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United States37500 Posts
Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Non-League of Legends discussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
There is no new champion this patch.
Patch 6.19: Live on Sept. 21st, 2016
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Passive - Serpentine Grace
AN UNNECESSARY PATCH NOTE: Cassiopeia still can’t wear boots. We thought you’d like to know.
#1 most important part of the patch notes
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Was hoping for 10th reksai nerf 
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Love that Kog Maw change. Probably need to buff his W early back to pre-rework ranges or his pre-6 might be back to being too bad early. Time will tell.
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 Those Fiora splash arts!!!!
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United States15536 Posts
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United States37500 Posts
On September 21 2016 06:11 Sent. wrote:Was hoping for 10th reksai nerf
Ads would be quite sad.
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Wow. They took my suggestion for the jungle, and just made a champion with it. Lulz.
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tbh I think the new triforce is even better on old Kog than when old kog was old Kog
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the tree and rengar bot lane will be too much fun haha try to avoid bush and Q engages with blowing shield xD
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I can already see the toplane Treedudes farming enemy top jungle at level 1....
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this treedude seems like he could pull some nunu-type shenanigans in the enemy jungle
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So support Groot can just get them red buff at the start of the game, and then go lane with their xp advantage and red buff and automatically win lane?
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On September 21 2016 09:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
So support Groot can just get them red buff at the start of the game, and then go lane with their xp advantage and red buff and automatically win lane?
You have to be 5 for the buff transfer I believe.
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For people tired of PvE and having to kite jungle monsters you can now literally stand there and watch the grass grow to defeat jungle mobs.
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On September 21 2016 10:06 lilwisper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 09:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
So support Groot can just get them red buff at the start of the game, and then go lane with their xp advantage and red buff and automatically win lane? You have to be 5 for the buff transfer I believe.
Sorry i meant them as in groot. But being able to have Krugs able to be taken on cooldown in addition to the lane xp should make him a support rework mordekaiser right?
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On September 21 2016 08:00 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 07:05 cLutZ wrote:Wow. They took my suggestion for the jungle, and just made a champion with it. Lulz. Might have been a brain inbade, time to put on the ton foil hat!!! This champ seams like he is going to be op or useless I'll be impressed if they balance him.
Lol. I just mean that not having to fight the jungle mobs is step 1 in fixing the jungle (unless they radically change it).
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Damnit, now I need to buy chromas for a skin I'm not even fond of.
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i really like the ideas they put into irvens kit regardless of how well balanced it ends up being.
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Pretty glad soraka is a lot less oppressive at early levels. It really sucked to play an aggro lane where soraka could just heal through early game allins.
Ivern will be pretty neat. Net clear speed is pretty low given that each camp is 1min+40s for the grove at minimum, but the greedier he gets while jungling, the harder he can get counter jungled. He's pretty much the only jungler who invests health/mana into a camp without quick rewards.
Can't really pick him without banning rengar or last picking him though.
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Ivern looks interesting but he'll probably be like Kled, useless
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On September 21 2016 06:24 cLutZ wrote:
Love that Kog Maw change. Probably need to buff his W early back to pre-rework ranges or his pre-6 might be back to being too bad early. Time will tell.
They reverted his W back to pre rework (range, cd, damage) except for the mana cost. His base AS and AS per level are also back to pre rework.
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On September 21 2016 23:01 Sent. wrote:
Ivern looks interesting but he'll probably be like Kled, useless
He'll be able to level 2 gank with red buff on the first gank if he chooses. So there will be matchups he just ruins for some laners.
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Well Kog'Maw was good before and the AD item changes help him out so I imagine he'll be pretty strong.
This new jungler looks stupid.
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OMG! No Rek'sai buffs. Bless up, can make my path to NA Diamond. Also Diana chromas, YAY! Corki buffs also great. Overall, 9/10 patch. Taking a point off for no Gragas reverts. RIP fat man ;(
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Best change in the patch is nerf to Soraka's early heal CD. :3
On September 21 2016 23:42 NpG)Explosive wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 06:24 cLutZ wrote:
Love that Kog Maw change. Probably need to buff his W early back to pre-rework ranges or his pre-6 might be back to being too bad early. Time will tell. They reverted his W back to pre rework (range, cd, damage) except for the mana cost. His base AS and AS per level are also back to pre rework.
Wasn't the change to how the CD function (on cooldown immediately) a pretty huge buff compared to his old? If he somehow manage max CDR it has like a 2 second downtime now (or 5.5s with just a Triforce).
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On September 22 2016 01:46 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 23:42 NpG)Explosive wrote:On September 21 2016 06:24 cLutZ wrote:
Love that Kog Maw change. Probably need to buff his W early back to pre-rework ranges or his pre-6 might be back to being too bad early. Time will tell. They reverted his W back to pre rework (range, cd, damage) except for the mana cost. His base AS and AS per level are also back to pre rework. Wasn't the change to how the CD function (on cooldown immediately) a pretty huge buff compared to his old? If he somehow manage max CDR it has like a 2 second downtime now (or 5.5s with just a Triforce).
It was already on cooldown immediatly before his rework. It became easier to itemize for CDR, but I'm not sure how great the stats actually is. You really want your target to die during your first W, rather than sacrifice damage and have it back up earlier.
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Oh, it did. Sorta ashamed I couldn't remember, Kog'Maw was the only ADC aside from Twitch I can/could carry on.
