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[Patch 7.15] Urgot General Discussion - Page 7

Forum Index > LoL General
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Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
August 01 2017 19:41 GMT
#121
Role mains are always the clearest and most reasonable about their position. Just like how ADC mains were completely justified in their constant whining of being underpowered.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
August 01 2017 20:13 GMT
#122
I don't think mid can ever not be op based on location. Case in point the role isn't even considered weak when stuff like lulu karma and zilian are being played.
Carrilord has arrived.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
August 01 2017 20:21 GMT
#123
On August 02 2017 05:13 Slusher wrote:
I don't think mid can ever not be op based on location. Case in point the role isn't even considered weak when stuff like lulu karma and zilian are being played.

Riot's game design is also a lot more favorable to AP champions
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
August 01 2017 20:37 GMT
#124
On August 02 2017 05:21 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2017 05:13 Slusher wrote:
I don't think mid can ever not be op based on location. Case in point the role isn't even considered weak when stuff like lulu karma and zilian are being played.

Riot's game design is also a lot more favorable to AP champions

I think, to the contrary, that its strength is its the only position that can always shift champs to take advantage of the strongest items. ARP is in, so are Zed & Talon. AP Burst? There are assassins. DPS? Cassio. Crit is strong, support your AD with Ori.
Freeeeeeedom
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
August 01 2017 20:47 GMT
#125
Yea the short lane def gives you an advantage in viability again another advantage related to it's location.
Carrilord has arrived.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
August 01 2017 21:31 GMT
#126
Tarzaned is really good, but listening to his stream with all the whining and dripping sarcasm is tiring, honestly not surprised he made that reddit thread. It's interesting that he doesn't play Lee Sin and still made it so far up the ladder, proof that you don't actually need to be a Lee god to dominate soloQ (except now his own champion pool has been nerfed).

I think, to the contrary, that its strength is its the only position that can always shift champs to take advantage of the strongest items. ARP is in, so are Zed & Talon. AP Burst? There are assassins. DPS? Cassio. Crit is strong, support your AD with Ori.


I don't think mid lane is particularly dominated by any one item right now, that's exactly why we see so many different champions there. The last 'meta-defining item' in the mid lane I can think of is Morellos, back when everyone had to get it first item.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
August 01 2017 21:56 GMT
#127
Had LCs not been played on a hotfix you would have seen duskblade mid priority
Carrilord has arrived.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
August 01 2017 22:20 GMT
#128
On August 02 2017 06:31 DarkCore wrote:
Tarzaned is really good, but listening to his stream with all the whining and dripping sarcasm is tiring, honestly not surprised he made that reddit thread. It's interesting that he doesn't play Lee Sin and still made it so far up the ladder, proof that you don't actually need to be a Lee god to dominate soloQ (except now his own champion pool has been nerfed).

Show nested quote +
I think, to the contrary, that its strength is its the only position that can always shift champs to take advantage of the strongest items. ARP is in, so are Zed & Talon. AP Burst? There are assassins. DPS? Cassio. Crit is strong, support your AD with Ori.


I don't think mid lane is particularly dominated by any one item right now, that's exactly why we see so many different champions there
. The last 'meta-defining item' in the mid lane I can think of is Morellos, back when everyone had to get it first item.

Yes for sure. Like what slushey said, the short lane means there isn't a "requirement" for viability like there are for the jungle and top. Although, waveclear is a sort of bar, and its a shame that champs like Ryze and Leblanc have continued to be reworked into reliable waveclearers when that was kind of the charm of them.
Freeeeeeedom
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
August 01 2017 23:23 GMT
#129
On August 02 2017 06:31 DarkCore wrote:
Tarzaned is really good, but listening to his stream with all the whining and dripping sarcasm is tiring, honestly not surprised he made that reddit thread. It's interesting that he doesn't play Lee Sin and still made it so far up the ladder, proof that you don't actually need to be a Lee god to dominate soloQ (except now his own champion pool has been nerfed).

Show nested quote +
I think, to the contrary, that its strength is its the only position that can always shift champs to take advantage of the strongest items. ARP is in, so are Zed & Talon. AP Burst? There are assassins. DPS? Cassio. Crit is strong, support your AD with Ori.


I don't think mid lane is particularly dominated by any one item right now, that's exactly why we see so many different champions there. The last 'meta-defining item' in the mid lane I can think of is Morellos, back when everyone had to get it first item.

i mean the guy is literally a worse version of xj9
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-01 23:55:04
August 01 2017 23:54 GMT
#130
is he? last time i heard about xj9 he was stuck in d2 trolling with fervor vi
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-02 22:44:37
August 02 2017 22:44 GMT
#131
I dont think xj9 was ever the same after the thing with his girlfriend. Im worried he never will
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
St3MoR
Profile Joined November 2002
Spain3256 Posts
August 03 2017 09:09 GMT
#132
lee sin ruined his life
Prophet in TL of the Makoto0124 ways
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-07 05:36:47
August 07 2017 05:33 GMT
#133
The whole catch-up XP meme is very misleading. Without getting into why catch-up XP is super necessary for the game (which VA already got into), there's a bunch of unintelligent people that are conflating catch-up XP with 1) jungle CS, which has never accurately predicted XP gained, and 2) the fact that level differentials naturally shrink over time because of the increased XP required to level up. If you gain a 500 XP advantage over your opponent, that's nearly a 2 level lead at the start of a game, and less than a third of a level lead by the end of the game.

