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On August 02 2019 08:35 iCanada wrote:
Aatrox right after the rework was an S tier jungler. But you're right, that's pretty much it.
Save a few odd games Aatrox was played almost entirely in top and mid right after his rework. Korea and EU picked him up instantly for top and mid when he was released in the pro scene (Rift Rivals). It took a few patches before he went into the jungle (when they reduced his Q damage to minions).
How does new Pantheon fare against mega tanks now?
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On August 03 2019 01:39 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2019 08:35 iCanada wrote:
Aatrox right after the rework was an S tier jungler. But you're right, that's pretty much it. Save a few odd games Aatrox was played almost entirely in top and mid right after his rework. Korea and EU picked him up instantly for top and mid when he was released in the pro scene (Rift Rivals). It took a few patches before he went into the jungle (when they reduced his Q damage to minions). How does new Pantheon fare against mega tanks now?
He was definitely more favoured for top, but that doesn't mean he wasn't also arguably the most oppressive jungler too. Hence why they nerfed his minion damage so many times.
I changed my mind again re: pantheon. He's just awful in Lane currently. Loses every matchup unless and even if your Lane opponent screws up and you outplay then with E. He just doesn't do damage. I died 1v1 to a fiora whom missed her riposte, and I E invulnerable'd two vital price while not missing a single spear. He just does no damage. And if fiora is good you'll never hit a Q; it's literally old pantheon vs original GP but pantheon is GP and Fiora is pantheon.
Tank lanes are just silly wet noodle fights. I think they are his best matchups at the moment though. Stuff he used to bully just kick his butt at the moment, even when they are bad players who are several thousand gold behind from farming. Problem is that his Q is his only damage and the rest of his kit has none. In 1v1s he's string at level 1 and 2, but then just falls off once everyone has all their abilities unless they completely under our over respect E. Also, his hold Q is utter shite in Lane; does literally zero damage because it'll hit minions first and the CD is so long desire it being his only damage ability. If you ever use it in Lane and your opponent has a brain he'll kill you. Execute is only on his hold Q; due to the minion passthrough interaction it literally usually does less damage than if you tap Q. He generally does less damage if your opponent is braindead and you okay perfect, but you also lose a lot of that because you're damage is no longer reliable. I think he's bad in duels, tbh.
I think he's ok in the jungle. His 2v2s are quite good, but 1v1 he's close to amumu tier early game. His clear is strong although you need some basic jungle creep micro first clear to stay healthy (kiting till spear up, 3v2 auto trades, maximizing rejuv bead; i just mention it because some of my friends struggled with the clear and I had to talk them through it, hopefully yall do this on every champ in the jungle) and he ganks very well though. I don't think top tier, but better in Jungle than in Lane.
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Kass buffs on pbe right now. 30 damage to W? I almost think Kass might bully top laners like Fiora / Jax / Irelia with this buff. Big damage.
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He has like negative base armor so idk
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On August 09 2019 06:02 iCanada wrote:
Kass buffs on pbe right now. 30 damage to W? I almost think Kass might bully top laners like Fiora / Jax / Irelia with this buff. Big damage.
Gut feeling is that he's going to have a real hard time fighting back still.
Jax E blocks kass W(basically fucks him at level 1), and level 2 can just jump him with a stun. Don't see Kass surviving this matchup.
Irelia is still probably going to almost kill him with a single stun at 2. Going to have to play so scared.
Fiora probably the least likely to kill him of those 3 by virtue of not having lockdown.
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Idk, 70 damage twice on an auto attack reset in a level 1 fight is pretty scary. For reference Jax W is only 30 damage level 1 on the same CD. Also keeping in mind he gets 20 damage onhit from W passive. Thats 180 every 7 seconds when you go to trade.
I dont really play top aside from Spartan autofills, but honestly thats pretty scary. Worst case he farms with Q till 3, and he can easily outplay them for sure with the big E slow will always be up. Idk. I could be out to lunch. He would have to build pretty tanky too, I suppose.
