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Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
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Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
Patch 8.10: Live on May. 16th, 2018
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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Playing with losing lanes is gonna be 10x worse for junglers now. Don't see how this doesn't reduce viability of picks.
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Wait...
Does this mean you need 4 camps to hit level 3?
Unreal. The hard nerfs. First we farmed too much, nerf that respawn CD. Now we gank too much and have too much influence, better nerf the jungle experience. Not exactly sure what they want junglers to do.
Also, these changes are brutal to Kindred. She really should get compensated imo.
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On May 16 2018 12:31 iCanada wrote:
Wait...
Does this mean you need 4 camps to hit level 3?
Unreal. The hard nerfs. First we farmed too much, nerf that respawn CD. Now we gank too much and have too much influence, better nerf the jungle experience. Not exactly sure what they want junglers to do.
Also, these changes are brutal to Kindred. She really should get compensated imo.
There should be no fog of war until the 20 minute mark. That would fix jungling for sure!
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I hate the scuttle changes a lot.
Legit its so much XP its kinda ridiculous. First scuttle camp basically snowballs the game; you get big dick XP lead (including fast level 4, with 2 camp breathing room), then you can easily go get the other scuttle, and then continue to get the rest of the scuttles all game. Like basically whole jungle is decided by first scuttle crab.
Even worse... they say they changed the jungle because it felt bad for top laners to have to rely on their jungler getting priority and / or winning the 2v2 in order to influence the game... I don't even have an XP lead over the lanes as a jungler anymore, and I NEED that crab, or at least to have enough lane priority so that he can't take it either. Basically whole game is suddenly hoping my lanes have priority during the first scuttle skirmish, otherwise I'm guaranteed to be WAY behind. Awful.
This is going to kill jungle diversity. Can't pick a champ unless it can skirmish for that crab. I'ma assume you'll see like Lee+Rek+Xin+WW almost exclusively.
That or we will see like buff>scuttle become new standard with junglers trading sides (or starting where their lanes should be winning and shoving). I imagine you get level 3 off of Buff+Camp+scuttle and can gank same time anyway.
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On May 16 2018 12:31 iCanada wrote:
Wait...
Does this mean you need 4 camps to hit level 3?
Unreal. The hard nerfs. First we farmed too much, nerf that respawn CD. Now we gank too much and have too much influence, better nerf the jungle experience. Not exactly sure what they want junglers to do.
Also, these changes are brutal to Kindred. She really should get compensated imo.
well she did get a buff to her passive now so it seems riot did notice she would struggle.
and i would have thought that they wanted junglers to be more involved in the vision game...except they got rid of the trackers knife too.
On May 16 2018 12:58 iCanada wrote:
I hate the scuttle changes a lot.
Legit its so much XP its kinda ridiculous. First scuttle camp basically snowballs the game; you get big dick XP lead (including fast level 4, with 2 camp breathing room), then you can easily go get the other scuttle, and then continue to get the rest of the scuttles all game. Like basically whole jungle is decided by first scuttle crab.
Even worse... they say they changed the jungle because it felt bad for top laners to have to rely on their jungler getting priority and / or winning the 2v2 in order to influence the game... I don't even have an XP lead over the lanes as a jungler anymore, and I NEED that crab, or at least to have enough lane priority so that he can't take it either. Basically whole game is suddenly hoping my lanes have priority during the first scuttle skirmish, otherwise I'm guaranteed to be WAY behind. Awful.
This is going to kill jungle diversity. Can't pick a champ unless it can skirmish for that crab. I'ma assume you'll see like Lee+Rek+Xin+WW almost exclusively.
That or we will see like buff>scuttle become new standard with junglers trading sides (or starting where their lanes should be winning and shoving). I imagine you get level 3 off of Buff+Camp+scuttle and can gank same time anyway.
you do realise there are 2 scuttles at the start...
if you have a weak jungler or your laners dont have priority then start the opposite side. id bet that some junglers will just go for scuttle at lvl 2 and smite it before going to their 2nd buff.
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Wait what gives, I thought this was Pyke's patch?
Holy shit I can't believe they're killing the "junglers build taragons brace for sightstone thing". They killed sightstone for junglers and just decided "nah fuck it they don't get to ward".
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I think they want duo top lane back. LOL.
Its even funnier because I usually run Jungle+Fill, and in my 290 ranked games this season I've played 2 games not as jungle... so clearly jungle is the least popular role as it was.
On May 16 2018 12:59 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 12:31 iCanada wrote:
Wait...
Does this mean you need 4 camps to hit level 3?
Unreal. The hard nerfs. First we farmed too much, nerf that respawn CD. Now we gank too much and have too much influence, better nerf the jungle experience. Not exactly sure what they want junglers to do.
