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David Kim has provided us with additional thoughts on many of the issues the community has brought up. Source.
"As we mentioned before, we’d like to provide our thoughts on areas that we’ve looked into this week based on community suggestions. Before we get into the details, we’d like to point out while we try our best to hit majority of the big topics, it’ll be impossible to cover every single topic every time. The goal here is to discuss big issues with you guys, and continue doing so over time. With this first post, we’re covering a few more topics than we might typically cover in a normal update. However, we think this is a good way to kick off these updates.
We’d like to also make it as clear as possible that game design is not about implementing every idea that the majority thinks is correct, it’s about finding the key ideas that will be best for the game. So we’ll do our best to keep an open mind on topics and even if we’re currently thinking that we won’t try something out, we’ll keep it as part of our regular discussions if those issues keep being brought up by the community. Please also try your best to do this as well, and remember it’s not about how many people say something, and it’s not about bandwagoning onto the loudest idea. It’s about trying to look at issues from every angle possible to make sure it is in fact what’s best for our game. Just as an example, internally in design meetings we try our best to detach ourselves from every idea. Even if I’ve suggested something, I try my best to analyze how it might be bad. This way, I can focus on the specific idea and if it’s the correct move for the game, rather than pushing for the idea just because I thought of something I think is awesome.
Here are our thoughts on many of the bigger community discussions this past week:
Flying unit separation radius
- We agree that when you are controlling larger numbers of air units, it’s difficult to do the moving shot micro.
- This requires a code fix, and we’re currently exploring and testing something that we can add to the beta soon.
Making all damage points to zero for air units
- One of the reasons we don’t have a default damage point of zero is so that the timing of micro has to be mastered by players. Just making it zero will mean microing is just much easier, which is probably not the direction we want to go.
- We generally don’t make extreme changes that alter so many things at once, due to the side effects these changes can cause. Changing every single air unit’s damage point is not something we’d like to explore, but we’d be open to specific air unit damage point changes if the change makes sense.
- With a damage point of zero, a unit that is facing its target can immediately move away after being issued the attack order. With the default damage point, the player must instead time their movement to happen after the attack is performed. An example of where this is pushed even further is the Hellion, which has a higher than normal damage point. The unique timing required for this unit requires additional mastery, which makes it more impressive when pros are able to be so effective with them. Since the suggested goal of the change is to have more interesting micro, in this specific case, we wonder if what we currently have is more interesting micro than the proposed changes.
Siege Tank /Immortal turret tracking
- This sounds like a very minor change that probably won’t have a huge impact. However, because many players believe this will be of great help, so we’ll test it fairly quickly internally, then put the change in also in the beta. So you can expect this change to go into the beta soon.
Community resourcing model suggestion
- We also watched show matches, tried games ourselves, and we agree with the majority of you guys that it’s too similar to Heart of the Swarm. But we wanted to comment again on this because it’s still a topic discussed by some.
- Just to reiterate once more, we’re not looking to make minor tweaks in this area. We’re looking for a big change that will make sure that players will spread out their expansions at a much faster rate than they do in Heart of the Swarm.
- Currently, the resourcing model that we’re testing in the beta is doing a very good job of this.
Ranked play in the beta
- We hear your feedback and agree that it’ll be good to enable ranked play.
- We may not be able to do this right away as we’ll need to introduce this with a client patch and can’t use the same method we use for the balance update which is done through publishing.
- Due to the feedback we’ve seen on this topic, we’ve currently scheduled to enable ranked play in the beta with the next client patch.
Disruptor being too all-or-nothing
- We agree with you guys here. The optimal case looks too strong, and when you miss with a hit it seems like the Disruptor is killed too easily at such a high cost investment.
- We’ve been trying various things in this area for a while now, but this is where we’re at right now:
- Much lower radius (this is the biggest change + Disruptors look too underpowered right now in our testing)
- Lower cost
- Faster speed when activated
- Less delay before firing
- Overall, it looks like we have a decent solve for the case of a single hit ending games often.
- We believe the next step in this area is to test out changes that would allow players to more easily save and reuse the Disruptors. This way, we can solve the issue where a miss creates a high chance of the game being over.
We’d also like to comment on some topics that we found interesting this week. Again, please keep in mind just because we don’t mention something here, it doesn’t mean we haven’t read it. While it’s impossible to read every single post that comes up every day, we do try our best and can tell you that we read a big majority of the things you guys bring up.
- Adept micro tips video was very cool.
- It was a very good example of relaying more info on something new, so that players in the beta can better test new units.
- It would definitely be more cool to see more tips on new units videos, because we believe faster we have the majority of beta testers ramped up with new units, the more high quality beta testing we will have going forward.
There was a post asking if players want battles to last much longer. Our thoughts are that the current pace feels really good, and we were happy to see that most players didn’t want battles to last longer in StarCraft II. "
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I actually like the disruptor changes. Also having rank pretty soon is really huge
and necessary to get the pro´s playing lotv.
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Really nice update, can't believe they are finally touching a lot of important topics from the depth of micro video  . Overall everything said here seems awesome!
I still hope Blizzard finds a way that a player with 66 workers on 5 bases has more income than a player with 66 workers on 3 bases!
Oh and is the Liberator buggy or not?
