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[Patch 9.22] Senna Release General Discussion

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
AdsMoFro
Profile Joined January 2015
Japan4761 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-06 02:04:14
November 06 2019 02:03 GMT
#1
Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.

Non-League of Legends discussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.

Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:
  • "Elo hell"
  • The Tribunal
  • Bans, either from TL.net or LoL

Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.

Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.

Patch 9.22: Live on Nov. 06, 2019

Team Fight Tactics Patch 9.22 Live on Nov. 06, 2019

Senna, The Redeemer, will be released on this patch. For more information:
Champion Trailer
Universe Hub
Champion Insights

+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +

Patch 9.21 Halloween Skins General Discussion
Patch 9.20 Return of Viktor General Discussion
Patch 9.19 Worlds Patch General Discussion
Patch 9.18 Star Guardians General Discussion
Patch 9.17 Elderwood & Infernals General Discussion
Patch 9.16 Pantheon Rework General Discussion
Patch 9.15 PROJECT Skins General Discussion
Patch 9.14 TFT Ranked Release General Discussion
Patch 9.13 Team Fight Tactics Release General Discussion
Patch 9.12 Mordekaiser Rework General Discussion
Patch 9.11 Zac Revert General Discussion
Patch 9.10 Yuumi Release General Discussion
Patch 9.9 Aatrox & Tahm Adjustments General Discussion
Patch 9.8 Blue Kayn Shadow Stepper General Discussion
Patch 9.7 Dunkmaster Ivern General Discussion
Patch 9.6 Corgi Corki General Discussion
Patch 9.5 Morgana/Kayle Reworks Discussion
Patch 9.4 Rek'sai Buffs General Discussion
[Patch 9.3 AD Itemization Changes General Discussion
Patch 9.2 Sylas Release General Discussion
Patch 9.1 Welcome to Season 9! General Discussion
Patch 8.24 Neeko Release General Discussion
Patch 8.23 Preseason Shakeup General Discussion
Que Sera Sera
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4116 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-06 18:42:27
November 06 2019 18:42 GMT
#2
I've always wondered why riot nerfs the problematic aspects of a given champion only when everything else fails, like are these the issues with Zayah, Kaisa and Blitz, especially Blitz, how many times you said to yourself omg Blitz landed a Q on me, the damage will hurt a lot...good that they removed 20 from it...Also the Kaisa and Zayah nerfs will be noticed, but were these really the issues ?
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-06 19:37:20
November 06 2019 19:34 GMT
#3
With Kai’sa I would say yes her damage with isolation q was too much, but I would have tried flagging the attacks as aoe first. This is maybe sufficient but the Q interaction with manamune and the spell vamp mastery are the real problems imo.
Carrilord has arrived.
FaCE_1
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Canada6172 Posts
November 06 2019 22:03 GMT
#4
hmmm I guess we can't play yet ? nothing work in my client :\
n_n
starkiller123
Profile Joined January 2016
United States4030 Posts
November 07 2019 00:04 GMT
#5
On November 07 2019 07:03 FaCE_1 wrote:
hmmm I guess we can't play yet ? nothing work in my client :\

yeah not working for me either rip
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
November 07 2019 06:20 GMT
#6
On November 07 2019 04:34 Slusher wrote:
With Kai’sa I would say yes her damage with isolation q was too much, but I would have tried flagging the attacks as aoe first. This is maybe sufficient but the Q interaction with manamune and the spell vamp mastery are the real problems imo.

It is already flagged as AoE. It was only on PBE it had a single patch cycle where it could proc Manamune.
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
November 07 2019 09:59 GMT
#7
On November 07 2019 03:42 M2 wrote:
I've always wondered why riot nerfs the problematic aspects of a given champion only when everything else fails, like are these the issues with Zayah, Kaisa and Blitz, especially Blitz, how many times you said to yourself omg Blitz landed a Q on me, the damage will hurt a lot...good that they removed 20 from it...Also the Kaisa and Zayah nerfs will be noticed, but were these really the issues ?


Because muh 'champion identity'.