Also, these changes are brutal to Kindred. She really should get compensated imo. well she did get a buff to her passive now so it seems riot did notice she would struggle. and i would have thought that they wanted junglers to be more involved in the vision game...except they got rid of the trackers knife too. Show nested quote +On May 16 2018 12:58 iCanada wrote:
I hate the scuttle changes a lot.
Legit its so much XP its kinda ridiculous. First scuttle camp basically snowballs the game; you get big dick XP lead (including fast level 4, with 2 camp breathing room), then you can easily go get the other scuttle, and then continue to get the rest of the scuttles all game. Like basically whole jungle is decided by first scuttle crab.
Even worse... they say they changed the jungle because it felt bad for top laners to have to rely on their jungler getting priority and / or winning the 2v2 in order to influence the game... I don't even have an XP lead over the lanes as a jungler anymore, and I NEED that crab, or at least to have enough lane priority so that he can't take it either. Basically whole game is suddenly hoping my lanes have priority during the first scuttle skirmish, otherwise I'm guaranteed to be WAY behind. Awful.
This is going to kill jungle diversity. Can't pick a champ unless it can skirmish for that crab. I'ma assume you'll see like Lee+Rek+Xin+WW almost exclusively.
That or we will see like buff>scuttle become new standard with junglers trading sides (or starting where their lanes should be winning and shoving). I imagine you get level 3 off of Buff+Camp+scuttle and can gank same time anyway. you do realise there are 2 scuttles at the start... if you have a weak jungler or your laners dont have priority then start the opposite side. id bet that some junglers will just go for scuttle at lvl 2 and smite it before going to their 2nd buff.
I mean, best case you're just delaying same scuttle crab hard snowball thing till 4:30.
Idk... Not sure how I am supposed to influence a game. Can't gank. Can't ward. Can't farm... Maybe it wont be bad, but these are pretty big nerfs.
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On May 16 2018 13:02 iCanada wrote:
Its even funnier because I usually run Jungle+Fill, and in my 290 ranked games this season I've played 2 games not as jungle... so clearly jungle is the least popular role as it was.
They changed the system so that people get their primary more often, most people get their primary 95% of the time when queuing for solo, at least on EUW in gold-low diamond.
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The more I think about it I think lanes will like this less. I'd hazard a guess that seeing a level 2 gank after a leashless smite becomes much more likely.
You can start opposite side of other jungler then buff>gank>scuttle and it's basically impossible to punish. Feels coin flip-y.
You basically split the map at this point and be behind like a third of a level at best while you likely won top with no counter play available. Doesn't even fix the perceived problem... which imo is mostly a bad player problem anyway. When's the last time you saw like KZ Khan die to a level 3 gank? Not to mention, your jungler should have a say in getting vision and threatening a countergank as well.
I don't like scuttle becoming more important; I think the most fun part of jungling is out smarting your opponent for a lead. Scuttle change makes most optimal play "Get scuttle" most of the time. Makes jungle matchups much more hard counter-y because you can't outsmart them, you have to contest that scuttle or bleed out regardless.
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maybe not as much in solo but in pro play I can't see being able to have the better push level 1 being incredibly high priority. Picking a melee mid feels like a hard int on paper,
A sol seems like he'll be busted
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I hate Sol. Granted it was fun watching Caps play the champ because he's a rare pick, but when he's meta, it really blows having him roam bot lane while keeping up in cs, results in a lot of flaming and blaming each other. But what changed in him for this patch?
Riot once again buffing random AP ratios, this time on Sion and Zac. They seem to be catering to some niche crowd.
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Lane priority is already super good. What is the rationale for making it better (aside from Kai'Sa favoritism)?
On May 16 2018 16:20 DarkCore wrote:
I hate Sol. Granted it was fun watching Caps play the champ because he's a rare pick, but when he's meta, it really blows having him roam bot lane while keeping up in cs, results in a lot of flaming and blaming each other. But what changed in him for this patch?
Riot once again buffing random AP ratios, this time on Sion and Zac. They seem to be catering to some niche crowd.
A-Sol and Jihn are the lamest champs in the game.
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On May 16 2018 13:02 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Wait what gives, I thought this was Pyke's patch?
Holy shit I can't believe they're killing the "junglers build taragons brace for sightstone thing". They killed sightstone for junglers and just decided "nah fuck it they don't get to ward".
Pyke just went on the PBE yesterday. Riot's MO is 1) Tease and announce a champ before a patch 2) Patch comes out 3) New champ goes on PBE.
Speaking of... Yesterday on the PBE
http://www.surrenderat20.net/2018/05/515-pbe-update.html
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dat nerf to khazix evolved ulti
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That's a nerf? I hate the champ with a passion, when I don't ban Kai'sa in my games he's always the next ban. Snowballs way too hard and easily on soloQ.
