defile still hurts even with Mpen being all the rage tbh. | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
Also don't bother with the spellvamp/support build its awful, you deal 0 damage and still die instantly. I won't even talk about clarity l0l. The best build is still 21/0/9, mpen red, scaling ap yellow (or armor if bruiser mid), scaling ap blue, flat ap quint, roa, deathcap, zhonya<-> void staff, rilay. The only variation I can see is putting the new archangel somewhere but in most games you need catalyst asap, not tear. | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
The question here is about the next item to get after RoA; I've been thinking about putting deathcap after zhonya and maybe void staff (and maybe even a rylais just because of the extra health it gives you) simply because single-stat items like tear and deathcap aren't very good to rush for unless you somehow get a +1000 gold advantage 10 minutes into the game. Even if tear does upgrade into something better, it takes over 20+ minutes to get there, and that's 20+ minutes of investment towards an item that has little/no use for you if you have a RoA. Not to mention it puts you at -700 gold for a decent amount of time as well. I've also replaced my AP mid seals with scaling health rather than mana regen or scaling AP because I feel like every bit of health, esp for squishes, is extremely important now. And with the rise of AD mids, I've found that taking tele/flash and making the lane super passive is the best way to go, using tele to gank bot or to get back to lane if you're doing poorly. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
I go flask/3 pots into tear/catalyst/sorc shoes/RoA/Deathcap/Archangel's (which is a Seraph's by the time you get there, usually). After that it depends, but I usually skip Rylai's because I don't feel like it helps that much unless its against a highly mobile team. Some combination of Zhonya's/Abyssal's Scepter/Liandry's/Void Staff usually rounds out the rest. Aside from that, same masteries/runes that RouaF mentioned. I wouldn't underestimate an early tear though, once you get Seraph's you get a shield for ~750 health if you're at max mana, which increases your durability substantially. | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
It applies incredible amounts of pressure in your lane against melees, allowing you to sit inside your creeps and play much more aggressively than most people expect a karthus to be able to. Interesting way to play and completely worth it once you learn it. It's especially good against khazix, zed and jayce level 1 as I've found. | ||
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