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On June 19 2017 11:44 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2017 05:55 Slayer91 wrote:On June 19 2017 04:20 GrandInquisitor wrote:On June 18 2017 19:51 Slayer91 wrote:
I wouldn't say orianna has too much utility, I never really felt it having that huge an impact. I feel like removing or nerfing it would be the wrong move, as champions who are versatile are more fun and interesting to play, doing something like nerfing the radius of her R or range of Q or her damage makes more sense. I think this is exactly why she's more likely to have her utility nerfed. Nerfing what a champion is good at makes for boring champions. Nerfing what a champion doesn't need to be good at is better. Like how Fizz should never, ever have his E nerfed. At the end of the day, though, whenever mid lane is balanced is when Orianna comes out. I don't think she's ever been problematically strong - has there ever been a meta where Orianna shoved out all other picks mid lane? No it's the opposite. Having champions whose strengths are too binary is boring, that's why riot is avoiding it like the plague and remaking champions to have more options and more counterplay, and generally are more versatile. e.g getting rid of point and click CC because those champions are always just good for their point and click CC and they can't have anything else too strong. Typically champions need to be versatile to see the light of day in pro play because otherwise your pick can just be countered. I agree. One thing a lot of the assassin reworks did was make them unplayable unless they were totally OP because they lack the kit diversity of a Syndra (who also has the stun, lane control, and blue control) or Leblanc who has waveclear and poke and assassination. Its a lot of "I'm rock, and I'm trusting you not to pick paper". Which, also, IMO is part of this Orianna hate in this thread. A lot of popular picks are skill matchups vs. Ori, but a lot of that "skill" is your jungler's skill, because taking a 1/1/1 Zed/Ahri/Yasuo out of the laning phase against a 1/1/1 Ori is a loss, but Ori can definitely wall those champions 1v1. Its just like why people hate facing Maokai or Malphite or Nasus toplane, because you have to make plays against the Malphite, but you can't (usually) make them on your own, and everyone hates teamwork. agreed nothing is worse when some picks a champ where there goal is to just keep the match up close and be more useful in tea fights. The amount of times I have played Ekko into ori and bullied her and just needed the jungler for the tower dive but they refuse to come cuz solo q
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On June 19 2017 08:50 GolemMadness wrote:
Is it just me, or is flex queue match making just completely random? I've been playing on my smurf, where I recently placed plat 4, and am getting around 28 LP per win. One game I'll be against all silvers, while my team has a couple of diamonds. Then I'll be against a team that has a challenger and D1, but also two silvers. Then I'll be against a whole team of plats. Like, there's zero consistency.
I would assume that this is their soloQ rank and since both ladders are completely separated there are plenty of cases (if not most of the players) with gap or huge gap between soloQ and flexQ rank. For example I am D4 soloQ and S1 flex and I have a friend gold 5 flex and bronze 3 soloQ, however, when the flex matchmaking starts looking for people, it looks only in its own ladder pool, so this system will match me with/against my bronze friend without breaking a sweat, thinking what a good job I did :-)
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Shouldn't Rift be in a way that really only few junglers can take it solo and only when they are fairly fed? I understand that some junglers can solo drakes, but rift is an unique objective that can be taken just once, so it should be a team effort goal imo.
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On June 19 2017 17:00 M2 wrote:
Shouldn't Rift be in a way that really only few junglers can take it solo and only when they are fairly fed? I understand that some junglers can solo drakes, but rift is an unique objective that can be taken just once, so it should be a team effort goal imo.
It can be solod, but it takes a while and hurts by the time you finish it.
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On June 19 2017 05:55 Slayer91 wrote:
No it's the opposite. Having champions whose strengths are too binary is boring, that's why riot is avoiding it like the plague and remaking champions to have more options and more counterplay, and generally are more versatile.
e.g getting rid of point and click CC because those champions are always just good for their point and click CC and they can't have anything else too strong.
Typically champions need to be versatile to see the light of day in pro play because otherwise your pick can just be countered.
This isn't really as big of a thing in other games of the genre.