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They had Khazix changes up last PBE cycle but decided to not put it in patch. Really confused why they go and butcher other champs while being insanely cautious with Khazix. There just should not exist stealth in this game that has zero ability to be interacted. That kind of thing has to be either extremely rare or on a very long cooldown. Just fucking remove that from his R, how hard is that.
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On May 16 2018 21:10 DarkCore wrote:
That's a nerf? I hate the champ with a passion, when I don't ban Kai'sa in my games he's always the next ban. Snowballs way too hard and easily on soloQ.
his automatic invis was one of the biggest reasons why he was ban priority in korean solo q. probably everywhere else too.
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On May 16 2018 21:14 Numy wrote:
They had Khazix changes up last PBE cycle but decided to not put it in patch. Really confused why they go and butcher other champs while being insanely cautious with Khazix. There just should not exist stealth in this game that has zero ability to be interacted. That kind of thing has to be either extremely rare or on a very long cooldown. Just fucking remove that from his R, how hard is that.
Yeah. I'm fine if the bullshit invis was hit ult active because it's such a short duration, but "lul wards never matter" of the passive has to go.
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On May 16 2018 21:14 Numy wrote:
They had Khazix changes up last PBE cycle but decided to not put it in patch. Really confused why they go and butcher other champs while being insanely cautious with Khazix. There just should not exist stealth in this game that has zero ability to be interacted. That kind of thing has to be either extremely rare or on a very long cooldown. Just fucking remove that from his R, how hard is that.
Because without it, nobody will upgrade it. And Riot made a big deal of making "every evolution possible" when they 'reworked' him.
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He's still the only champ they care so much about while they just leave others in the gutter. Having an invis that is not detectable by wards or heroes is extremely easy to break. Then making that invis a passive on a short cool down is so insanely irresponsible I question the design team.
Having invis that isn't detected by wards but by heroes is pretty cool. We see that in Dota via the Smoke item. It allows some interesting dynamics. I never got why they did this whole invisibility rework then decided to basically make invis even worse to play against than before.
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I never got why they did this whole invisibility rework then decided to basically make invis even worse to play against than before.
Lots of stealth champions are pretty strong soloQ champions, even in KR Challenger, like Rengar/Eve. But Kha blows them out of the water, and I'm pretty sure it's because of his stupidly powerful ult/passive. Stealth is highly desirable, it's like being invulnerable but your opponent has even less outplay potential.
Can't count the number of times I've legit thought 'I know Kha is somewhere on this half of the map, let me place a ward... Oh I'm dead before I was even in range to put down the ward'. Not to mention that being invisible to wards means that placing them in brushes is almost a bad idea, because the time you see him on the minimap is incredibly small, very easy to miss him popping up on the screen.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
One day they will remove smite and junglers from the game >D
Better 2v2v1 lanes !
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Ok. Just brainstorming here, but the changes to hunters talisman to giving a lot of mana regen based on missing mana might make the jungle a good place for champs with short cool downs who were intended to be gated by mana costs.
Taric is the first champ that comes to mind, but maybe even someone like Annie or Cass could work. If they didn’t run out of mana they could maybe have solid clear speeds.
Edit: now I feel dumb. It was pointed out to me that the powerful champion with a great kit, low cool downs and high mana costs who might make it in the jungle is probably Camille.
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honestly guys as someone who prefers to play level 4 clear junglers I haven't noticed the difference yet aside from extra crab xp
I just clear my whole jungle and go about my business and ignore the whole crab politics like I usually do works out fine
I mean if it's that important pick a crab and get one of them
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On May 16 2018 13:02 iCanada wrote:
I think they want duo top lane back. LOL.
Its even funnier because I usually run Jungle+Fill, and in my 290 ranked games this season I've played 2 games not as jungle... so clearly jungle is the least popular role as it was.
I fill most of my games and I feel pretty comfortable saying the least popular role is toplane.
I get placed top the vast majority, then followed by either jg or support. Those 2 have been fairly even in terms of filling. Sometimes I just choose a role because 'fill' just became 'top'.
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Day one of this patch was a giagantic fiesta in the river every game. I hope people can assess the true value of the scuttle soon so I don’t have to defend my jungler or have my jungler kill himself and lose all pressure for the rest of the game after 1 wave of cs
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I played 7 games this patch and so far nobody seemed to care about the change (mid gold elo). I can't remember a single game where a laner roamed early to help with crab. Heck, I'm not sure junglers in my games actually tried to secure crab early.
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Makes me glad I play ARAMs predominantly, so I can avoid bad jungle metas.
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I don’t think it does matter that much but until everyone is on the same page a lot of dumb first bloods are going out
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I'm glad I'm so bad that by the time people at my elo abuse it, it has already been nerfed...
