EPTCommunity Feedback Update - July 17 - Page 7
| Forum Index > Legacy of the Void |
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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91matt
United Kingdom147 Posts
On July 21 2015 06:08 Big J wrote: Seriously, the liberator creates a bad dynamic. Half of the time I can take them down without them doing anything at all, the other half of the time I leave the game without taking a single combat because my opponent overlapped his circles properly. Even with the current range-bug, their range (as in, how far the unit can be from its targeting area) and their damage are way too high but the circle is probably too small to make it not so devastating. It just doesn't feel good playing against them. They are clearly broken, tvz is unplayable right now vs anyone good. However the saddest thing I feel is they're going to complete remove mutas from tvz and does anybody really want that? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 21 2015 06:14 Matt` wrote: They are clearly broken, tvz is unplayable right now vs anyone good. However the saddest thing I feel is they're going to complete remove mutas from tvz and does anybody really want that? Played mutalisks for 5years, wouldn't be sad if they weren't the nonplusultra in ZvT for once and the game wasn't completely balanced around whether they can snowball or not. They feel pretty strong right now, but I'm having somewhat of an succes at the moment if I rush out roach/ravager type of play. Pretty good against the liberator rushes, good basis for anti-mech play in general. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9376 Posts
I find Adepts to be meh'ish. Dropping speedlings in enemy base is pretty neat, but I can't help but compare all types of dropplay with Medivac drops and it's just so much more satisfying when you can do pickup micro. The bit I played with Liberators I didn't particularly enjoy them (could be wrong here though) and Cyclones are obviously cancer. . I doubt anyone coming back from their MOBA's and giving LOTV a chance is gonna have fun. That's unless they are determined to get good at the game, because if you are just coming in with the attitude of "playing a couple of games to have fun" --> You won't have fun. Its mainly the lack of early game defenders advantage that is so problematic in this game. And I can't bother spending time learning proper builds as there is no real reward in sight. By that I mean that there aren't any late game interactions/dynamic that seems awesome (a real mech style could have been awesome). Then I check games from tournaments to find "inspiration" and I just see bad game after game. | ||
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91matt
United Kingdom147 Posts
On July 21 2015 06:28 Big J wrote: Played mutalisks for 5years, wouldn't be sad if they weren't the nonplusultra in ZvT for once and the game wasn't completely balanced around whether they can snowball or not. They feel pretty strong right now, but I'm having somewhat of an succes at the moment if I rush out roach/ravager type of play. Pretty good against the liberator rushes, good basis for anti-mech play in general. I dont see how that would be good against any high level player, the thing with the liberator rush is they already have a starport with reactor ready to transition into bio play, and also the factory that made the reactor can make a tech lab and get out tanks. Dealing with the liberator rushes completely gimps zerg builds gives you a godlike unit and transitions perfectly into either mech or bio. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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BartCraft
Netherlands45 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9376 Posts
On July 21 2015 07:04 BartCraft wrote: oh god the whiners are back, plz i would like it so much if some people could just shut up instead of always complaining about what they don't like. Blizz is not forcing you to buy it, and they stated that just whine about stuff is not usefull in any way. I don't think you understand what feedback is. I definitely fit the target group that could buy LOTV (I am in the former Sc2 player that switched to MOBA's). Only listening to the feedback of those who are going to play Sc2 no matter what and will love the game no what is definitely not the best appraoch. Also your comment is ironically stupid as noone is forcing you to respond to "whiners". Complaining about complainers gives no value besides wasting time. On the other hand providing specific reasoning for why you won't buy the product is another discussion. | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
