Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
70% damage reduction on minions from the new banner of command is probably not enough. I get that 100% magic damage reduction was problematic but wish they kept it higher than 70%.
Idk if those Kha changes are actually nerfs, having 3 stealths is incredibly strong. They essentially removed bush stealth for considerably longer duration.
Those IE changes, how exactly do they work with Yasuo passive. If he has 25% crit, does he have 50/75/100%? And why did they remove crit from Essence Reaver, who's going to buy it now? Varus?
On May 31 2018 05:49 DarkCore wrote: Bird buffs, Froggen is going to be happy.
Idk if those Kha changes are actually nerfs, having 3 stealths is incredibly strong. They essentially removed bush stealth for considerably longer duration.
Those IE changes, how exactly do they work with Yasuo passive. If he has 25% crit, does he have 50/75/100%? And why did they remove crit from Essence Reaver, who's going to buy it now? Varus?
Koggles is the 1st that comes to mind for the new ER.
On May 31 2018 05:49 DarkCore wrote: Bird buffs, Froggen is going to be happy.
Idk if those Kha changes are actually nerfs, having 3 stealths is incredibly strong. They essentially removed bush stealth for considerably longer duration.
Those IE changes, how exactly do they work with Yasuo passive. If he has 25% crit, does he have 50/75/100%? And why did they remove crit from Essence Reaver, who's going to buy it now? Varus?
Koggles is the 1st that comes to mind for the new ER.
Why would kog build essence reaver? There is a 30 second cooldown on the new essence flare passive. If kog wants to keep it for a teamfight, that means he can't use R to clear waves or jungle camps. If it doesn't hurt her damage too much, sivir should still consider it. She can use the mana, her spells had a lot of damage and she uses her ult at the start of teamfights.
I predict Pyke to get destroyed in the laning phase versus real kill lanes. No health itemization just sounds really gimmicky, as if they ran out of ideas for new abilities.
Everyone one says it’s so good but the flare being tied to ult seems very clunky and will definitely influence what characters can even use it.
I really just don’t like the item that n paper much at all it only lasts 8 seconds I’d take 30% cdr permenant any day of the week . The only advantage I can see is mana return on 1 item . I get that this patch is an adc nerf patch but I don’t get the hype with this item.
On May 31 2018 05:49 DarkCore wrote: Bird buffs, Froggen is going to be happy.
Idk if those Kha changes are actually nerfs, having 3 stealths is incredibly strong. They essentially removed bush stealth for considerably longer duration.
Those IE changes, how exactly do they work with Yasuo passive. If he has 25% crit, does he have 50/75/100%? And why did they remove crit from Essence Reaver, who's going to buy it now? Varus?
Koggles is the 1st that comes to mind for the new ER.
Why would kog build essence reaver? There is a 30 second cooldown on the new essence flare passive. If kog wants to keep it for a teamfight, that means he can't use R to clear waves or jungle camps. If it doesn't hurt her damage too much, sivir should still consider it. She can use the mana, her spells had a lot of damage and she uses her ult at the start of teamfights.
I imagine if it becomes overtuned he would wreck in skirmishes.
Not an ADC, but the new essence reaver could be really strong on Jax. Get the attack speed up with his passive; then pop R, ready E and Q into a fight. With Jax doing almost 2 attacks per second and each attack reducing 40% remaining cooldown he would practically have his E back up moments after it went off. W would be practically every other or every third attack. And his in fight mobility with q coming back up would be bonkers.
On May 31 2018 19:41 evilfatsh1t wrote: how is no one thinking of ez with essence reaver. hes gonna have like 2 second q's and 4 second e's
But he already had that.
I think new essence reaver is highly overvalued. On Ez it doesnt fit in the build path plus the 20% missing CD doesn't really affect him on his Q. I tried it on Lucian and it didn't feel as good as I was expecting. Most fights my starting DPS was higher if i didnt use ult, so i chose that option instead, plus most of the fights were already over by the time the effect kicked in. Apart from those 2, who really uses it? All I could think of was MF, Ashe and Sivir, but for the last 2 it delays getting crit and with MF the fights are usually over once her ult finishes anyway.
If ER works on Udyr, I'd like to see how it looks on Nidalee and Jayce, just for laughs. But the Jax idea sounds really interesting, basically means that he can pop his ult in lane for some really aggressive trading or all in.
It's good that it's tied to your ult, means that the item is niche and not an instant buy on certain champs.