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I was playing normals lol
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scuttle did seem nice but i dont think its insane enough that people have to go smite on solo laners? had an 1/8/7 enemy jg vs me as 7/3/11 jg - I secured first 8 scuttles and we had same cs. I took his every blue too. Only time I outleveled him was level 5 to 4 and after that we were even. only thing he did was take 2 raptor camps but dont think that should offset everything else. he taxed a good amount of minions compared to me though but I just find it silly he was still same level with all that
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ok I'm watching Sneaky and it's the same shit 4 people in river at 2 min.
@above,
I'm not convinced it's that OP either but people just seem to be willing to fight to the death for it, and if one of them is your teammate it can be game losing not to help them it feels like.
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To be honest, I don't understand why early game needs more objectives. A big problem imo is objective overload with towers, dragon, and rift herald. Scuttler is a different type and kind of it, but it does tend to overload the game imo. I still prefer the old gold giving dragon, with additional jungle camps being added that are very deep in your own jungle (like by base gates).
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i can finally whip out the ivern jungle
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Most people don't care here, but the ARAM changes are desperately needed, the mode has gotten pretty unenjoyable as people figure out what works well over the years. Specifically, Dark Harvest and Warmogs are the most broken mechanics by a an extremely large margin, I've legit started running DH on AP champions because the burst is significantly better than the Sorcery tree. and Warmogs shuts down all forms of harass, making it possible to simply wear your opponent down with a tank team.
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i am a bit skeptical on the spear thing, fighters like fiora, jax, kled do fairly well atm imo and making them kind of unkillable for several seconds may prove too much of strength, but we shall see
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The warding changes are really uncomfortable mid. I think ultimately it’s good for the Game but I feel very exposed levels 3-10~ definitely got me in gear for buying pinks more often.
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Okay, opinions on jungle changes. Firstly, if you're playing a jungler that can't 1v1 well at lvl 2-5 then u should set up a jungle split. Avoid scuttles and just go farm their opposite jungle. Barely any XP differences. Jungle is weaker, by a bit.
Ward changes are good for the game. IMO should still remove all free wards.
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Ads, what junglers do you play / playstyle do you typically use? I'd call myself a "hard carry" style jungler (for example, last season I averaged 80 more GPM than challenger junglers), and I just feel like I have zero influence on the game
Idk, since the patch hit I've seen my winrate drop like 5%. Part of that is likely me getting closer to my "true ELO" (did exceptionally poorly in my placements while duoing with a buddy who just hit level 30, was placed S4. Finished last season P3. Currently G1.), so it could largely be normal and a "no-cebo" effect, but I feel so impotent in every game I play.
I've played a few games where I won a couple skirmishes and ended up like 3 buff + 6 camping first clear, like hard dicking the other jungler to the point where I should be able to just walk wherever I want and kill everything and hard 1v9, and I just... couldn't influence the game hard enough and lost. Feels really hard to snowball without the early XP; even when you pop off you're barely ahead of bot lane in XP, and behind solo laners.
Although it seems my favorite champs have all seen a winrate increase? (Shyv, Mundo[well, given the hard nerfs, his winrate same as last patch], Udyr)
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cant hard carry on mundo and udyr okay
have you tried actually not just inting into the enemy team what they are both insane when they are fed
honestly you get more xp past level 7 with crab xp buff and the no level xp penalty thing, both pretty big when you are ahead
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Hey man, you just got to ban Lulu, Morg, Janna, Rakan, Soraka, Karma, Thresh, and... etc and you can hard carry on Udyr all day.
^_^
I also legit do think you can hard carry on Mundo.
If its not just a psychological thing, my theory is that the lower XP earlier makes it way harder to influence bottom lane, and bottom lane is in fact OP.
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are you implying all supports counter udyr i guess he's a trash champion then
you know you have a team too you don't have to run 1v2 into enemy duo without anyone helping you
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Stoked for all these lck games dominated by usyr and mundo
And LPL of course. Love our new Chinese udyr overlords
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Udyr being bad was the joke Teut. <_< I have a love hate relationship with Udyr, playing him can feel so aids. Today I picked him into Trundle because Graves/Mundo/Xin were all banned and he poops on Shyv... Their bot lane locked in Ezreal+Janna. Ugh. #GetMeOutOfHere
Realistically, I know I'm probably just playing bad too used to stomping bad players. Need to get my mental in the right place.
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On May 23 2018 08:28 iCanada wrote:
Ads, what junglers do you play / playstyle do you typically use? I'd call myself a "hard carry" style jungler (for example, last season I averaged 80 more GPM than challenger junglers), and I just feel like I have zero influence on the game
Idk, since the patch hit I've seen my winrate drop like 5%. Part of that is likely me getting closer to my "true ELO" (did exceptionally poorly in my placements while duoing with a buddy who just hit level 30, was placed S4. Finished last season P3. Currently G1.), so it could largely be normal and a "no-cebo" effect, but I feel so impotent in every game I play.