The proof that catch-up XP isn't nearly as strong as they make it out to be is that mid lane XP is usually much closer despite much more dramatic differentials. For example, in LZ v KT game 2, Crumbz was all over the catchup XP and how Score was "only" 2 levels up on Cuzz despite being 1/0/4 to 0/3/1 and 126 to 52 CS. When meanwhile the 3-0-4 Pawn and the 0-1-0 Bdd were the same level for most of the game despite major KDA/CS advantages for Pawn.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-07 07:11:45
August 07 2017 07:05 GMT
#134
Thanks for the free wins in solo Q tonight Piglet xD

+ Show Spoiler +
TL played Vayne in LCS
Carrilord has arrived.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
August 07 2017 18:32 GMT
#135
Well this one is going to be interesting:

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/08/champion-reveal-ornn-fire-below-mountain.html
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-07 18:52:21
August 07 2017 18:51 GMT
#136
On August 07 2017 14:33 GrandInquisitor wrote:
The whole catch-up XP meme is very misleading. Without getting into why catch-up XP is super necessary for the game (which VA already got into), there's a bunch of unintelligent people that are conflating catch-up XP with 1) jungle CS, which has never accurately predicted XP gained, and 2) the fact that level differentials naturally shrink over time because of the increased XP required to level up. If you gain a 500 XP advantage over your opponent, that's nearly a 2 level lead at the start of a game, and less than a third of a level lead by the end of the game.

The proof that catch-up XP isn't nearly as strong as they make it out to be is that mid lane XP is usually much closer despite much more dramatic differentials. For example, in LZ v KT game 2, Crumbz was all over the catchup XP and how Score was "only" 2 levels up on Cuzz despite being 1/0/4 to 0/3/1 and 126 to 52 CS. When meanwhile the 3-0-4 Pawn and the 0-1-0 Bdd were the same level for most of the game despite major KDA/CS advantages for Pawn.

I think it's just the new flavour of the mouth thing to complain about. People latch on to a certain "flaw" and then try rationalize everything in terms of that even if it doesn't make much sense. League is actually very punishing for teams that fall behind. Items don't lose efficiency with gold, stats scale in a non-linear fashion some roles and there are very few ways to fight through a gold disadvantage due to homogeneous power curves. If they removed comeback mechanics it would just mean that the only phase of the game that matters is the very first one.

Dota in contrast is actually fairly forgiving compared to league. Items lose gold efficiency while gaining slot efficiency, power curves aren't homogeneous, initiation is far stronger, vision avoidance is stronger etc.

I disliked the overall trend of removing individual's ability to impact the game over the team element that they trended towards throughout the seasons but I do think they doing a much better job of balancing. Last year(or was it year before) I recall how utterly powerless I felt in the game as it just always tended to 1 big teamfight into lose or defeat and nothing else mattered. This fad will blow over, hell it might have blown over already lol.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
August 07 2017 20:40 GMT
#137
The ones who complain seem to be those who have played the game long enough to remember the days when counter jungling was introduced and was a big thing. The days of S2 Shyv and Lee , who legit lived in the enemy jungle and would destroy games when they got ahead because the enemy jungler became irrelevant. Riot spent a good few years trying to get the jungle sorted out, remember all the items they released to try and constant adjusting of how jungle creeps work? Not to mention adding jungle camps precisely to prevent champions from being zoned from their own jungle (less camps mean it's easier to deny when ahead).

I've never been a jungle main, but imo the nice thing about catch up XP is that it evens out the difference in power between heavy gankers and farming champs. It means that if Lee does nothing but gank, while Yi does nothing but farm, neither is going to find themselves at a major lv advantage, both are viable ways to play the game.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
August 07 2017 20:41 GMT
#138
On August 08 2017 03:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Well this one is going to be interesting:

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/08/champion-reveal-ornn-fire-below-mountain.html

Yah, he looks pretty insane. Interested to see what exactly his abilities are.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
August 07 2017 21:29 GMT
#139
On August 08 2017 05:40 DarkCore wrote:
The ones who complain seem to be those who have played the game long enough to remember the days when counter jungling was introduced and was a big thing. The days of S2 Shyv and Lee , who legit lived in the enemy jungle and would destroy games when they got ahead because the enemy jungler became irrelevant. Riot spent a good few years trying to get the jungle sorted out, remember all the items they released to try and constant adjusting of how jungle creeps work? Not to mention adding jungle camps precisely to prevent champions from being zoned from their own jungle (less camps mean it's easier to deny when ahead).

I've never been a jungle main, but imo the nice thing about catch up XP is that it evens out the difference in power between heavy gankers and farming champs. It means that if Lee does nothing but gank, while Yi does nothing but farm, neither is going to find themselves at a major lv advantage, both are viable ways to play the game.

Its funny that you point out this because in S2, before all the changes, just camping solo lanes with GP5 items was the dominant jungler paradigm at the highest levels for a long time.
Freeeeeeedom
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
August 07 2017 21:34 GMT
#140
Also having boots and oracles then playing like a massive pussy was the go to as well.
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