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the previous post with the guy polemicizing about WoW has taken this "discussion" into reductio ad absurdum territory and i've proven my point.
on another note,
On June 08 2015 10:48 captainwaffles wrote:
Secondly- In addition to more radical changes being tested we really need to strengthen the communication between the developers and the community, Psione- you're awesome mate but ultimately you're a middle man relaying messages. Blizzard please just talk to us and let us know whats going on as to why you're doing or not doing things. For example skins, design decisions etc. which brings me to my third point...
.....I'm making this post to convey what I know a lot of people in the community are feeling and to hopefully get blizzards attention.
here is the response to that
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18132606976#1
if we're being promised smaller more frequent communication bursts then picking apart some Blizz employee for using a double negative in his comments is just polemics.
with less formal communication expect more grammar errors. i can easily tolerate a few grammar errors when the benefit is more frequent communication.
Blizzard's expansion packs are flat-out, end-of-story, no-doubt the best in the industry precisely because their feedback loop with its players is fantastic.
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On June 12 2015 22:07 AlphaAeffchen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Hi@ all,
this is my first post on TeamLiquid. Im 34 years old. I played BW and switched to SC 2. Im in Diamond. I played SC2 since the beginning. I think BW had his time, but you all have to realize that SC2 is not BW 2.0. The way Blizzard took was the right one! You cant just copy BW and say cool we have a new great RTS. It makes me really sad how the most people on TL think about SC 2 and especially about LotV.
1. The economy
I have a beta key and play Lotv all the time. The economy change is great! We dont need double harvesting. I know that you are forced to expand and this is the only way to play the game (except for rushes or all ins). You have to realize that this is the best way to play this game. You have more fights all over the map. Ist pure fun. You cry there is not so much diversity because we are getting punished when we not keep expanding. Diversity comes from the style how you play the game with the pressure to expand! This is the best way to play the game! It is fast and the deversity comes from the battles all over the map and how you react to it. The game itself doesnt get better, when you get more options to play the game. This is an Illusion. In LotV we now have a great economy war and multiple battles. If we sacrefice therefore a few defensive playstyles ist absolutly ok.
2. The Units
Terran: The cyclone is fun to play. Ist an innovative unit and makes mech more viable (i played mech in most SC 2 games). Im not sure about the Liberator. I need to test this unit more.
Zerg: Both Units are well designed. I dont understand why People complain about it.
Protoss: The idea of the Adept is nice, he needs some tweaking but ist a cool unit and fun to play. I dont like the distrupter so much because it overlaps with banelings a little bit. I think it would be better to get the reaver back from BW.
I like most of the unit design in SC 2 and especially in Lotv. In broodwar are many units that you wont use at all in multiplayer battles( Scout...Queens.....) but no one talks about that.
Also SC 2 is not dying. Ist smaller yes. But this has to do with our next generation. The most young people want to play easier games like Mobas. Dont blame SC2 as game for it. Playing Starcraft (BW or SC 2) is very hard and stressfull (i love it). But many People dont like it to have so much stress when they play games. It has nothing to do with SC2. It would be the same in BW (they are both Korean dominated). We have an E-Sport Scene. The Scene is small but the scene is constant and will grow when SC2 Lotv gets released. But it will not reach the level of Mobas. But this is not bad. SC2 will stay as competitive E-Sport title (but it will be Korean dominated as it was in BW, for me thats not such a big Problem because i like to play the game).
SC2 will stay very long after LotV is released until there will be the next competitive RTS (if there will ever be an another one). And i tell you one thing. The only good competitive RTS games are from Blizzard (BW, WC3,SC2). There was AoE 3 and supreme commander but they could not compete with the Blizzard titles especially not in E-Sport!!!!
Ist ridicoules how you talk about SC2 here. Since the game was released the most people on TL were shitstorming about it. Oh we have unlimited unit and building selection this destroys the game (hello we are not in the 90s anymore), gameplay in BW was better....The gameplay in SC 2 is different from BW and thats good. I like the style to play SC 2 more than BW. Most People here were shitstorming about the game because they expected BW 2.0. Im very happy that this was not the case. SC 2 is still fresh and new and the best RTS on the market.