I've played a few games where I won a couple skirmishes and ended up like 3 buff + 6 camping first clear, like hard dicking the other jungler to the point where I should be able to just walk wherever I want and kill everything and hard 1v9, and I just... couldn't influence the game hard enough and lost. Feels really hard to snowball without the early XP; even when you pop off you're barely ahead of bot lane in XP, and behind solo laners.
Although it seems my favorite champs have all seen a win rate increase? (Shyv, Mundo[well, given the hard nerfs, his winrate same as last patch], Udyr)
I mainly play rek'sai/graves/elise. Elise still sucks but is fun to play. Rek sucks if you fall behind and once you go past 30 minutes it's extremely difficult to influence the game. Graves is broken but doesn't go through pb that often.
You need to play aggro early and then just farm out from like 8-15 mins focusing on scuttle. Make sure you ping it like a motherfker so your laners come. Then from then on you can start to become more influential imo.
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I thought the only junglers were Xin, Graves, Shaco, K6, Rengar, Skarner and Trundle. I've never heard of this Udyr or Mundo you guys are talking about.
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On May 23 2018 09:42 cLutZ wrote:
Stoked for all these lck games dominated by usyr and mundo
And LPL of course. Love our new Chinese udyr overlords
i mean solo q and pro play are different beasts
udyrs main problem is he's weak when he doesn't get fed and especially against adcs with high damage
i dunno why everyone hates plays vs ez as udyr as far as im concerned he's about average difficulty
there are many much worse champs to play against such as kog maw vayne and kalista
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On May 24 2018 03:54 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2018 09:42 cLutZ wrote:
Stoked for all these lck games dominated by usyr and mundo
And LPL of course. Love our new Chinese udyr overlords i mean solo q and pro play are different beasts udyrs main problem is he's weak when he doesn't get fed and especially against adcs with high damage i dunno why everyone hates plays vs ez as udyr as far as im concerned he's about average difficulty there are many much worse champs to play against such as kog maw vayne and kalista
Doesn't good Ezreals just build Iceborne and kite Udyr all day with Qs?
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For what it’s worth I’m still jungling as predator Cho and winning games. I mean a laner hard feeding early can wreck everything, but most games go pretty smoothly. I’m lower elo than you (silver MMR rather than gold), but where I am, babysitting bottom lane usually works. Just gank bot lane once every 90 seconds and force summons or do damage to force backs and even if you don’t get kills the cumulative effect just puts th enemy bot lane so far behind that it’s an easy game. Though I suppose if you want to solo carry that’s not viable.
In the new patch I’ve also played a few games as Camille and really like her as well. She just kills the scuttle like no one’s business.
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On May 24 2018 04:49 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2018 03:54 Slayer91 wrote:On May 23 2018 09:42 cLutZ wrote:
Stoked for all these lck games dominated by usyr and mundo
And LPL of course. Love our new Chinese udyr overlords i mean solo q and pro play are different beasts udyrs main problem is he's weak when he doesn't get fed and especially against adcs with high damage i dunno why everyone hates plays vs ez as udyr as far as im concerned he's about average difficulty there are many much worse champs to play against such as kog maw vayne and kalista Doesn't good Ezreals just build Iceborne and kite Udyr all day with Qs?
I mean if you really want to play the game in a 1v1 vs ezreal you can get RG dodge one Q and catch up
but the important point here that ez qing from max range in a teamfight really isn't a big problem
just kill the other 4 dodge q's if you can
i mean if he's 5 items yea its a problem but if udyr is farmed about the same as ez its np
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Idk, Ezreal not the worst carry for them to have, but like, at the same time I'd much rather they picked like Jhin, MF, or Ashe.
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Yo, you guys make Ezreal sound like a bad champion. He dumps on Udyr so hard, you can go IBG and it's very strong but honestly if you're good enough, once you get BotRK you can kite him long enough to kill him unless he's full tank or insanely fed. Udyr is not really naturally tanky, his shield is pretty mediocre outside of small skirmishes. If Udyr can run at your ADC without getting stopped by CC, then your support either sucks or game is already over.
Just pick Braum and blow on Udyr when he tries to run at your team. Or play Janna and laugh even harder. Only way Udyr is going to win games is during the early/mid game, where he either has to seriously set lanes behind, or counter jungle the shit out of his opponent. Then he can transition to a split push strategy or just bring the game to a close because his team has snowballed.
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Udyr's strength is 100% his ability to not interact with any team at all and still hardcarry the game by taking everything on the map. Giving him some kills only speeds up this process. If the team can stall easily, he can just spit forever and not be taken down, his movement speed can become so obnoxious.