This item is going to be klepto part 2 where it will suck donkey dick on all characters but like 2 who’s kit it fits perfectly. And they will have to rework the cd passive or nerf it around those two characters making it trash and dumb to smoke on anything else
No basis for this aside from theorycraft, but I'm thinking ER would be pretty good on master yi. Between his passive and ER reduction on autos, he'd get an alpha strike every second or third auto attack after ulting. Pretty much won't even need resets to feel like he's invulnerable while killing everybody.
On June 01 2018 17:13 Jek wrote: ER looks really pretty fucking dank on Renekton.
Holy shit you're not kidding. Tried it out in practice tool and you can almost chain stun somebody, and they can't even run because you'll have E up again.
These are the kinds of interactions that I'm honestly shocked make it through testing. This might make Renekton viable again, before Riot nerfs it out of this world.
I was wondering if banner was still any good after the changes. I suppose I can take that as a yes.
Although I’m still sore they removed the CDR since I needed that to get to 40% on full build jungle Cho. If it’s still good enouph to buy then I’m going to need to make larger changes to my build order.
On June 02 2018 05:42 General_Winter wrote: I was wondering if banner was still any good after the changes. I suppose I can take that as a yes.
Although I’m still sore they removed the CDR since I needed that to get to 40% on full build jungle Cho. If it’s still good enouph to buy then I’m going to need to make larger changes to my build order.
it's broken. Even Graves junglers are building it lol.
I feel like Pike would be good if he could build Tank, but for some reason having aoe stun that requires you to run into the enemy team is pretty useless with full AD
I am kind of enjoying new Irelia* in games and competitive (even though I think old Irelia could do this well if you just gave her straight buffs like the rework basically did), but her stun has a really bad visual problem in competitive where it is really easy to lose in compared to other similarly impactful spells. It needs some sort of afterimage (like a Karthus wall sort of thing/how the ground breaks from Ali's Q), a unique noise (Cait Trap), or an indicator on the affected champ (morg Q). She's being used a lot in Demacia cup and that stun can change whole fights, but its basically invisible on a first watch because both ends can end up being within champion models, the animation is tiny and quick, and then the people just are generically stunned. It also doesn't help that her animations are always doing things, so you cant see her doing an obvious cast animation.
If they get Irelia stun down properly, she might be pretty balanced. I agree with the animation being hard to really eyeball, so many pros think they're out of range and then get destroyed because it sets up her entire combo.
Arg. So it looks like they are just sick of banner and want to kill it. Going from 70% to 40% is a huge drop in durability. At this point I’m doubtful if you could push through active resistance with a bannered siege minnion. Still, I suppose I’ll need to wait and see, or just build it and lose some games.
Honestly banner just feels like a poorly designed item. What purpose is it meant to have? Give heroes who dont have strong lane pushing pressure an option to make that better?
Doesn't this ignore that heroes are meant to have strengths and weaknesses? That compositions should excel at certain things while being weak to others. Surely it undermines this duality if its just a little bit good? So why even have that item in the first place.
Also helps split pushers (or fighting against it) by chucking a minion in the sideline that won't just get instacleared by a mage so you can actually pressure the map and force people to deal with it. The other problem is that its stats don't punish that much in 5v5 or such for building it.
Especially when it was spammed on Cho and other such champions which would routinely tank 1v5 anyway so having a bit lower stats in exchange wasn't a big deal.
I might be wrong, but I don't think the item was ever bought when Ziggs was meta, textbook example of an item not filling the purpose it was designed for.
I like the idea of using a minion to force a lane to push, just that it's been poorly implemented.
Honestly banner just feels like a poorly designed item. What purpose is it meant to have? Give heroes who dont have strong lane pushing pressure an option to make that better?
Many of those champions are still bad split pushers in a 1vs1 scenario, which is how you're supposed to counter them. Big problem right now is that Banner kills minions too fast, and it can be rushed before real splitters come online. I think if they gutted its damage and made the minion really tanky instead, allowing for a slow push, it would be much better.
Banner was added at the beginning of S3, when I think they decided to add a ton of item actives. They had the one that disabled towers, sightstone, crucible, and added all the jungle items. So it was pretty much just throwing shit at the wall.
Banner was also a hybrid ap/def item before it started getting used (and I think it might have been full ap at one point) it was getting abused immediately after it got converted to a tank item, this isn't Censor situation, it got buffed and became meta instantly.
Pyke is horrible. He is going to need a rework to so he can jungle but his ganks are going to be so strong he will just get nerfed anyway. Just delete from the game
On June 05 2018 03:54 General_Winter wrote: Yeah. It seems like if he stacks HP regen and isn’t dumb he is basically unkillable.