All you can do here is complaining and whinig about LotV. You have no clue about good game design. Also Rotterdam Kevin van der Koy (SC 2 Caster) said that he hates how people talk about Blizzard when they try something new in LotV. The game is fun. Pro Gamers like the changes in LotV. Blizzard communicates with them and i hope that they will never intoduce double harvesting (this would destroy the good gameplay in LotV).
The most People here on TL will never be happy with SC2 because the only thing they want is BW. The community here makes me sad and angry. You never gave SC 2 a real chance. When i talk to People that play LotV in game i always hear that they like LotV.
I thank Dustin Browder and David Kim for this awesome game and their great work for Starcraft!!!
I agree with a lot of what you said... because they are good points, not just because I'm also 34 and played BW 
Hopefully the new commitment from Blizzard to communicate better will help morale around here. I especially agree that it's important to recognize that although the devs aren't perfect, they are putting in a lot of effort on our behalf.
Welcome to TL!
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I haven't had beta for a long time, but so far LoTV is super fun, to the point that I have arguments with my wife who wants me to play 2v2 HoTS (teamgames not available in LoTV beta yet) but I would rather play LoTV. Also the rest of SC2 has been absolutely marvelous for me for the last couple of years, it's really one of the greatest things in my life.
Honesly, the only thing I dislike about SC2 and it's developement is that those big changes are so few and far between, I would gladly pay $60 every year to get a new expansion with slightly different something because it's just so much fun to try new things. Buy I guess that everyone would just start whining about how expensive that is ...
And one more thing - I have said it several times and stand by it: I am glad that Blizzard "is not listening to the community enough". For one, there is no one "community", everynoe lives in his own bubble and what people on TL want is very different from what people want on B.net. Yes, you guys would mostly like them to listen to TL community, but that's absolutely not what I would like, I don't want the game to take any one single step towards more mechanical difficulty.
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mini expansions, skins, adding new missions to single player every now and then and a better and more social interface would all be nice. but i don't think any of that is going to happen 
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On June 08 2015 13:09 covetousrat wrote:Theyre too busy doing thisIm not joking. This is seriously what I think. Too busy on Hearthstone and Heroes of the storm while spending 10 minutes a day on LOTV. LOTV looks totally disappointing with all those new units and gameplay. I don get any WOW effect except maybe Lurker.
Blizzard has a different team per game. Hearthstone is team 5 (which was created for that purpose.) I believe SC2 is developed by team 1.
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On June 23 2015 10:08 EleanorRIgby wrote:mini expansions, skins, adding new missions to single player every now and then and a better and more social interface would all be nice. but i don't think any of that is going to happen
Skins don't add to the gameplay. Mini expansions look like paid DLC, do we really want that? How to add new missions which stand up to the epic campaign experience? The social interface is already different in Lotv (comparable to Heroes of the Storm.)
All those things you mention rather look like promises of a company who is not used to ship complete games. A complete game does not need new missions added later, because the story has already been told in the game.
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On June 08 2015 10:48 captainwaffles wrote:
First- More drastic changes need to be tested especially for a prolonged beta. Like most everyone else I was estatic about the new economy changes they unveiled at blizzcon, 12 workers to skip the boring first 3 mins of a game? Bases that mined out faster? Awesome! But upon further digging the econ changes were pretty hollow, its just less resources per base so you mine out faster. the "3 base cap" is still a thing.
Which is perhaps intended to keep the game accessible.
What the DH solution proposes is something closer to something many players already know. I perceive this as a general issue of community feedback: Users usually want the things which they already know.
If I would be an SC2 developer, I would aim to create something which is a bit different.
I mostly share your opinion regarding the new units, but I have friends which are eager to play with the new units in question. Possibly this is a strength of SC2, providing different toys so anyone can find its favourite unit and dislike others with a passion.
I don't really see a reason why Blizzard should be so much more open to the community. The map editor allows the community to take matters in their own hands.
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On June 23 2015 18:27 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2015 10:08 EleanorRIgby wrote:mini expansions, skins, adding new missions to single player every now and then and a better and more social interface would all be nice. but i don't think any of that is going to happen Skins don't add to the gameplay. Mini expansions look like paid DLC, do we really want that? How to add new missions which stand up to the epic campaign experience? The social interface is already different in Lotv (comparable to Heroes of the Storm.) All those things you mention rather look like promises of a company who is not used to ship complete games. A complete game does not need new missions added later, because the story has already been told in the game.
yea but those things will get more casuals playing and will help the declining playerbase of sc2
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EPT