Heavy Xayah lategame nerfs but only moderate Kai'Sa nerf, this will not remove either from the meta but probably means more Kai'Sa in pro play.

Not much of a patch, surprised Ashe/Naut/Malph are getting nerfed, they have their strengths but also major weaknesses. Kayle and Panth getting hammered again though, which is good.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
November 09 2019 07:18 GMT
#8
On November 07 2019 03:42 M2 wrote:
I've always wondered why riot nerfs the problematic aspects of a given champion only when everything else fails, like are these the issues with Zayah, Kaisa and Blitz, especially Blitz, how many times you said to yourself omg Blitz landed a Q on me, the damage will hurt a lot...good that they removed 20 from it...Also the Kaisa and Zayah nerfs will be noticed, but were these really the issues ?


I feel like they are going to have to remake blitz. Its sad, but a reality given their balancing philosophy. They keep reducing wards, which makes hooks brutal. They also have pushed the game more towards early game so you can't just keep murdering his laning, which is how you always are supposed to deal with blitz: push him in and force him to stay in lane. If you do that he's just a potato until laning phase ends, and by then most games are mostly over if your botlane blitz got 0 kills and lost 4 plates.
Freeeeeeedom
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
November 10 2019 10:58 GMT
#9
Disagree, Blitz is like Thresh/Pyke, mid/late good hook on a priority champ will hard win games, even when you're fairly behind. If you're so far behind that hooks like that aren't enough, then it's probably not just the Blitz pick which lost you the game, every other lane must've lost as well or your team had some bad team fights.

Imo true weakness of Blitz is that if he doesn't hit those hooks, then he's useless. Hence why you pointed out that pushing him in is a good strategy. A good Blitz like Ming is scary asf to play against.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
November 10 2019 18:37 GMT
#10
On November 10 2019 19:58 DarkCore wrote:
Disagree, Blitz is like Thresh/Pyke, mid/late good hook on a priority champ will hard win games, even when you're fairly behind. If you're so far behind that hooks like that aren't enough, then it's probably not just the Blitz pick which lost you the game, every other lane must've lost as well or your team had some bad team fights.

Imo true weakness of Blitz is that if he doesn't hit those hooks, then he's useless. Hence why you pointed out that pushing him in is a good strategy. A good Blitz like Ming is scary asf to play against.

I feel like you said the same thing, just with a positive spin.
Freeeeeeedom
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
November 11 2019 12:39 GMT
#11
It is very similar, hence I said your point is valid. I just generalized it to be about his hook mechanic being feast/famine rather than just the laning phase. Also, you made it sound like shutting him down in lane is how he's countered, which I think is the opposite of why people like Ming play him: a game changing hook can hard swing games back in your favour. The real way to beat him is to not let him get hooks, which encompasses pushing him in during the laning phase.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9195 Posts
November 11 2019 19:17 GMT
#12
Played a few games against Senna and another few with her on my team and my impressions are (note that I had no idea about how her passive works) that:
- she does a lot of damage early but is kind of useless later
- the shroud isn't that good or people dont know how to utilize it properly
- this applies to all new and reworked champions, but Senna is probably much better than her win rate would suggest, as most of the Senna players I played with were more focused on testing the champ / having fun with her than on winning.
You're now breathing manually
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
November 11 2019 20:42 GMT
#13
My thoughts are that ultimately support builds will be the right call because, like you said, it feels like you don't have a lot of damage. I've liked Duskblade or Ghostblade into Ardent/Redemption. In teamfights, you can ult to give everyone shields and the Ardent passive which is a game changer in teamfights.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
November 11 2019 22:05 GMT
#14
I can’t help but think pen will be considered bad once things sort out, her heal scales off bonus ad, and I think that matters a lot. I think if any non support items are good it’s probably like ie/ga + the support items
Carrilord has arrived.
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4116 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-12 20:17:01
November 12 2019 20:15 GMT
#15
Looks like people are all right with Senna, she is neither banned nor picked too much and she doesnt really feel op or useless. Objectively, she might be kind of strong, but even if this is true, she does not feel unfair, similar to Ashe who had 55% win rate for so long, but only few people complained, because, when Ashe kills you, you feel like you still had a fighting chance, not like with Akali or Irelia where there was nothing you can do.
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
November 13 2019 01:03 GMT
#16
I think the ghoul form is going to be sleeper OP as fuck. If you can manage to trigger the passive for even a second in a team fight, you have 3-5 members of your team untargetable. It doesn't sound like much, but in the chaos of a messy teamfight, sometimes the single second no one can be targeted can change the fight
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-14 20:16:29
November 14 2019 20:13 GMT
#17
I was browsing top 100 challger supports on op.gg to try to get an idea of how good Senna is, what good builds are. Most of them have completely given up on her, but Shady seems to be doing the best, he only goes leathality items. Not much else to add, the people who have tried hybrid/support builds have fed on her with both but I didn’t find any examples of support build doing well (statistically) outside of Aphro in a d4 game.

