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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On July 19 2015 19:53 StarscreamG1 wrote: I wish they change the lurker attack sound. The BW sound was scary as hell, lotv sound...I can't even hear them when I'm being attacked by the spines :\ GOOD IDEA! | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
As many of you already know, these are the main goals that our team has for Legacy of the Void:
I don't like these goals whatsoever and I think it's leading to questionable design choices. For example, having played with and against the Adept's ability it seems more anti-micro than anything else. It's like they just want to add a bunch of abilities and expect that will automatically create more micro possibilities, which isn't the case. Then they make it so you start with 12 workers, which eliminates a lot of the skill needed to macro properly in the very early game. New ways to show off skill. You mean new ways to show off skill to the uneducated spectators who have no appreciation for the finer, mostly unobservable points of managing a sc economy. They're catering to the spectator, not to the player. | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On July 20 2015 02:06 TheFish7 wrote: Then they make it so you start with 12 workers, which eliminates a lot of the skill needed to macro properly in the very early game. That's debatable. Spamming the build worker key doesn't take much skill. People get so bored they invented drone stacking to squeeze some level of efficiency out of that first minute. The amount of return of something like that is minimal. It does take skill to scout and build workers at the same time, but that happens in LOTV. The HOTS early game was boring for almost everyone (imo), that's why we have casting rants, cause there is nothing to talk about for the first 5 in game minutes. Minus cheese of course, but even that isn't much to talk about. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On July 20 2015 02:06 TheFish7 wrote: I don't like these goals whatsoever and I think it's leading to questionable design choices. For example, having played with and against the Adept's ability it seems more anti-micro than anything else. It's like they just want to add a bunch of abilities and expect that will automatically create more micro possibilities, which isn't the case. How exactly is it anti-micro? Then they make it so you start with 12 workers, which eliminates a lot of the skill needed to macro properly in the very early game. As ShambalaWar said, no it doesn't. There's not much you can do other than make workers and/or cheese, and there will be new cheeses you can do at 12 supply. New ways to show off skill. You mean new ways to show off skill to the uneducated spectators who have no appreciation for the finer, mostly unobservable points of managing a sc economy. They're catering to the spectator, not to the player. And what's wrong with that? Nobody's going to be hyped for a game because he managed to go the whole way without supply blocking himself. It's going to be because they have awesome blink micro, or they're defending at home while counterattacking with a drop in the enemy main, or something of that nature. And more of that is great for entertainment, which SC2 ultimately is. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
On July 20 2015 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: As ShambalaWar said, no it doesn't. There's not much you can do other than make workers and/or cheese, and there will be new cheeses you can do at 12 supply. That's only because the design of SC2 dictates that there is nothing worth doing during that time frame. That is part of the problem and all they're doing is covering that up by eliminating the very early game altogether. In WoL you used to be able to 1 base, not anymore. Now you can't cheese either. Why even bother with macro, just start everybody off with 3 bases and 11 supply depots. And what's wrong with that? Nobody's going to be hyped for a game because he managed to go the whole way without supply blocking himself. It's going to be because they have awesome blink micro, or they're defending at home while counterattacking with a drop in the enemy main, or something of that nature. And more of that is great for entertainment, which SC2 ultimately is. Because it's a step in the wrong direction. They're making the RTS genre more like a moba or an rpg game and ignoring the fundamentals. How exactly is it anti-micro? Invulnerability? | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On July 20 2015 04:36 TheFish7 wrote: That's only because the design of SC2 dictates that there is nothing worth doing during that time frame. That is part of the problem and all they're doing is covering that up by eliminating the very early game altogether. In WoL you used to be able to 1 base, not anymore. Now you can't cheese either. Why even bother with macro, just start everybody off with 3 bases and 11 supply depots. What else would you like to do during those 2 minutes? What else would you like to see? If that's a problem, what is the solution? You can still 1 base. You can 4 gate ridiculously early now. Double proxy stargate vs. Terran. 3 rax reaper might become a thing, who knows. They have bombs and you have money. And why are you so fixated on them removing macro? They removed the part of the game where even elfi pushes a key on his keyboard then looks around his booth for 15 seconds. Macro is still the same. Because it's a step in the wrong direction. They're making the RTS genre more like a moba or an rpg game and ignoring the fundamentals. The core RTS tenets are all there. The one thing you could maybe argue is that taking a base is now a decision like when to put down a factory or when to get your spire. And part of RTS's is, after all, army and unit control. You do realize you can still shoot the adept's regular form, right? And catch it when it teleports? | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
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fruity.