The issue arises when riot's design goals, and unique kits aren't super aligned. the new professional 5 ban phase will help toward getting the counterable picks out onto the field, But Itemization and some of the ways that league works do crowd out a lot of picks that dont do the things that are valued for that role at the time. They could fix this. but league benefits outside of the pro level quite a bit from familiarity, and from standardization.
This is most apparent in cheap items, there are no pure laning or pure lane forfeiting (like old GP10) items that aren't mandated to grow into bigger things, outside of the dorans stuff, but riot has been clipping those wings for years. 650 gold item that increases your attack range when attacking minions, or the old cho gath mid strat of take every wraith camp on cooldown. or stuff like Dota's Bracers/wraith band/Null talisman or even the Iron Talon. The Adaptive Helm is an item that would see play in mid lane if it was a 750 gold empty purchase that gave 10% CDR, 30 MR, and the unique Passive to reduce incoming repetitive damage.
It's just not in riots design, even if they say it's in their design intent for there to be variety or adaptation or unique niche picks.
Thats fine, but it's not like the way stuff is in league is a constant for the genre, it's just a result of the relative lack of complexity in other areas. As complexity can breed depth, it also can create a barrier to entry that riot doesnt want for their game, as the money making aspect isn't really the competitive scene as much as the casual skin market.
We've had stuff like that in the past though, Chalice midlane, Philo Stone, currently Ninja Tabi bot lane is an example of that, Though with boots its a bit different as you are going to buy them anyway. Though if thats the direction for "Laning one off purchases" that riot wants to go i'm down. Expand boots options and have it be the thing people buy to get through the laning phase. Boots that decrease damage taken from minions by a bunch for freezing lane, or boots that have the adaptive helm effect, or boots that give % missing mana regen, Boots that act like tahm grey HP, but if regen is interrupted the regen goes away entirely. Boots that have an activatable 1.5 second speed boost or something. I'm down for the boots slot being that specialty item buy.
On June 19 2017 18:42 Gahlo wrote:
It can be solod, but it takes a while and hurts by the time you finish it.
Can Shyv still solo rift on spawn with boots + tracker's knife? I know she used to be able to solo dragon at lvl 2 on spawn, but i think they nerfed that.
EDIT:
Also have ya'll noticed there are only 6 items with % Mana regen anymore? and two of them are the upgrades to the tribute item? So they introduced the new AP bonus to Athene's but so many items no longer give % mana regen, and instead they just threw it onto the base regen of the support champs. So it's like an item for a past iteration of the game, but it's new.
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On June 19 2017 14:29 dsyxelic wrote:
dunno what kind of people those are since I love facing maokai malphite nasus
such easy lanes to counterpick / play against
as long as you don't fuck up the team can usually handle them in teamfights
Mfw this is literally my entire champ pool.
I guess I listened to LS for too long.
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Just add zwain and all pool issues are solved.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 19 2017 17:00 M2 wrote:
Shouldn't Rift be in a way that really only few junglers can take it solo and only when they are fairly fed? I understand that some junglers can solo drakes, but rift is an unique objective that can be taken just once, so it should be a team effort goal imo.
Sorry not sorry if this comes across as a bit rude, I've been mostly absent from the patch notes thread, but does anyone here actually care how you think the rift herald should be designed?
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A SHADOW ON THE HORIZONWe have a bunch of new champions in various stages of development. I’m not going to go over all of the champions in production (spoilers), just the one that has been infesting my mind lately — a new carry champion that we think will perform well in the jungle. After Ivern, we wanted to try our hand at a more aggressive, damage-focused champion that should feel at home in the jungle. They will also be our first transformation champion since Gnar, but this take on transformation will be unlike any champion we have ever made. I don’t want to say much more than that for now, but keep an eye out for more info soon.
I have a bad feeling about this.
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more champion reworks for outdated guys are good. but i feel like the meta might stagnate w/o class updates unless they do larger scale itemization reworks and the usual jungle overhaul
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On June 21 2017 13:05 JimmiC wrote:
Why have a bad feeling? Half the time people are complaining about everything becoming to similar. They announce they doing something innovative (will it be who knows at this point) and that also gives you a bad feeling. I have a feeling you are glass half empty kinda guy!