Uhh how is he unkillable? If he is picked support you just CC him and kill him. If he picked jungle you LoL at him while he falls behind 2 levels because he cant farm and you counter gank him.
On June 05 2018 04:14 Slayer91 wrote: how exactly is a diving melee with low xp and no ability to buy hp going to not die lol
hp regen might heal you 10% of your hp over 4 waves or 2 minutes in an actual fight you just get one shot
Seriously. There cannot be a functioning AD support assassin.
If an AD support assassin can function without gold then you put it in a lane and give it real items and now its broken.
He is almost certainly going to end up in the jungle but his cooldowns are super high and his attack speed seems really low. He reminds me of old Alistar jungle where you hit level 2 and just go gank. That just cant work anymore. You end up 2 or 3 levels behind everyone else.
I'm very confused about the idea of picking a melee assassin support with the goal of "sitting back" and waiting for regen. Wouldn't that be the strategy for, say, Janna/Soraka? This is a guy who's kit is basically Leona without tankiness combined with Diana without waveclear.
On June 05 2018 04:18 cLutZ wrote: I'm very confused about the idea of picking a melee assassin support with the goal of "sitting back" and waiting for regen. Wouldn't that be the strategy for, say, Janna/Soraka? This is a guy who's kit is basically Leona without tankiness combined with Diana without waveclear.
I feel like he is Thresh with no tankiness. Weird pull into a stun.. except in order to stun you need to dive in or already be behind them. Then your ult is worthless because you have no damage.
His passive is pretty much instant heal after a disengagement. Riot may call him an assasin for marketing, but from playing against him in arams the two actual points of power are the passive that heals damage as soon as out of sight and his CC. He takes damage, backs out passive gets him back to 80-90% and hp regen gets him the rest of the way. Then repeat. Eventually something lands and someone else capitalizes. Whatever riot may say, I look at his kit and think anyone building pure assasin is playing him wrong. To put another frame on it, his passive is basically warmogs. You step back out of combat and regenerate to full HP. Is the right way to play a warmogs champ to jump in like an assasin?
On June 05 2018 11:01 General_Winter wrote: His passive is pretty much instant heal after a disengagement. Riot may call him an assasin for marketing, but from playing against him in arams the two actual points of power are the passive that heals damage as soon as out of sight and his CC. He takes damage, backs out passive gets him back to 80-90% and hp regen gets him the rest of the way. Then repeat. Eventually something lands and someone else capitalizes. Whatever riot may say, I look at his kit and think anyone building pure assasin is playing him wrong. To put another frame on it, his passive is basically warmogs. You step back out of combat and regenerate to full HP. Is the right way to play a warmogs champ to jump in like an assasin?
Okay but he can't build HP. Period.
If you have only faced him in arams why are you commenting on his dynamics on SR?
On June 05 2018 11:01 General_Winter wrote: His passive is pretty much instant heal after a disengagement. Riot may call him an assasin for marketing, but from playing against him in arams the two actual points of power are the passive that heals damage as soon as out of sight and his CC. He takes damage, backs out passive gets him back to 80-90% and hp regen gets him the rest of the way. Then repeat. Eventually something lands and someone else capitalizes. Whatever riot may say, I look at his kit and think anyone building pure assasin is playing him wrong. To put another frame on it, his passive is basically warmogs. You step back out of combat and regenerate to full HP. Is the right way to play a warmogs champ to jump in like an assasin?
The old, "low hp regen tank" archetype. A classic really.
On June 05 2018 11:01 General_Winter wrote: His passive is pretty much instant heal after a disengagement. Riot may call him an assasin for marketing, but from playing against him in arams the two actual points of power are the passive that heals damage as soon as out of sight and his CC. He takes damage, backs out passive gets him back to 80-90% and hp regen gets him the rest of the way. Then repeat. Eventually something lands and someone else capitalizes. Whatever riot may say, I look at his kit and think anyone building pure assasin is playing him wrong. To put another frame on it, his passive is basically warmogs. You step back out of combat and regenerate to full HP. Is the right way to play a warmogs champ to jump in like an assasin?
Okay but he can't build HP. Period.
If you have only faced him in arams why are you commenting on his dynamics on SR?
I think the point is Pyke in ARAM isn't spam dying despite being in a constant 5v5 situation on a map where flanking is even harder than on The Rift. Which is true, I've played as/against/with him and he does just fine - his passive is borderline broken in ARAM.