He can easily farm to 10 or more cs/minute if played correctly, steal every camp, get every dragon/scuttle/... and if you show up, he can just say: nope, and back the fuck off. There's no real investment in him doing any of those high risk things (like solo'ing a neutral objective or invading), because he's so hard to catch.
A good Udyr player (mostly talking someone with a brain), will render your (or the enemy) team completly frustrated to the point they just do some shit and lose because the situation felt so desperate.
Sometimes it feels like teams lose by just rolling over, right? Even at the nexus their attempts to defend feel like a joke.. Well, Udyr is a master of making way of the game playing out happen.
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On May 24 2018 18:41 DarkCore wrote:
Yo, you guys make Ezreal sound like a bad champion.
He is not a bad champ, but all the autofills and monkeys play him and Q from far and then wank over their damage stats.
Also yeah, if you are teamfighting as Udyr then you are not doing your job.
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So what you saying is when my Udyr the other day decided to just split push 24/7 after we got an early lead in the game he was doing the right thing? Us losing the game 4v5 was merely our own fault for not playing around the "die -> run out to lane -> die -> run out to lane" udyr strat!???
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On May 24 2018 18:41 DarkCore wrote:
Yo, you guys make Ezreal sound like a bad champion. He dumps on Udyr so hard, you can go IBG and it's very strong but honestly if you're good enough, once you get BotRK you can kite him long enough to kill him unless he's full tank or insanely fed. Udyr is not really naturally tanky, his shield is pretty mediocre outside of small skirmishes. If Udyr can run at your ADC without getting stopped by CC, then your support either sucks or game is already over.
Just pick Braum and blow on Udyr when he tries to run at your team. Or play Janna and laugh even harder. Only way Udyr is going to win games is during the early/mid game, where he either has to seriously set lanes behind, or counter jungle the shit out of his opponent. Then he can transition to a split push strategy or just bring the game to a close because his team has snowballed.
Obviously he has counters, but who cares if Ezreal can kite him to death? Many adc's can do the trick, but still udyr is popular and being played at high rating with fair success. You gotta remember that in order to truly counter, you gotta play it perfectly. And that doesn't happen until you reach diamond'ish level and even then you still see udyrs juking Ezreal/Janna Q or not taking the "bait" and just going ham onto the front-line because you have decent sustain in fights and can easily maneuver around.
If you do however decide to just run at an Ezreal who has IBG/Botrk well yea, you're prolly gonna die. Which is why as Udyr it's extremely important to be mechanically superior and have 200 IQ.
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On May 24 2018 18:41 DarkCore wrote:
Yo, you guys make Ezreal sound like a bad champion. He dumps on Udyr so hard, you can go IBG and it's very strong but honestly if you're good enough, once you get BotRK you can kite him long enough to kill him unless he's full tank or insanely fed. Udyr is not really naturally tanky, his shield is pretty mediocre outside of small skirmishes. If Udyr can run at your ADC without getting stopped by CC, then your support either sucks or game is already over.
Just pick Braum and blow on Udyr when he tries to run at your team. Or play Janna and laugh even harder. Only way Udyr is going to win games is during the early/mid game, where he either has to seriously set lanes behind, or counter jungle the shit out of his opponent. Then he can transition to a split push strategy or just bring the game to a close because his team has snowballed.
You seem to miss the fact that if ezreal is focusing udyr it means he isn't focusing the actual important targets. Even if you can literally never get hit by udyr it still takes a long time to kill him. Especially with the new build how exactly do you get bork and arpen while stacking 2nd tear? Ezreal in general really isn't good if you can't get to squishies.
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I mean maybe I have a different opinion since I've always been playing mostly tank udyr and focusing on teamfights. I'm not going squishy and I'm farming pretty well if we're not getting donezo'd early game. I don't even split push on udyr most of the time.
And if you're split pushing like most people seem to think that's the best way to play, you literally don't care about enemy support+adc at all so that whole chain of argument is a dead end.
Basically running at the ADC in a teamfight is usually a bad idea as most decent players will just focus you down and kite back. There are situations where the enemy overdives and they have a support that can't help that well, or you're overfed, and if they have something like Jhin maybe you can just run up and one shot him. My mindset is that as long as Ez isn't hitting any important targets I try to ignore him, and when he tries to hit anyone except me or another tank I try to run in for a short 2v1 to at least force him to E away.
The problem is when they are super fed and you can't even tank them for a few seconds, you basically have to perma run away from them and then try to run in and one shot them with your team if they dive in too close. This is how you basically play lategame teamfights where your ADC can do the same thing. The reason Ez is sometimes not too scary is because his short auto range allows your teammates to easily turn on him with you, and an underfed Ez just firing Q's from max range doesn't provide enough of a teamfight threat to justify diving after him.