its not the "imbalances" that make the game not fun. consider other games like Hots Lol or dota. They all have a "strongest" or imbalanced hero at any given point. Sc2 is at its core, the most hardcore. bare bone and anti social video game available. Youre pitched against one opponent. If you lose, you know that its your fault. You cant blame teammates or RNG like in other games. In Hearthstone, losing hurts a lot less because "oh the RNG", in HotS, that one teammate that gave them exp just sucked and thats why you lost. People dont want to blame themselves, and that makes this game very stressful. Dont give blizzard a hard time because you think its garbage and you lost to adept rushes. | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
On July 21 2015 06:44 mishimaBeef wrote: i'm thinking lurkers make it kind of tough for terran to stay active against big muta balls... considering their main tool was packs of marines, that can now get shredded, i guess blizzard figures they need a new tool in the liberator? It looks like bio isn't viable against Z in a long, full tech game. Lurker / Ultra straight dump on bio builds. And bio has a harder time with mutas compared to the strong anti muta tools available to mech builds (Liberator / Thor). Considering how strong Liberator / Cyclone pushes are, I don't see a good reason to keep making marines when the enemy has serious tech units out. I feel like this is probably a good direction for the game overall. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On July 21 2015 07:24 weikor wrote: Ok so since this is turning into a big "whats not fun about sc" whine, id like to point out that - to most players starcraft will never be "fun" to ladder with. its not the "imbalances" that make the game not fun. consider other games like Hots Lol or dota. They all have a "strongest" or imbalanced hero at any given point. Sc2 is at its core, the most hardcore. bare bone and anti social video game available. Youre pitched against one opponent. If you lose, you know that its your fault. You cant blame teammates or RNG like in other games. In Hearthstone, losing hurts a lot less because "oh the RNG", in HotS, that one teammate that gave them exp just sucked and thats why you lost. People dont want to blame themselves, and that makes this game very stressful. Dont give blizzard a hard time because you think its garbage and you lost to adept rushes. It's a beta. Blizzard explicitely said that they want to have feedback from people who play the game. I play the game every day at a quite a decent level. I gave my feedback. You can agree with it or not, but basically telling me to fuck off with what I write and why I write it is plainly garbage. | ||
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IceBerrY
Germany220 Posts
He creates space, sure, but its kind of boring and this role should be done by the siege tank. As somebody mentioned, his position is incredible important, but once they are placed well its really hard to counter them.. Also the skin is terrible, but that isn´t priority right now. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9376 Posts
Ok so since this is turning into a big "whats not fun about sc" whine, id like to point out that - to most players starcraft will never be "fun" to ladder with. But I don't agree it has to be like that. I think you can genuinly make a game that is easier to learn and maintain the good parts of the game (or make it even better). Honestly I never realized - before I came back from MOBA's - how frustrating/boring the game is. When I was playing the game on a daily basis from 2010-2011, I always thought about how I could improve. With that mentality you actually completely ignore design flaws in the game as you see all types of frustrations/obstacles as something that you just need to learn. By the end of WOL everyone was so tired of the passiveness/deathballnies of the game and the selling point of HOTS (for me) was the speedmedivac as it actually allowed me to play a Maru'ish playstyle. But let's look at LOTV from my perspective. For protoss, the only real improvement imo is the Disruptor that is more fun to use than the Colossus, but protoss is still not a race I enjoy. For terran, I didn't find the new units very fun and the playstyle seems similar. Thus it feels like a new learning barrier without any potential benefits (perhaps the Liberator could proove me I am wrong. At least I am observing how this unit will fit into the meta). I can see some selling points for zerg once the game gets properly balanced as Ravagers, Lurkers and Overlord drops can be fun, and moving shot on Mutas is great too. If I see some really awesome zerg games in tournaments, I might consider trying to learn the race. So what would be a selling point for me (as a terran?). I want a "true" mech style where you can have tanks all over the map, do light harass and the enemy should be able to trade with you --> to be viable. If this type of dynamic was possible in LOTV, I could see through the hopeless learning barrier. I would be willing to die to all types of stupid stuff as I would improve in the proces. And in the end, if I got good enough I would be able to play this "true mech"-style really well and I think that would be