Pyke doesn't seem like a bad champion to me. I think a large part of the issue is how unconventional he is, you cannot play him as a traditional support which means the standard composition sort of get thrown out of the window you need to play/pick around having an adc+assassin rather than adc+support botlane.
It feels super awkward how you want to spam roam but need exp so desperately you cannot really afford it.
I also think Pyke is likely lessbad than one would expect based on performance because like 80% of his players never play support and are just hard losing because they bad at support.
Wait for the popularity to die down a bit, imo. Then we'll see what he really brings.
I do. I don't really think I've seen a good build order for him, so that part is non-intuitive. If there is a good build order there is still the massive risk of falling behind and becoming irrelevant just like a traditional kill lane like jarvan, without the super sick late game power that is blitz's hook (no one would say thresh or Naut hook is an op late game skill).
Other people have speculated his WR will rise. I think its probable as his optimal runes and builds come into focus (unless they already are, then Fuuuuuuukkk), but in the end he has the problem of filling a niche that's never been successful before (assassin support) at a time when Riot's overall balance choices have disfavored all the things that would make it successful (hard engage, midlane assassins, low waveclear champions, 2v2 lane agression, etc).
On June 05 2018 14:36 dsyxelic wrote: dunno how people are doing so badly on pyke
I've been doing pretty well with him the few games I played in soloq and flex
at worst he's just a meh blitzcrank but the pull factor is still there
at best you're a fucking melee support draven cash cow with executes
his lvl 1 is also insane imo
Keep in mind he's the coolest support to come out since ever. a large percentage of his players are basically autofilled that would lose literally any lane
pyke is the holy grail for autofilled supports who think playing an actual support is boring they used to pick blitz or bard or something a lot but this is another level
Pyke WL ratio is floating at approx 44-45% on EUNE at least. Does this affect teams when they see a person playing a low WL champ?
I'm just wondering because he's only been out for such a short time, and that doesn't give anybody good time to get really comfortable with playing him yet.
He has a pretty low win rate right now, 2nd lowest in EUW haha, only Ryze is lower. It's not much higher even in Masters and Challenger. My opinion is that he has a frustrating design, but ultimately he doesn't carry much. I've heard some pros say he's strong, but I've also seen him lose quite a lot of games where he seems to be carrying. And he seems useless when behind.
On June 05 2018 11:01 General_Winter wrote: His passive is pretty much instant heal after a disengagement. Riot may call him an assasin for marketing, but from playing against him in arams the two actual points of power are the passive that heals damage as soon as out of sight and his CC. He takes damage, backs out passive gets him back to 80-90% and hp regen gets him the rest of the way. Then repeat. Eventually something lands and someone else capitalizes. Whatever riot may say, I look at his kit and think anyone building pure assasin is playing him wrong. To put another frame on it, his passive is basically warmogs. You step back out of combat and regenerate to full HP. Is the right way to play a warmogs champ to jump in like an assasin?
The old, "low hp regen tank" archetype. A classic really.
Swain worked well like that, he didn't build health apart from RoA.
On June 05 2018 21:18 loSleb wrote: PYKE is BUSTED you LITERALLY CANNOT LOSE with him:
Putting this one on the banner my dude
To be honest I think he’s mostly fine now, other than the auto fill thing already covered. The trend shifting to aftershock from electrocute helps him a lot I think.
On June 05 2018 11:01 General_Winter wrote: His passive is pretty much instant heal after a disengagement. Riot may call him an assasin for marketing, but from playing against him in arams the two actual points of power are the passive that heals damage as soon as out of sight and his CC. He takes damage, backs out passive gets him back to 80-90% and hp regen gets him the rest of the way. Then repeat. Eventually something lands and someone else capitalizes. Whatever riot may say, I look at his kit and think anyone building pure assasin is playing him wrong. To put another frame on it, his passive is basically warmogs. You step back out of combat and regenerate to full HP. Is the right way to play a warmogs champ to jump in like an assasin?
The old, "low hp regen tank" archetype. A classic really.
Swain worked well like that, he didn't build health apart from RoA.
Swain didn't work like that at all. He was an AOE mage that could draintank a bit because Zhonyas existed. He didn't frontline to absorb poke then run away and hide for a while only to return again thanks to his regen.
If your trying to be cheeky at least bring up the semi-relevant example: Hextech Singed. But even he built for tankiness after.
See if you're mentioning Hextech Singed you're looking at stuff too recent for my example, I'm talking old old Swain. And he had jack for AoE, it was mainly about catching somebody and trying to get them dead with your team, while your tankiness (partly due to Zhonya) made you an unappealing target, forcing people to try and kite to abuse your range instead.
