Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Honestly his kit looks fine for top lane and even for mid lane if you can get the assassin form early. Not sure what will keep him in the jungle, perhaps he cannot constantly trade very well in lane before transformation so he will be inferior laner, I don't know.
Yea I don't get that change at all, brush checks are an important part of the game not to mention it's a big cd to use anivia wall for vision, and yet wall of pain lives on.
Neither being nearly as broken as Amir soldiers killing wards
Wonder how good the Diana buffs are, I have to try her out.
Also, wtf is that Thornmail change, I thought the item was fine as it was.
and just as we were talking about trundle, they reveal a stealth huge nerf to him and anivia/ivern in the patch notes.
Agreed, what a dumb nerf. This was one of those small things that gave the champs a small niche ability (pillar was very useful for Trundle support for example). If they do things like this, then they should implement it with a real rework, Trundle and Anivia don't see much play as it is.
and just as we were talking about trundle, they reveal a stealth huge nerf to him and anivia/ivern in the patch notes.
Agreed, what a dumb nerf. This was one of those small things that gave the champs a small niche ability (pillar was very useful for Trundle support for example). If they do things like this, then they should implement it with a real rework, Trundle and Anivia don't see much play as it is.
I also thought that tornmail is all right, but riot several times implied that they dont like the item as it was and they also implied that they want to add grievous wounds in the tanks arsenal
Wounds on thornmail tilts me tbh, lifesteal is supposed to be the counter. Maybe if it was an active like blademail, but now killing the tank will always do damage to you idk man.
I need to play with these changes in but at a glance thornmail looks like a must buy on tanks, counters the best class for killing tanks.
I like having another source of grevious wounds. It sucks when you're playing somewhere away from the bot lane against something like Swain, and the only champion in your team who doesn't have to fuck their up by buying executioners/morellos is your adc.
Adaptive Helm and this new Thornmail makes it look like Riot wants real tanks back in the meta. Not sure if it's good considering matchups like Nautlus vs Malphite aren't particularly exciting.
On July 12 2017 07:02 VayneAuthority wrote: and just as we were talking about trundle, they reveal a stealth huge nerf to him and anivia/ivern in the patch notes.
This is why I haven't and will continue to never support this company
Huge Anivia nerf is casually hidden away in the bugfixes...
On July 12 2017 07:02 Patch notes wrote: Fixed a bug where several forms of loss-of-control effects (Fear, Flee, Taunt, Knockback, and Charm) weren’t properly cancelling Anivia’s R - Glacial Storm
On July 12 2017 07:02 VayneAuthority wrote: and just as we were talking about trundle, they reveal a stealth huge nerf to him and anivia/ivern in the patch notes.
This is why I haven't and will continue to never support this company
Huge Anivia nerf is casually hidden away in the bugfixes...
On July 12 2017 07:02 Patch notes wrote: Fixed a bug where several forms of loss-of-control effects (Fear, Flee, Taunt, Knockback, and Charm) weren’t properly cancelling Anivia’s R - Glacial Storm
QQ
Yep. It's been like since she was in the game, and now it gets changed?
On July 12 2017 07:33 Slusher wrote: Wounds on thornmail tilts me tbh, lifesteal is supposed to be the counter. Maybe if it was an active like blademail, but now killing the tank will always do damage to you idk man.
I need to play with these changes in but at a glance thornmail looks like a must buy on tanks, counters the best class for killing tanks.
It doesnt reflect based on incoming damage anymore. so getting lifesteal still helps, just half as much. (Oh no wait it's 40% now not 50%. lol its even worse)
So it's better vs stacking lifesteal, worse vs single lifesteal items. if you have 12% lifesteal from botrk, you have 7.2% lifesteal now, instead of -3% from before. If you add a bloodthirster it goes from 32->17 (old thornmail) to 32->19.2 (new thornmail). if you add a scimitar the difference is 42% lifesteal -> 27% lifesteal to 42%->25.2%.
If you just have botrk+scimitar old thorns was 22%->7% new thorns is 22%->13.2%
It's actually worse vs almost every situation that you see from an adc outside of buying bloodthirster, botrk and scimitar. it does 10% armor instead of 25% but adds 20 base. so if you have 135 bonus armor or more you reflect less damage than before. so with it giving 75 armor, its about 60 armor from other sources (so sunfire or dead mans and runes)
It's better vs tanks, mages. Actually worse vs lifesteal in most situations, i guess outside of the warlords auto. its better vs that specific auto attack.
It's better if there is an outside source of healing (though i guess that depends on the amount of outside healing vs the amount of auto attacks used)
it hasn't been based off incoming damage for liek 2 years
after more thought I agree it's not broken vs. adc but I still think it has probable potential to be in the final build of every tank every game, regardless if they are in the tank vs. carry match up this change is intended to ease.
This thornmail change is actually a nerf to the very thing they are trying to buff, except vs lifesteal stacking, 37.5% lifesteal is breakeven for healing prevention (above its better, below its worse) and 133.3 Bonus Armor is breakeven for return damage.
So it returns more damage if its your only armor item, and it prevents healing vs 37.5% lifesteal and above better.
It also helps vs supports who heal the person attacking you.
Apparently, Riot doesnt like doing math on their changes to see if it has the intended effect.
OR
Riot isn't telling the truth about why they are changing thornmail, and they just really wanted to shove grevious wounds somewhere, and thats where it ended up, and someone thought it was too good and pre-nerfed it.
On July 12 2017 11:59 Slusher wrote: it hasn't been based off incoming damage for liek 2 years
after more thought I agree it's not broken vs. adc but I still think it has probable potential to be in the final build of every tank every game, regardless if they are in the tank vs. carry match up this change is intended to ease.
I think we may even see it built much earlier now (maybe second or third item). Like the effective HP thormail currently gives you as an early item right now is really bad; plus it's buildpath is terrible with a 1250 combine cost. So for Top I think you'll be able to go Bramble Vest and Ruby Crystal first buy presuming you don't have wave clear or mana sustain issues. It feels a bit better than Glacial Shroud + Ruby Crystal for a number of champions who don't terribly care about CDR. I'm guessing that Bramble Vest in their thinking is a minor lane counter to AD Kennen or Jayce top who can harrass you out of lane; and that's the thing a bunch of pros seem to be bitching about.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mZfLcsQ.png)