England1711 Posts
On July 20 2015 02:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Stuff.. You got burned by that sig bet huh | ||
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
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Ovid
United Kingdom948 Posts
On July 20 2015 06:31 JacobShock wrote: I am absolutely clueless about how to deal with liberators, I can hold the first hellbat/liberator push quite easily, but when terran starts massing them, I am absolutely helpless. I have tried with the sickest muta splits, hydras, and the only thing that seems to work is vipers and corruptors, but I have to have hive and corruptors as we all know have zero utility against ground, so yeah, any help is appreciated. Spore crawlers can't be targeted by the Liberator ground attack, good creep spread coupled with spores does decently because of the ground attack morphing time Hydralisk are pretty good vs them, Vipers are very good with the Parasitic bomb when they go mass Liberator. The key is to limit the bases they can take, Liberators are expensive limit the income and you win vs that style. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
^_^ | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On July 20 2015 04:36 TheFish7 wrote: And what's wrong with that? Nobody's going to be hyped for a game because he managed to go the whole way without supply blocking himself. It's going to be because they have awesome blink micro, or they're defending at home while counterattacking with a drop in the enemy main, or something of that nature. And more of that is great for entertainment, which SC2 ultimately is. Because it's a step in the wrong direction. They're making the RTS genre more like a moba or an rpg game and ignoring the fundamentals. I always think it's interesting when someone says they are making sc2 into a moba. Shouldn't an rts game resemble a moba game? This makes sense considering moba games were born from rts games. | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
There will always be HOTS :D I posted once "Listen to Korean Pro - Rain" regarding the widow mine buff and how it would TAKE AWAY tech paths, lo and behold, it did. Did they listen to Rain ? no. Was he right ? Yes. Listen to the Korean community, that has the highest skilled players, what better advice is there ? | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
On July 20 2015 02:44 ShambhalaWar wrote: That's debatable. Spamming the build worker key doesn't take much skill. People get so bored they invented drone stacking to squeeze some level of efficiency out of that first minute. The amount of return of something like that is minimal. It does take skill to scout and build workers at the same time, but that happens in LOTV. The HOTS early game was boring for almost everyone (imo), that's why we have casting rants, cause there is nothing to talk about for the first 5 in game minutes. Minus cheese of course, but even that isn't much to talk about. I like the down-time at the start. For example, you may of just played an epic game just before, it's nice to have a slower pace at the beginning that builds up. Nice to 'settle-in' , rather than go crazy mode from start to finish. Caster ranting at start is fun imho, nice social aspect before the main action starts up, good variety. I prefer HOTS opening atm. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On July 20 2015 17:43 Parcelleus wrote: I like the down-time at the start. For example, you may of just played an epic game just before, it's nice to have a slower pace at the beginning that builds up. Nice to 'settle-in' , rather than go crazy mode from start to finish. Caster ranting at start is fun imho, nice social aspect before the main action starts up, good variety. I prefer HOTS opening atm. I've had the opposite feedback from my friends playing/watching SC2. For the longest time it's just minerals being mined. Sure there's good stuff later on, but it's not the most entertaining start. I have the same problem with MOBAs, yes you need the heroes to level before anything happens, but a minute 30 of buying and getting into position, and then another 3-ish minutes where nothing usually happens (unless there's some invade, which I guess is the analogue to a proxy or cannon rush) isn't too entertaining either. | ||
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atrox_
United Kingdom1711 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17815 Posts
On July 20 2015 02:06 TheFish7 wrote: I don't like these goals whatsoever and I think it's leading to questionable design choices. i don't think these goals are going to change. you may be able to change Blizzard's balance tweaking or the role of an individual unit in the game. i don't think Blizzard is changing direction on core values behind the direction of the game.. especially with teh game coming out this winter. Here is a video of a guy who went to the Community Summit discussed in the OP for a little different perspective on Blizzard's development of an RTS game this video only adds to my belief that BLizzard is doing a great job with LotV... and LotV will be really really good. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
That way it could be actually good against lurkers, the unit that Protoss struggles the most against. And maybe decent against ultras too while we are at it. Protoss has enough (and better, more interesting) AOE damage in the disruptor and storm. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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