On June 06 2018 04:22 Alaric wrote: See if you're mentioning Hextech Singed you're looking at stuff too recent for my example, I'm talking old old Swain. And he had jack for AoE, it was mainly about catching somebody and trying to get them dead with your team, while your tankiness (partly due to Zhonya) made you an unappealing target, forcing people to try and kite to abuse your range instead.
What version are you even talking about?
He was released the the classic Slowing Q, Root W, DOT E, and AOE Drain R. At no point could he ever heal without attacking a target.
Low HP regen tank. You didn't say it had to be out of combat regen. He was acting as frontline by basically having enough HP/MR not to get blown up by AP assassins and forcing people to get away from him once somebody got caught/someone else on his team initiated a fight.
The secondary passive is basically Tom kench grey health except where the % recovered is based on an ad ratio and the Regen requirement is being out of vision (w counts)
It’s very high Regen like significantly faster than warmogs, or maybe it just looks like it because it kicks in instantly, not sure.
On June 06 2018 07:52 Slusher wrote: The secondary passive is basically Tom kench grey health except where the % recovered is based on an ad ratio and the Regen requirement is being out of vision (w counts)
It’s very high Regen like significantly faster than warmogs, or maybe it just looks like it because it kicks in instantly, not sure.
Indeed, but how does any of that make Swain relevant?
On June 05 2018 21:13 Slayer91 wrote: pyke is the holy grail for autofilled supports who think playing an actual support is boring they used to pick blitz or bard or something a lot but this is another level
im pretty happy if they pick blitz or bard
its when i see the shitty autofill support lux i want to ff
used to be nid support
i fully support this champ riot made so that those players can be less shitty
I dunno, he's asking for a low HP regen tank, I don't care if he sticks to recent times, I wasn't talking about Pyke either who's about as much of a tank as Rakan is.
Ok so let me explain to you brainlets why pyke has a low win rate. This is an ASSASSIN that is played in a role which has players that have literally never played said type of character. That is literally it. The vast majority of support players are just so used to regular supports that his completely throws them off.
On June 06 2018 08:40 nafta wrote: Ok so let me explain to you brainlets why pyke has a low win rate. This is an ASSASSIN that is played in a role which has players that have literally never played said type of character. That is literally it. The vast majority of support players are just so used to regular supports that his completely throws them off.
How dare you make sense.
This extends to the ADC too, playing with an assassin "support" is way different than playing with a support support. Hell, it extends to the entire team. Pyke makes the botlane an adc+assassin lane not adc+support lane.
Right but if you just run Alistar/Braum/Leona/Morgana/Lulu then Pyke is completely useless in lane. If he goes in, he is dead. His hook is like Thresh's but he isn't nearly as tanky as thresh.
Playing him like an assassin you want to hook/stun/auto until you can execute. I do not think this is going to happen in the support role ever. Idk obviously we will see but he seems super bad bot lane unless he is facing people that are terrible anyway.
i mean hes not supposed to be good in lane anyways. a competent botlane should not really be pressured vs a pyke. i dont mind facing morgana as pyke since she doesn't really 'bully' me or my adc. lets me just wait till lane is over / roam for some executes.
On June 06 2018 10:51 Slayer91 wrote: or maybe pyke is just garbage because he's a melee assassin with little ability to scale with any items
i mean maybe literally everyone is under thinking this or maybe a few guys are overthinking it
This is kind of what I am thinking. Kill lanes are kinda historically bad. Maybe Pyke is different than Lee Sin support and Jarvan and Leblanc and Irelia and all the other gimmicky options, but maybe not. At least some of those are able to build to initiate to transition out of laning.
Ironically (for me)*, Pyke might be an anti-assassination support. You pick Pyke into a soloQ team with Zed + Kha + Jax and then just camp your own ADC and CC/Execute the first one to come at you. Basically its a niche strat that probably isn't any better than just picking Janna and Kiting, but it might work. Then again, it would probably work for support Lee Sin too if all his HP was transformed into AD instead.
*This is basically like the Olaf option someone once suggested for me that I scoffed at, where they said Olaf should not dive the backline, but just use his W/Ult to kill enemy divers.
This is kind of what I am thinking. Kill lanes are kinda historically bad. Maybe Pyke is different than Lee Sin support and Jarvan and Leblanc and Irelia and all the other gimmicky options, but maybe not. At least some of those are able to build to initiate to transition out of laning.
