EPTGenerally people respond very poorly to anything not cookie cutter and have a hard time adapting
[Patch 7.23] Zoe General Discussion - Page 6
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
Generally people respond very poorly to anything not cookie cutter and have a hard time adapting | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On November 27 2017 23:36 Uldridge wrote: Why don't supports start unbound spellbook with smite and hardcore invade jungle lvl 1/2/3 while you get a safe adc to farm lane with/let it crash into turret? I tried this as Blitzcrank. I finished 0/9/0 and immediately deleted the rune page after the game. To be fair I was on my second bottle of Rochefort 10 and it was 2AM. But still, 0/9 would not recommend. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
The average ADC player has a pretty legit "I must carry" complex, and the whole ardent censor meta really didn't help at all. Thanks riot. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
It’s not really “I must carry “ as much as I don’t add anything by grouping yet. | ||
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General_Winter
United States719 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4186 Posts
On November 28 2017 04:35 iCanada wrote: Can confirm ADC players tilt the hardest compared to any other position. Aside from maybe riven / yasuo hard mains. The average ADC player has a pretty legit "I must carry" complex, and the whole ardent censor meta really didn't help at all. Thanks riot. This and something that I've brought some time ago is that since the role selection was introduced I have the feeling that bot lane (both support and adc ) is on average around 2-3 divisions (even up to a tier) at lower skill level than the rest. I am not talking about mechanics (although even there they lack imo) but for game knowledge, like their positioning, trading skills, map movement, map awareness, rotations, vision control is significantly lower than the rest of that particular elo | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
On November 28 2017 04:57 General_Winter wrote: Speaking of tilted ADCs have the jungle mains here been playing around bot this pre season? I liked spending a lot of time bot last season, but this pre season I've found myself mostly ganking for mid and top. I feel like with new runes you can get kills really fast in the 2v1. Anyone else noticing this or have I just had a bunch of weird games in a row? well in soloq most junglers have always enjoyed ganking the solo lanes over bot theres less coordination so its easier to coordinate between 3 soloq players than 2 also 2v1 > 3v2 | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
On November 28 2017 05:31 M2 wrote: This and something that I've brought some time ago is that since the role selection was introduced I have the feeling that bot lane (both support and adc ) is on average around 2-3 divisions (even up to a tier) at lower skill level than the rest. I am not talking about mechanics (although even there they lack imo) but for game knowledge, like their positioning, trading skills, map movement, map awareness, rotations, vision control is significantly lower than the rest of that particular elo That's like a summary of me, although I think the list is a bit exaggerated. I do notice that playing top in normals, I don't actually place wards simply because I'm used to having a support ward, and the advantage of being ranged meaning you will always be further back in the lane. Would not say bot sucks at trading, mechanics or positioning in respect to their elo though. And map awareness skills is something I personally find is atrocious in 90% of the player base, even in Diamond ppl don't seem to see the mini map or listen to pings. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Idk, it's a riskier play. Reward is higher I suppose, but it's easier to fuck up, and overly passive lanes not biting means the whole trip is just you feeding and losing your shit to the other jungler. Idk, you go mid and he doesn't bite you traded your hp for mid and still created pressure. You don't lose anything because now your mid had priority, other jungler can't aggress on you because theoretically your mid can collapse and you win the 2v2. Failed ganks bot lose you more, and "unsuccessful" ganks generally get you less advantage as well. 1 of 4 summoners blown is much less appealing than 1 of 2. I feel like if I am making good calls all game I have more success creating 4 or 5 smaller plays and compounding a lead than winning the game from a bigger more risky play. A bad bot play where a few die and you lose a tower straight up loses you the game. Can also straight up win you the game, but you have much less control; worst case 3v3 you have control over 1/6 = 16% of the play. 2v2 worst case you have control over 25%. Best case 3v2 / 2v1 you have 20%/33%. So if you go to a solo lane you have (25/16-1) × 100% = 56% more influence on the play. Without the other jungler it's 65% more influence. Especially if you're the highest Elo jungler, you're much better off going to a solo lane, because you're taking more influence into your own hands than your teammates hands. And logically if you're higher Elo than their jungler, their lane has higher Elo than yours. And bottom that's most of the play influence. Also much more likely bottom has vision than top. You're more likely to lose pressure, or get stuffed by other jungler / them backing off. Obviously, if bottom lane is something stupid volatile like Blitz Lucian vs Draven Leona or some shit then I'll be bottom because one of them going to feed and hopefully its not my team. Or ardent meta.... but otherwise fuck bottom. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On November 28 2017 05:31 M2 wrote: This and something that I've brought some time ago is that since the role selection was introduced I have the feeling that bot lane (both support and adc ) is on average around 2-3 divisions (even up to a tier) at lower skill level than the rest. I am not talking about mechanics (although even there they lack imo) but for game knowledge, like their positioning, trading skills, map movement, map awareness, rotations, vision control is significantly lower than the rest of that particular elo I dont think there's much of a skill difference between any of the roles (except Ardent Censer meta supports). I think it's more due to it being a duo lane so if there's any significant skill differential between the duos it'll be much more appearent. It's also much easier to play safe in a 1v1 lane since it's generally harder to solo dive. The way I see it supports are macro players while ADCs are micro. This is two different playstyles/skillset that unless you're premade can be hard to combine and another aspect of a duo lane is that bad synergy between two players is something that cannot happen in a solo lane. Everyone outside RTS players have horrible map awareness. | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
because all you really need to climb to somewhere in diamond for toplane is to play some split pusher or strong laner and 1 trick it, its not very hard and its viable pretty much all the time. for them, TP is not a spell used for global pressure, its just to come back to lane to feed quicker | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On November 28 2017 09:12 iCanada wrote: Real talk, if I don't have to go bot as a jungler, i generally just don't unless I'm big or it's free as hell. Scary in soloqueue. Idk, it's a riskier play. Reward is higher I suppose, but it's easier to fuck up, and overly passive lanes not biting means the whole trip is just you feeding and losing your shit to the other jungler. Idk, you go mid and he doesn't bite you traded your hp for mid and still created pressure. You don't lose anything because now your mid had priority, other jungler can't aggress on you because theoretically your mid can collapse and you win the 2v2. Failed ganks bot lose you more, and "unsuccessful" ganks generally get you less advantage as well. 1 of 4 summoners blown is much less appealing than 1 of 2. I feel like if I am making good calls all game I have more success creating 4 or 5 smaller plays and compounding a lead than winning the game from a bigger more risky play. A bad bot play where a few die and you lose a tower straight up loses you the game. Can also straight up win you the game, but you have much less control; worst case 3v3 you have control over 1/6 = 16% of the play. 2v2 worst case you have control over 25%. Best case 3v2 / 2v1 you have 20%/33%. So if you go to a solo lane you have (25/16-1) × 100% = 56% more influence on the play. Without the other jungler it's 65% more influence. Especially if you're the highest Elo jungler, you're much better off going to a solo lane, because you're taking more influence into your own hands than your teammates hands. And logically if you're higher Elo than their jungler, their lane has higher Elo than yours. And bottom that's most of the play influence. Also much more likely bottom has vision than top. You're more likely to lose pressure, or get stuffed by other jungler / them backing off. Obviously, if bottom lane is something stupid volatile like Blitz Lucian vs Draven Leona or some shit then I'll be bottom because one of them going to feed and hopefully its not my team. Or ardent meta.... but otherwise fuck bottom. You and I have totally different approaches. I didn't play ranked for most of last season and found myself needing to climb very quickly towards the end. I did that by picking jungle every game and camping the living shit out of bot lane. One gank top, maybe, at level 3, and after that babysitting my bot lane until they won the game. That strat led to a 65% WR on my main junglers and a 100% WR on Nunu. The fact that bot lane ganks are so impactful is exactly why you need to be there. The risk/reward is far greater there than any other lane. And if you are confident in your abilities, then you want to be maximizing your rewards, and the way to do that is by hanging out in the lane where your presence has the greatest impact. Otherwise, you are intentionally lowering your impact on the game relative to the other jungler if he camps bot and you gank top. | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
if youre a nunu trying to gank for a janna/caitlyn lane thats just retarded but if you're 'baby sitting' as in just making sure some important spots are warded so that lane doesnt get 4-5 manned without you knowing and being able to respond to it, thats more than enough in soloq. generally on someone like nunu I tend to just run into the jungle and try to drop wards. I can get control of a certain quadrant and notify my teammates where the enemy jungler is, if I meet the jungler thats fine too since we now have information on where he is. prefer not to heavily gank on someone like him especially botlane since its super hard on anyone with decent escapes or disengage. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Obviously this is horribly biased advice because the end of last season was basically the strongest ADCs have ever been. But it is almost always easier to win with a fed ADC than a fed top. | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
i have more faith in my botlane escaping a gank than my toplaner. but again, its dependent on several things such as champions and what side you're on. if you're on blue side top lane is safer if you're on red side botlane is safer from ganks so that should also be taken into account | ||
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