That said, I didn't say Ez was an easier ADC to deal with than Jhin, I just said he's about middle of the pack. There are ADCs easier and harder, you guys mentioning the easier ADCs is ignoring my point entirely.
You would never try to 1v2 in top lane at 25 minutes for example so why would you try to 1v2 enemy ADC and support.
On May 24 2018 18:41 DarkCore wrote:
Yo, you guys make Ezreal sound like a bad champion. He dumps on Udyr so hard, you can go IBG and it's very strong but honestly if you're good enough, once you get BotRK you can kite him long enough to kill him unless he's full tank or insanely fed. Udyr is not really naturally tanky, his shield is pretty mediocre outside of small skirmishes. If Udyr can run at your ADC without getting stopped by CC, then your support either sucks or game is already over.
Just pick Braum and blow on Udyr when he tries to run at your team. Or play Janna and laugh even harder. Only way Udyr is going to win games is during the early/mid game, where he either has to seriously set lanes behind, or counter jungle the shit out of his opponent. Then he can transition to a split push strategy or just bring the game to a close because his team has snowballed.
Well I would say most ppl would agree that Ez isn't the best champ at dealing with tanks. If Udyr is a generic tank which is sort of how I play him then it's just Ez vs a generic tank which doesn't sound so bad.
Ornn isn't naturally tanky either but most people wouldn't think he's too easy to kill. The main challenge on Udyr is catching up to the EHP levels of a regular tank building tank items while also getting a trinity force. (You want maybe 2k more gold and make up for the rest with good use of W, better EHP from items such as stoneplate, plus trinity gives some hp).
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Does anyone know how Clash assigns a tier to players?
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/2b29eb34b5b237c3eecb66d21563d4bc.png)
In this Drudt is P4 Flex and P5 Solo whereas I am P1 Flex and unranked in Solo and I'm a lower tier. Kot is P3 Flex/G1 Solo and Teut/WK are D5/P1.
Overall the tiers just seems kind of weird?
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I think mmr weighted higher than league and soloqueue weighed higher than flexy.
Seems kinda random though.
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Iirc it doesn’t effect your team as the team seeding is based on the highest player only
(Don’t think that was the question but worth noting)
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Okay guys, i think it´s time to talk about Future's Market and why i believe it's such an OP rune.
So you get it on farm-dependant junglers like shyvana. The idea is that you borrow gold and end up in minus and then as the game progresses the loan-value increases. This means that at some point you can back with 3k gold and still be able to afford expensive items like hydra and botrk.
But that wasn't really why i wanna talk about it. I started running it exclusively on supports with the mind-set that i can buy items even when i'm down on gold. Those games where you get 0 global gold this rune becomes extremely valueable, because you can still afford something rather than nothing. And you're only giving up runes like approach velocity which is more of a comfort-choice.
Anyone else who have tried this? Borrowing your way to victory seems pretty broken in my book.
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my issue with futures market is you only benefit from the rune if you are actually short on gold. if you have enough money with every back then you get pretty much no value out of it. the only problem is its not that hard to delay your back a little to get that gold lol.
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I'm talking about junglers, who can't always get the gold they want if all camps are down. Or supports who can't farm gold and are reliant on global income to build items. Fuck getting it on carries lol
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On May 26 2018 17:53 Sponkz wrote:
I'm talking about junglers, who can't always get the gold they want if all camps are down. Or supports who can't farm gold and are reliant on global income to build items. Fuck getting it on carries lol
It happens too rarely to use it, I guess. I liked basing and getting pots on support though. It'd be cool if the rune had like a gp/10 aspect to it as well.
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just stick around and look for a gank/counter gank?
the only time youre really forced to go back is if you are completely out of mana or out of health. getting futures market specifically for use on those rare occasions (keep in mind the chances of you actually being short on money in those specific scenarios is even lower) is pretty hit and miss. rather just get a rune i know gives me guaranteed value
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Soraka silence is actually the most bullshit ability btw.
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Yeah, good Soraka's are fucking ass to play against.
The biggest problem I see with how useful Future's Market can be is that you have to already want to be in inspiration in the first place. On supports, that isn't much of a problem, but with junglers I can see that being tricky.
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On May 26 2018 21:45 Gahlo wrote:
Yeah, good Soraka's are fucking ass to play against.
The biggest problem I see with how useful Future's Market can be is that you have to already want to be in inspiration in the first place. On supports, that isn't much of a problem, but with junglers I can see that being tricky.
Good Sorakas?
Bad Sorakas are ass to play against, medium Sorakas are just as rage inducing as Janna and good Sorakas make you want to uninstall the game, your OS and throw your computer out of the window after you've broken your fist as you punch the wall.
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On May 26 2018 14:40 Sponkz wrote:
Okay guys, i think it´s time to talk about Future's Market and why i believe it's such an OP rune.