Ironically (for me)*, Pyke might be an anti-assassination support. You pick Pyke into a soloQ team with Zed + Kha + Jax and then just camp your own ADC and CC/Execute the first one to come at you. Basically its a niche strat that probably isn't any better than just picking Janna and Kiting, but it might work. Then again, it would probably work for support Lee Sin too if all his HP was transformed into AD instead.
Not sure what you are saying here. You are saying against assasssins you try to instagib them? Pyke doesn't seem like he has the instant CC that's effective in shutting down assassins. Assassins are weak to instant CC or shields which stop him one shotting his target. Pykes kit seems like it's for pulling in a carry and then stun+collapse and reset with ult.
On June 06 2018 15:20 Slusher wrote: If you are playing an assassin vs Pyke he is your target because of his passive
TBH, depending on the situation thats a win for a support.
I'm not sure why assassins would try to target pyke because of his passive?? He's squishy, sure, but he doesn't really do anything lel. If you kill the enemy AD or mid it will have a much larger effect, it's just he's going to be a juicier target than even a squishy support. Except normally assassins which go for squishy supports are easy deal with because you can trade their life or at least most of their hp for a support who isn't really needed as much once the assassin is out of the fight.
On June 06 2018 15:13 cLutZ wrote:
*This is basically like the Olaf option someone once suggested for me that I scoffed at, where they said Olaf should not dive the backline, but just use his W/Ult to kill enemy divers.
I mean depending on the situation both are viable options. I think the problem with this on olaf is that once your ult is gone you are too easy to kite out. I think if you save your ult and kill someone who is overdiving it might be more effective than You going 1v4 and dying and then some tankier guy going 1v4 and dying more slowly. I'm not an olaf player but it seems like the ideal situation for olaf is having say an engaging tank and a shield support which allow you to just jump on squishies while the whole team tries and fails to focus you down. The next best option seems like the enemy front line diving in and you just going and killing 1-2 while they can't kill you fast enough and can't kite without CC.
The worst situation is you just jumping in and instadying so I think in a teamfight where they are looking to focus you hanging back for a while would make sense and why not get some extra damage on some tank until the enemies commit more.
Honestly I like that Lucian is viable again, but ER just seems ridiculously broken on him. It's basically blue Ezreal all over again, a champion can exploit a certain item so ridiculously well that the meta revolves around him. Nerfing the champion basically means that once said item gets nerfed, they will hit rock bottom.
Mind blown. Taliyah is the highest win rate jungle in Korea. I figured after recent changes maybe she moved to support. I did not see this coming. But I suppose with 1 mana Q she is one of the few AP jungles without mana issues. And her passive means she can get to lanes quickly.
On June 07 2018 22:01 General_Winter wrote: Mind blown. Taliyah is the highest win rate jungle in Korea. I figured after recent changes maybe she moved to support. I did not see this coming. But I suppose with 1 mana Q she is one of the few AP jungles without mana issues. And her passive means she can get to lanes quickly.
I saw this on Tyler1's stream that he was playing with a Talliyah JG. Surprised me as well as I have more than 250 games under my belt this season and I've never seen her used in anything else than mid.
On June 07 2018 22:01 General_Winter wrote: Mind blown. Taliyah is the highest win rate jungle in Korea. I figured after recent changes maybe she moved to support. I did not see this coming. But I suppose with 1 mana Q she is one of the few AP jungles without mana issues. And her passive means she can get to lanes quickly.
I saw this on Tyler1's stream that he was playing with a Talliyah JG. Surprised me as well as I have more than 250 games under my belt this season and I've never seen her used in anything else than mid.
Might have something to do with the fact it wasn't viable until this patch :p
It’s really easy to play actually. I got auto filled to jungle and got 9 kills on my first try. Just wall in enemy bot lane at level 6 and the game is over.
On June 09 2018 00:16 Ansibled wrote: Why is everyone acting like the world is exploding and the game sucks lately?
pretty much happens every big change
"oh adcs are useless//too strong" "assassins are op/up" "hyper carry comps too good" "jungle bruiser good tanks useless" "jungle tanks op bruisers useless" "jungle sucks too much farming" "jungle sucks too much ganking can't play aggresively in lane"
etcetc
banner was stupid though didnt like basically having a giant damage soak to kill when you're trying to defend a siege
“Pyke - Looking at whether AD purchases are appropriately rewarded, or whether he's too skewed towards building tank/utility when played optimally (open question, not a firm statement)”
Just gonna note that several days ago I said Pyke’s optimal build was tank and got a lot of (good natured) grief for it. Well now Rito is catching up to what was obvious to me after a few ARAM games. Not really that practical use to this remark, but half the fun of sticking your neck out with whacky opinions is getting to say “I told you so” on the occasions you turn out to be right. So consider it said.