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wow i didnt expect that. keep it coming
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Disruptors with lower radius hmm. Without a big impact they don't seem very useful.
Really good feedback though. Agree with the majority of what he states.
Also, tank turret tracking woohoo
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On June 20 2015 03:08 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Community resourcing model suggestion - [...] We’re looking for a big change that will make sure that players will spread out their expansions at a much faster rate than they do in Heart of the Swarm.
- Currently, the resourcing model that we’re testing in the beta is doing a very good job of this.
Wait what? It is doing a good job right now?
I didn't get that impression thus far.
And I'm not sure whether the majority of the players are happy with the "gun to your head"-model...
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Really nice post from blizzard, but i think they should realise that with the current Lotv economic model the 3 base cap is still a thing, you expand just to reach 3 base optimal saturation when your bases ran out of minerals, and it forces the immobile race (Protoss) to expand at a time when none of their critical tech has been completed or it doesnt have enough units to spread out in multiple bases. Expanding should be a choice and not a must !
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Very good post! This is what most people probably want from you! Even if we disagree, at least we get to hear some reasoning behind decisions. WP David Kim!
One thing though.
"There was a post asking if players want battles to last much longer. Our thoughts are that the current pace feels really good, and we were happy to see that most players didn’t want battles to last longer in StarCraft II."
That is BS! Since the start of Sc2 this has been a problem; for LOTV you decided to try fixes for this (as you anounced at Blizzcon with the longer attack times); Just because you failed to find a solution does not make the pace "feel good". It's a major problem for SC2 from a play level to a spectator level. If you can't fix the terrible terrible dmg design fine, but don't pretend all is fine.
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Must've been on reddit and TL the past few weeks. The negativity has been at an all time high, for sure.
Still, guess I'm glad, as it's nice to actually hear them speak about the game.
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I'm very critical about the game but i have to say once more that the way Blizzard acts in regards to SC2 since LOTV is 100x better then ever before. If we had this kind of communication and vision since the beginning we would have had a much better game and most likely a different landscape.
I guess that no matter how good the current team is it's impossible to fix all the inherited problems.
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Liberator.... working as planned... or so it seems now xD
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China6331 Posts
On June 20 2015 03:35 Sapphire.lux wrote:
I'm very critical about the game but i have to say once more that the way Blizzard acts in regards to SC2 since LOTV is 100x better then ever before. If we had this kind of communication and vision since the beginning we would have had a much better game and most likely a different landscape.
I guess that no matter how good the current team is it's impossible to fix all the inherited problems.
They act fast because of recent backlashes.
Also are they really thinking the current resource system is doing a good job?
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I hope they decrease the cost and delay on disruptors. they seem just so expensive right now.
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On June 20 2015 03:27 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Very good post! This is what most people probably want from you! Even if we disagree, at least we get to hear some reasoning behind decisions. WP David Kim!
people grossly underestimate how good a company Blizzard is because they get lost in the forest of some small SC2 issue.
they can't see the forest through the trees.
to counter people unhappy with the resource gathering system.
i would like to take this post to state that i am happy with the resource gathering system.
if Blizzard can make it better then fine. But, i like its structure right now.
great work by DK, as usual.
On June 20 2015 03:24 Nezgar wrote:
And I'm not sure whether the majority of the players are happy with the "gun to your head"-model...
welcome to C&C style expanding ... i think its fucking awesome.
they should start calling the minerals Tiberium
i never hated the HotS resource model, however, i think the LotV model is better.
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I do not necessarily agree with all that's said in this update but you gotta say; This fast response is really nice to see.
Props.
Also: Depth of micro video was not in vain Lalush!
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Good job DK, see what an hour or research and typing will do for the community? Everyone will be nice and happy now.
The trick is to do this every month or every 3 weeks, consistency is key with communication, while I'm sure nobody expects a detailed update every week, asking for one every month really shouldn't be a problem, this is a beta, it needs constant feedback.
On the Disruptor, gradient (is this the correct word?) the Nova radius to increase counter micro while not making it useless, and maybe just make the speed boost last for even 2 seconds after it explodes, that way at least for those 2 seconds, the Disruptor has an easier chance of escaping without a Warp Prism nearby.
Its a good unit, it's just lopsided because it can't escape, give her some basic escape opportunities and make the blast a tad bit less punishing and this unit will feel awesome.
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the frequency of the patches is coming in hot and heavy.
i hope people realize how expensive it is for Blizzard to do this and that substantial resources are being dedicated to the game... it makes sense that it is full box price.
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United States30730 Posts
Very interesting. Seems the beta might finally be picking up some steam.
Hopefully they see the light of day and revert the 8 armor ultralisk.
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So Blizzard is completely ok with a resource model that nerfs protoss? How can they be happy with that? Also, limiting micro does not equal interesting micro. That's a terrible way to look at things, imo. JaeDong was the Muta micro god in bw because the game allowed for it. The current model doesn't allow for such things to happen. There is something wrong with the game's potential for micro when the game's most exciting micro is when a player runs away and splits his or her army into as small chunks as possible. I like some of the changes they're going forward with like the turret for immortals/tanks, but that switch is long overdue and the videos addressing these problems are months to years old by now. Better late than never, I guess
EDIT: fixed some grammar/spelling errors
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