• It's a transformation champion, probably more like Gnar than Elise/Jayce/Nidalee to which I got used to. I don't like Gnar, he's really awkward in solo q and was too strong in competitive.
• It's a carry jungler and Riot isn't good at making those. They always crowd out everything that's not Elise or Lee, and often end nerfed into oblivion like Kindred.
I would be fine with it being just a transformation champ, but a transformation-carry-jungler looks like a glass full of piss. Though it can be lemonade, I shouldn't be so negative from the start.
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On June 19 2017 16:52 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2017 08:50 GolemMadness wrote:
Is it just me, or is flex queue match making just completely random? I've been playing on my smurf, where I recently placed plat 4, and am getting around 28 LP per win. One game I'll be against all silvers, while my team has a couple of diamonds. Then I'll be against a team that has a challenger and D1, but also two silvers. Then I'll be against a whole team of plats. Like, there's zero consistency. I would assume that this is their soloQ rank and since both ladders are completely separated there are plenty of cases (if not most of the players) with gap or huge gap between soloQ and flexQ rank. For example I am D4 soloQ and S1 flex and I have a friend gold 5 flex and bronze 3 soloQ, however, when the flex matchmaking starts looking for people, it looks only in its own ladder pool, so this system will match me with/against my bronze friend without breaking a sweat, thinking what a good job I did :-)
Nope, those are all their flex ranks.
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How can you possibly know that when the person posting the ranks doesn't say where he got that info from.
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On June 21 2017 18:28 Fildun wrote:
How can you possibly know that when the person posting the ranks doesn't say where he got that info from. He is the person posting, right? Or am I missing something here? :')
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LOL
Thought the person I replied to was Scip.
I guess I'm just retarded, unlucky.
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Recognizing people by their icon, lol
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On June 21 2017 13:19 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2017 13:05 JimmiC wrote:
Why have a bad feeling? Half the time people are complaining about everything becoming to similar. They announce they doing something innovative (will it be who knows at this point) and that also gives you a bad feeling. I have a feeling you are glass half empty kinda guy! • It's a transformation champion, probably more like Gnar than Elise/Jayce/Nidalee to which I got used to. I don't like Gnar, he's really awkward in solo q and was too strong in competitive. • It's a carry jungler and Riot isn't good at making those. They always crowd out everything that's not Elise or Lee, and often end nerfed into oblivion like Kindred. I would be fine with it being just a transformation champ, but a transformation-carry-jungler looks like a glass full of piss. Though it can be lemonade, I shouldn't be so negative from the start.
Since it's a carry jungler my guess would be the transformation is somewhat under your control. Really hope it's not a "in this form I'll murder ya'll" kinda transformation, that'd be nearly impossible for competitive vs casual.
Would looooove to see a champion where how you spec skills define how the champion is played. Spend points while in form A will increase something or spend them while in form B will increase something else for instance.
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warwick is a prime example of how a champ rework is good for the game but not necessarily the player base.
He's a better and more interesting champ now that actually draws bans, but I don't know literally any warwick mains that still play the new one, and the champ kept a very similar theme.
It just shows that reworks can keep the champ very close themewise but its not going to keep its playerbase
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On June 21 2017 13:19 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2017 13:05 JimmiC wrote:
Why have a bad feeling? Half the time people are complaining about everything becoming to similar. They announce they doing something innovative (will it be who knows at this point) and that also gives you a bad feeling. I have a feeling you are glass half empty kinda guy! • It's a transformation champion, probably more like Gnar than Elise/Jayce/Nidalee to which I got used to. I don't like Gnar, he's really awkward in solo q and was too strong in competitive. • It's a carry jungler and Riot isn't good at making those. They always crowd out everything that's not Elise or Lee, and often end nerfed into oblivion like Kindred. I would be fine with it being just a transformation champ, but a transformation-carry-jungler looks like a glass full of piss. Though it can be lemonade, I shouldn't be so negative from the start.
My wild guess would be something much more like Ragnaros from HotS than Gnar. Rag is a melee damage dealer with lifesteal built into his kit, and can posess a fort (i guess like a tower in league) and gain range and abunch of big aoe abilities.
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EPT