I really hope Riot doesn’t cave and buff ads as a result of pros playing bruisers in solo q. I’d like to see how this plays out, and I also think a lot of posturing is going on.
Going back on topic, what do people think about Zzrot as a banner replacement? While banner was an option, Zzrot was outclassed so there wasn’t much reason to build it. Once banner is gone, ZZrot is no longer completely outclassed so it gets compared to just not building an item.
On June 09 2018 05:27 General_Winter wrote: Going back on topic, what do people think about Zzrot as a banner replacement? While banner was an option, Zzrot was outclassed so there wasn’t much reason to build it. Once banner is gone, ZZrot is no longer completely outclassed so it gets compared to just not building an item.
Sucks as a pushing item after the change. All it does it reverse the minion push and then is useless. Almost never is actually useful in pushing a tower down by itself because of its range.
ZZrot doesn't fulfill the basic use case of banner which was as a siege unit. Old ZZrot was useful because it applied splitpush pressure against tanks who took forever to kill the spawning device, but banner was wasted when used in that role. It was best for use with Baron because it meant the enemy had to get out from behind the turret to waveclear it, and even is useful without baron for forcing dives. ZZrot does none of that. It just kinda provides passive splitpush, but its way too easy to deal with.
On June 09 2018 05:26 Slusher wrote: I really hope Riot doesn’t cave and buff ads as a result of pros playing bruisers in solo q. I’d like to see how this plays out, and I also think a lot of posturing is going on.
They should at the very least make zeal items cheaper and give 25% crit. You can't nerf the base stats of champions and make their items bad in the same patch.
On June 09 2018 19:23 evilfatsh1t wrote: im genuinely interested in what riots balance teams reaction was to the adc nerfs and the current yasuo/morde/vlad bot meta. "job well done boys"
They've been trying to remove the "you have to have an ADC" thing for a while now. Morde rework being the first obvious move towards this. They basically said, "yeah we want IE ADCs to be an option but not be mandatory."
The issue is in my opinion, the only time morde was actually viable is when his numbers were disgustingly broken, and now when IE ADCs (With some exceptions) are completely useless in early/mid game. Basically, the game has to be designed explicitly to allow them to be played. Depends on your opinion on balance of changing the game so radically 7+ years into this meta that ADC players have become accustomed to it. Now with this change, maybe we have a shift in player base, where ADCs go play other roles (Kindred buffs could bring them back to the jg meta for e.g) and bruiser players move to bot lane.
Basically, this is a Huni buff. Top lane is the AD role now
Ez/Lucian/Kaisa and even Draven/Jihn all seem to be fine in yoloq. I can't play right now so is it really that bad or just usual massive overreaction? Like last year when Varus/Jihn were shitting on people yet ADCs whined so hard that they were irrelevant.
On June 09 2018 20:29 Numy wrote: Ez/Lucian/Kaisa and even Draven/Jihn all seem to be fine in yoloq. I can't play right now so is it really that bad or just usual massive overreaction? Like last year when Varus/Jihn were shitting on people yet ADCs whined so hard that they were irrelevant.
All champs that don't focus on crit are fine. The only thing that is still kind of a problem for bruisers bot is junglers doing lvl 2 ganks. Because crab is a thing sadly.
On June 09 2018 19:23 evilfatsh1t wrote: im genuinely interested in what riots balance teams reaction was to the adc nerfs and the current yasuo/morde/vlad bot meta. "job well done boys"
They've been trying to remove the "you have to have an ADC" thing for a while now. Morde rework being the first obvious move towards this. They basically said, "yeah we want IE ADCs to be an option but not be mandatory."
The issue is in my opinion, the only time morde was actually viable is when his numbers were disgustingly broken, and now when IE ADCs (With some exceptions) are completely useless in early/mid game. Basically, the game has to be designed explicitly to allow them to be played. Depends on your opinion on balance of changing the game so radically 7+ years into this meta that ADC players have become accustomed to it. Now with this change, maybe we have a shift in player base, where ADCs go play other roles (Kindred buffs could bring them back to the jg meta for e.g) and bruiser players move to bot lane.