Ie has a hilariously low win rate on her which I find surprising since she has free crit chance and scales off bonus ad. Not sure why that is.
Carrilord has arrived.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-11-15 02:14:58
November 15 2019 02:13 GMT
#18
On November 15 2019 05:13 Slusher wrote:
I was browsing top 100 challger supports on op.gg to try to get an idea of how good Senna is, what good builds are. Most of them have completely given up on her, but Shady seems to be doing the best, he only goes leathality items. Not much else to add, the people who have tried hybrid/support builds have fed on her with both but I didn’t find any examples of support build doing well (statistically) outside of Aphro in a d4 game.

Ie has a hilariously low win rate on her which I find surprising since she has free crit chance and scales off bonus ad. Not sure why that is.

I'd assume it's because it's ludicrously expensive on a support budget, and a 20 minute IE is a whole lot less scary than a 12 minute IE.

Hard to pivot into other items as well if you do go for IE, as once you've gotten the BF or even the crit cloak, your options are basically ER or IE.

IE definitely feels like a win more option to me. Stacking long swords and even a dirk into something else doesn't feel anywhere close to as bad as BF into something else IMO.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
November 15 2019 08:30 GMT
#19
On November 15 2019 11:13 Amui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2019 05:13 Slusher wrote:
I was browsing top 100 challger supports on op.gg to try to get an idea of how good Senna is, what good builds are. Most of them have completely given up on her, but Shady seems to be doing the best, he only goes leathality items. Not much else to add, the people who have tried hybrid/support builds have fed on her with both but I didn’t find any examples of support build doing well (statistically) outside of Aphro in a d4 game.

Ie has a hilariously low win rate on her which I find surprising since she has free crit chance and scales off bonus ad. Not sure why that is.

I'd assume it's because it's ludicrously expensive on a support budget, and a 20 minute IE is a whole lot less scary than a 12 minute IE.

Hard to pivot into other items as well if you do go for IE, as once you've gotten the BF or even the crit cloak, your options are basically ER or IE.

IE definitely feels like a win more option to me. Stacking long swords and even a dirk into something else doesn't feel anywhere close to as bad as BF into something else IMO.

100% What I was thinking. I actually think Senna would be pretty OP if she had access to itemization on par with things like Frostfang series, ardent senser, twin shadows, or even rylias.

Zyra builds Spelthief (no AD equiv) into FF (850) and sorc boots (1100) 1950 total. This is cheaper than Dblade (450), reg boots (300) and BF Sword (1300) 2050 total. And is more effective at all points up to that point (and is making you money). If we got an AD support item (which I have wanted since the beginning of GP5 items as it will make for fun madness) in the next season, she will need to be nerfed AF. Obviously also some others would need nerfs as well. Pyke, Ashe, Cait (maybe), Kindred (maybe), Urgot (probably, but dont we all think support is where urgot belongs?).
Freeeeeeedom
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4116 Posts
November 15 2019 15:44 GMT
#20
Senna is designed with the AD support items in mind, which are not coming next season, but in few days, however, the ap items have always been way more stronger, cost efficient, better, superior with better actives and passives than both the AD and the Tank items, so I am not sure how an AD damage support will be able to keep up with the AP damage supports, providing that they cannot generate money fast, which will make the items gap even more noticeable.
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
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