So you get it on farm-dependant junglers like shyvana. The idea is that you borrow gold and end up in minus and then as the game progresses the loan-value increases. This means that at some point you can back with 3k gold and still be able to afford expensive items like hydra and botrk.
But that wasn't really why i wanna talk about it. I started running it exclusively on supports with the mind-set that i can buy items even when i'm down on gold. Those games where you get 0 global gold this rune becomes extremely valueable, because you can still afford something rather than nothing. And you're only giving up runes like approach velocity which is more of a comfort-choice.
Anyone else who have tried this? Borrowing your way to victory seems pretty broken in my book.
all ill say about this post is there are some credit card companies who would be very interested in your business
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On May 26 2018 22:09 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2018 21:45 Gahlo wrote:
Yeah, good Soraka's are fucking ass to play against.
The biggest problem I see with how useful Future's Market can be is that you have to already want to be in inspiration in the first place. On supports, that isn't much of a problem, but with junglers I can see that being tricky. Good Sorakas? Bad Sorakas are ass to play against, medium Sorakas are just as rage inducing as Janna and good Sorakas make you want to uninstall the game, your OS and throw your computer out of the window after you've broken your fist as you punch the wall.
says the guy with janna as his icon
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Janna-Soraka should be the enforced Riot meta til next march
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On May 26 2018 22:15 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2018 22:09 Jek wrote:On May 26 2018 21:45 Gahlo wrote:
Yeah, good Soraka's are fucking ass to play against.
The biggest problem I see with how useful Future's Market can be is that you have to already want to be in inspiration in the first place. On supports, that isn't much of a problem, but with junglers I can see that being tricky. Good Sorakas? Bad Sorakas are ass to play against, medium Sorakas are just as rage inducing as Janna and good Sorakas make you want to uninstall the game, your OS and throw your computer out of the window after you've broken your fist as you punch the wall. says the guy with janna as his icon
I've never been ashamed to admit I'm an anti-fun main. I play Janna, Lulu, Soraka, Shen and Ivern is the only jungler I do somewhat acceptable on. Soraka is SSSSS-tier on the anti-fun scale.
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On May 26 2018 17:53 Sponkz wrote:
I'm talking about junglers, who can't always get the gold they want if all camps are down. Or supports who can't farm gold and are reliant on global income to build items. Fuck getting it on carries lol
I don’t run it as a regular choice but when I jungle against someone who could invade and bully me out (like Xin) I sometimes take it as an insurance policy and then if I get forced to back after a few camps I can still get smite upgrade.
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On May 26 2018 17:53 Sponkz wrote:
I'm talking about junglers, who can't always get the gold they want if all camps are down.
*laughs scipaeusly*
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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I dont think Junglers can take futures market unless they taking phase rush. Not taking Celerity and Water walking in this meta is the equivalent of taking oldschool Revive/Clarity.
I also think the maximum debt gold is a touch too low. If it was like double what it is currently I could see it being legit on like Mundo/Shyv using PhaseRush. Magical footwear takes a touch long to com,e online, but if you have phase rush maybe it isn't bad. Plus scales nicely with Celerity.
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I feel weird saying this because when she pops off it's still disgusting, but I think Kaisa early game might be too much of a liability on this patch. I hate playing with her and I don't really mind playing against her anymore.
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On May 29 2018 12:02 Slusher wrote:
I feel weird saying this because when she pops off it's still disgusting, but I think Kaisa early game might be too much of a liability on this patch. I hate playing with her and I don't really mind playing against her anymore.
Maybe my teammates are monkeys but she always seems to be 3/0 at 10 mins in my games.
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kaisa needs a bad early game. her late game is stupid
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When I say too much of a liability I mean I’ve stopped banning her every game. Not that she’s actually bad.
I really don’t like playing with her though I feel like she makes you 4v 5 for 20 min
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So the new ARAM changes look amazing. The bench seems great. Starting at the right xp for level 3 seems good. Increaseing the random pool to help with ARAM accounts seems really good.
The items I am not sure about, but they probably help. It also probably means they tested Pyke and he wasn’t great in a 5v5 early fight without help though.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-frr3umT9L6M/Wv3xlepRGrI/AAAAAAAA_5g/7ZvbE7-qNg0WHAKS8KZNx-QFYwy5ci2hwCLcBGAs/s1600/spearshojin.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VaMOELwEEIk/Wv3yvKd-AqI/AAAAAAAA_5o/wqb-o0m8HSQCrsnt-tkLKHCR6t0ynopugCLcBGAs/s1600/atma.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-96v_GCDiiFQ/Wv3tq7OT9bI/AAAAAAAA_4o/_nWstQu1F_oKsuxhErsSA76i-FHha5RYgCLcBGAs/s1600/sterak.jpg)