Basically, this is a Huni buff. Top lane is the AD role now
well im an ex dota player so i dont care about lane assignments. dota has it right where lane positions/roles etc are very fluid. the only issue with lol is that no adc at bot lane usually means adcs are just shit in general and cant go to any lane. this is a balance failure rather than success
That's meant a game state where marksmen have been effectively a required pick as a result. A lot of players have called us on that, in particular that we've talked of wanting to support more diversity, but haven't opened up the most consistent part of team comps.
Our biggest goal with mid-season is to change that, make it so it's a really effective choice to sometimes run a comp that doesn't have a marksmen in bot lane, or potentially doesn't have a marksmen at all. It's kind of workable at present, but we agree should be a lot more so. That's likely to involve work on items for non marksmen bot lanes, adjusting some supports so that they've got stronger synergies with non marksmen, maybe changes to things like how towers take damage even. We generally want to stay away changing individual champs so that they go bot though, this is about opening up the position to other classes, not putting mechanics on champs that are bot lane specific.
Pretty sure both are viable, pro ADC players are just overstating the situation to try to get adc buffs. Sure you have to play a subset of the ADCs right now, but that is ALWAYS true at a competitive level.
That's meant a game state where marksmen have been effectively a required pick as a result. A lot of players have called us on that, in particular that we've talked of wanting to support more diversity, but haven't opened up the most consistent part of team comps.
Our biggest goal with mid-season is to change that, make it so it's a really effective choice to sometimes run a comp that doesn't have a marksmen in bot lane, or potentially doesn't have a marksmen at all. It's kind of workable at present, but we agree should be a lot more so. That's likely to involve work on items for non marksmen bot lanes, adjusting some supports so that they've got stronger synergies with non marksmen, maybe changes to things like how towers take damage even. We generally want to stay away changing individual champs so that they go bot though, this is about opening up the position to other classes, not putting mechanics on champs that are bot lane specific.
On June 10 2018 10:06 Gahlo wrote: Looked it up, apparently Riot decided that ARAM sullied the mastery system because it wasn't true competition or some bullshit.
They just made aram compare to aram stats, like how summoners rift compares to summoners rift stats.
You now have to actually play "well", as in the top % of aram games on the champ, same as summoners rift, compared to before where they were basically free if you just kda whored in a winning game.
On June 10 2018 10:06 Gahlo wrote: Looked it up, apparently Riot decided that ARAM sullied the mastery system because it wasn't true competition or some bullshit.
They just made aram compare to aram stats, like how summoners rift compares to summoners rift stats.
You now have to actually play "well", as in the top % of aram games on the champ, same as summoners rift, compared to before where they were basically free if you just kda whored in a winning game.
KDA whoring actually didn't work in ARAM, since doing so tended to leave you low in other metrics. It was harder to get an S in ARAM than it was on SR.
On June 10 2018 10:06 Gahlo wrote: Looked it up, apparently Riot decided that ARAM sullied the mastery system because it wasn't true competition or some bullshit.
They just made aram compare to aram stats, like how summoners rift compares to summoners rift stats.
You now have to actually play "well", as in the top % of aram games on the champ, same as summoners rift, compared to before where they were basically free if you just kda whored in a winning game.
KDA whoring actually didn't work in ARAM, since doing so tended to leave you low in other metrics. It was harder to get an S in ARAM than it was on SR.
I vaguely remember everyone getting S's every time there was a stomp where one teamcomp just sucked. People just farmed kills for 20 minutes then had insane kda's and all get at least s-/s.
Was a while ago though, and stomps don't seem as common anymore. Guess reroll's help too.
I wish Riot would leave the game alone for like 6 months and actually get a big enough sample size to figure out what really needs to be changed. No new champion, no buffs, no nerfs no jungle or item changes. Just let the meta develop. Or even a whole season.
Soooo are they going to make him grow in size with each auto attack? Like a walking rageblade that gets stronger the longer it's in combat?
Think it's just the perspective that make him look that big, considering his model he is already a fairly big guy compared to the human champs. Riot mentioned they wanted his autos to feel big and brutal so he probably have something with a low fixed attack speed.
On June 11 2018 22:56 JimmiC wrote: That is a fairly sensible request. But if you were in the group that felt "wronged" for that season the rage might be too much. I think part of what riot has done well is keep the game changing enough that people who get all butt hurt about a change know another change is coming down the pipe fairly soon.
Riven 2.0 aka new Aatrox looks fun, but no way my old hands can cope with these abilities, I cant even land present Q reliably enough. So, farewell good old 2nd or 3rd most played champ. I adapted to rengar's rework, I even adapted to swain's rework but I wont be able to handle this one:-))
EPT
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