fun. But when the only reason to play LOTV is a fast-paced experience, I might as well play HOTS. People dont want to blame themselves, and that makes this game very stressful. Ever had some of those games where you lost but still felt like it was a pretty cool/fun game? I actually have had many of them. Probably at least half of my TvZ games in HOTS were awesome as they contained constant action and fun micro. That's not to say that I didn't balance whine after the games, but the experience was clearly different from how I feel about LOTV right now. Alot of people will respond to that by saying that buildorder-loses are part of the game and you have to learn how to deal with it. Indeed, that's the right mentality if you want to improve as a player, but does that mean that LOTV is only for those people who want to continously improve? It feels like Blizzard (wrongly) has assumed that there only are two groups who could play Starcraft: 1. Casuals who should play singleplayer, archon mode and allied commander. 2. Competitive players who like the high learning barrier and mechanical requirements. But If only the above two target groups existed, LOL and DOTA wouldn't have millions of players playing a competitive multiplayer game. All I actually want is to play a couple of games once in a while and have fun, I don't want to touch singleplayer and I rather not rely on teammates. And I think I share that goal with alot of other people that you may not hear a lot from because they probably aren't posting anymore on TL. | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On July 21 2015 07:24 weikor wrote: Ok so since this is turning into a big "whats not fun about sc" whine, id like to point out that - to most players starcraft will never be "fun" to ladder with. its not the "imbalances" that make the game not fun. consider other games like Hots Lol or dota. They all have a "strongest" or imbalanced hero at any given point. Sc2 is at its core, the most hardcore. bare bone and anti social video game available. Youre pitched against one opponent. If you lose, you know that its your fault. You cant blame teammates or RNG like in other games. In Hearthstone, losing hurts a lot less because "oh the RNG", in HotS, that one teammate that gave them exp just sucked and thats why you lost. People dont want to blame themselves, and that makes this game very stressful. Dont give blizzard a hard time because you think its garbage and you lost to adept rushes. This is a very interesting post, from a psychological perspective it's worth just being aware of a dynamic like this. I've had my fair share of rage from playing hots and just trying to "get better." I think it definitely hit on my self-worth, "If I try my best and can't make it to some league, what's wrong with me?" Idk, just tossing some of my personal experience out there. What had me playing sc2 in the first place was the amount of FUN I had with it, and the awesome feeling of winning my first game! (That was a challenge). I honestly think LOTV is a funner game than HOTS. 1 game is also not the investment it was in HOTS (30 to 60 min), it's over pretty quick and if I lose no big deal I just play again with a different strat. That being said, I am really enjoying heroes of the storm right now. Having a hard time going to play sc2 beta because I would rather play that, which is strange... I never liked mobas. Hardcore sc2 fan here. I do think there is truth to the negative aspects of an antisocial game (1v1). This has me excited for archon mode, more people to play the traditional 1v1 style of rts. Quite a brilliant mode the more I consider it. Speaking to why I'm into heroes now... Maybe it's nice to blame my teamies...  They like to blame me! | ||
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Hider
Denmark9376 Posts
I do think there is truth to the negative aspects of an antisocial game (1v1). This argument is frequently used, but I honestly think it confuses correlation with causation. The reason I believe is so due to the average social soloq experience is utterly terrible. Hence why Blizzard almost promotes you to use the "mute all button". I think MOBA's are succesful despite the teamplay and not because of it. Sure if you have some friends you can que up with it differs, but from my experience more than 50% of the people who play the game are soloquers. Instead, I think what Heroes of the Storm does well is to allow you to focus on the fun part of the game --> Teamfights where you control your hero. The learning barrier is pretty low and more forgiving than in Sc2. If you misposition yourself in the early game or picks the "wrong" talent, the game still continues. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24193 Posts
On July 23 2015 07:14 mishimaBeef wrote: So... when's a safe time to give up on that protoss update for today? THEY DID IT | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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