For reference, per op.gg with a sample size of about 150 games each in Korea Diamond+, he has a 49.0% winrate vs Irelia / Fiora top atm, although Jax shits on him (46.3% WR). He may still shit on him. And I think he'll still lose to classic lane bullies (Darius / Rene / Aatrox / Teemo / Yas / Riven etc).
In any case, certainly makes mid Kassadin kinda scary, as I would say he is currently pretty balanced for an assassin with such an oppressive late game.
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He also will take literally double damage from creeps than me if he w’s me in the wave
My guess with respect to the win rate is Korea Diamond + games are probably all better bot wins(regardless of top match up). I actually cannot think of any conceivable way to lose that lane as Irelia.
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I'm not sure that he needs to win the lane per-say, I think Kass just kinda does Irelia's job better late game and Irelia can't really kill Kass. Probably quite similiar to the Yasuo matchup, like Irelia wins lane, but like Yasuo just kind of wins the game. Except that currently Irelia probably wins the lane much harder vs Kass.
Not sure there is a champion I'd rather have level 16 with 3 or 4 items than Kassadin. Kass scary af from 30 to 40 minutes. Maybe Vlad / Cass? And I guess the obvious Kayle. Maybe Sona?
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On August 09 2019 13:13 iCanada wrote:
I'm not sure that he needs to win the lane per-say, I think Kass just kinda does Irelia's job better late game and Irelia can't really kill Kass. Probably quite similiar to the Yasuo matchup, like Irelia wins lane, but like Yasuo just kind of wins the game. Except that currently Irelia probably wins the lane much harder vs Kass.
Not sure there is a champion I'd rather have level 16 with 3 or 4 items than Kassadin. Kass scary af from 30 to 40 minutes. Maybe Vlad / Cass? And I guess the obvious Kayle. Maybe Sona?
Kass lategame is why you pick him though, once you hit 16, assuming your team isn't super far behind or the enemy has strangely built a comp to shut him down, he deletes entire teams so easily. Funnily enough he also destroys Vlad and Cass once he gets to that point. Getting there is the problem, there's so much in the game currently that can shut him down, and he's pretty lackluster in the current fast paced snowball meta, more early damage doesn't really address that.
Strange that Riot thinks damage adjustments is what Kass needs. If they're not careful, he could go back to being ludicrously broken.
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my Apprehension for picking Kass is rarely the lane match up, it’s if my bot loses and their bot does an outer turret rotation to all 3 lanes you actually just don’t get to play the game as kassadin
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Sucks being as vulnerable as a jungler, huh? Lol.
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That got me thinking, is it possible to jungle Kass if his AA do more damage early? Is it champion only or does it include minions? He could fill a gimmicky role like jungle Karthus, no CC but an extra flash at lv 6 with red buff can be pretty scary.
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This would go back to the base armor thing I mentioned earlier, he has the lowest base armor in the game not counting ori who has a steroid as well as terrible growth and his aoe is conditional, meaning his best possible opening route is probably like red>blue>krug and even then he might have to base
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Idk, my gut feel is that it would be troll as hell to jungle Kass because he basically can't AoE farm raps wolves golems or gank till 6. Also, as someone who used to play a ton of jungle taric in plat after his rework prior to the big Mama nerfs, you'd have opponent junglers on your nuts cheesing just because they see a non meta jungler. It was fine on taric because you could legit 1v1 anything as long as you had mana, but like I'm pretty sure a Kass would int hard to like Lee / Kha / Xin / Elise / Reksai / J4 / Nidalee.
Hard to say. I'll look at the clear when I get home though, I'm curious.
EDIT: Yeah its troll as fuck still on PBE. Even with perfect kiting you can barely path Red->Wolves->Blue, let alone hit four. If you try to do Red->Golems or Red->Raps you just die. He jungles quickly though, LOL. Thats with Machete, with Rejuv bead its worse.
I guess with a leash you might be able to hit level 3 before you back and do alright... but like... Idk man.
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New pantheon W can be avoided with flash or a dash, like old reworked reksai ult.
Nice. ಠ_ʖಠ
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The entire need for point and click stuns in the game is to counter mobility. If you can dash cancel panth w it’s just a shit version of melee aoe stuns like Jax/Taric/galio
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EPT