Cant really figure out if the loss of crit on triforce for CDR is a win or lose for Kog'Maw considering he's so heavily autoattack focused. Having higher W uptime is super strong, but crits are crits and can randomly just straight up win otherwise lost fights.
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ADC kog was my most played champion in seasons 3, 4 and 5 and I barely touched him this season (didn't enjoy the rework) so you can imagine how thrilled I am.
The new triforce also lost the AP, which wasn't wasted on kogmaw, and some MS.
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On September 22 2016 02:36 Jek wrote:
Oh, it did. Sorta ashamed I couldn't remember, Kog'Maw was the only ADC aside from Twitch I can/could carry on.
Cant really figure out if the loss of crit on triforce for CDR is a win or lose for Kog'Maw considering he's so heavily autoattack focused. Having higher W uptime is super strong, but crits are crits and can randomly just straight up win otherwise lost fights.
Kog's whole kit is predicated on his W uptime, so I'm fairly sure the extra cdr is way more valuable than extra crit. It may not seem that way initially but as people come to remaster kog we will see that be the case imo. Range is way stronger than crit.
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Thank god they reverted Kog back, the new Kog was stupid as all hell and completely ruined the thematic feel of him. Hopefully they revert Vlad at some point too.
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On September 21 2016 11:58 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 08:00 JimmiC wrote:On September 21 2016 07:05 cLutZ wrote:Wow. They took my suggestion for the jungle, and just made a champion with it. Lulz. Might have been a brain inbade, time to put on the ton foil hat!!! This champ seams like he is going to be op or useless I'll be impressed if they balance him. Lol. I just mean that not having to fight the jungle mobs is step 1 in fixing the jungle (unless they radically change it).
Wait... What?
I actually love farming the jungle. Sometimes I make a custom to test a jungle route with certain runes or something, then I just farm the jungle for like 45 minutes and I'm like "Wait... wtf? why am I still here? Why is this fun? o.O"
But honestly, I'd probably play DotA if it wasn't for how much more memorizing farming LoL's Jungle is is.
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On September 22 2016 14:01 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 11:58 cLutZ wrote:On September 21 2016 08:00 JimmiC wrote:On September 21 2016 07:05 cLutZ wrote:Wow. They took my suggestion for the jungle, and just made a champion with it. Lulz. Might have been a brain inbade, time to put on the ton foil hat!!! This champ seams like he is going to be op or useless I'll be impressed if they balance him. Lol. I just mean that not having to fight the jungle mobs is step 1 in fixing the jungle (unless they radically change it). Wait... What? I actually love farming the jungle. Sometimes I make a custom to test a jungle route with certain runes or something, then I just farm the jungle for like 45 minutes and I'm like "Wait... wtf? why am I still here? Why is this fun? o.O" But honestly, I'd probably play DotA if it wasn't for how much more memorizing farming LoL's Jungle is is.
Its just my pet theory, but IMO the reason the jungle is always one of the least diverse roles is the S3 preseason changes that made jungle mobs have high hp and damage. Back in S2 you could jungle anything, and even competitively you could be any of 10 or so champs per patch. Jungle was basically like any other role where you balanced Teamfighting, 1v1, skirmish, etc, but since S3 there is another, PVE aspect that strongly affects the role.
Its basically like if midlane started randomly spawning dragons that attacked in a proximity. It would really push a lot of champs out.
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I can agree with that. Basically bring back purple smite. :D
Although I guess it's usually the first clear that kills a lot of junglers.
I dunno, I think it's a balance thing more than anything this season. If they buffed stuff like Rumble / Kench / Panth / vi / sej / taric/ j4 / Diana / shy / udyr just slightly I could see them being very successful meta jungle picks.
They are all pretty decent as it is, they just need a little oomph. Most of them clear a little too slow or don't have mana sustain till completing jungle items. Others just too weak vs Reksai or Nidalee. Some just need small shifts in pick ban priority of other roles.
We also had things like Rammus, kindred, elise, Lee, rengar, Olaf, skarner, and Graves picked in pro play this split. On top of Nidalee, Gragas, and Reksai. Of all lanes jungle has had the most diversity outside of mid this season. It has been stale recently, but I thinks that's just the way they balanced it this year.
Rumble for example with a better level 3 or 4 gank would be amazing. Literally would just need basically 5% or 10 more on E Slow
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On September 22 2016 15:06 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2016 14:01 iCanada wrote:On September 21 2016 11:58 cLutZ wrote:On September 21 2016 08:00 JimmiC wrote:On September 21 2016 07:05 cLutZ wrote:Wow. They took my suggestion for the jungle, and just made a champion with it. Lulz. Might have been a brain inbade, time to put on the ton foil hat!!! This champ seams like he is going to be op or useless I'll be impressed if they balance him. Lol. I just mean that not having to fight the jungle mobs is step 1 in fixing the jungle (unless they radically change it). Wait... What? I actually love farming the jungle. Sometimes I make a custom to test a jungle route with certain runes or something, then I just farm the jungle for like 45 minutes and I'm like "Wait... wtf? why am I still here? Why is this fun? o.O" But honestly, I'd probably play DotA if it wasn't for how much more memorizing farming LoL's Jungle is is. Its just my pet theory, but IMO the reason the jungle is always one of the least diverse roles is the S3 preseason changes that made jungle mobs have high hp and damage. Back in S2 you could jungle anything, and even competitively you could be any of 10 or so champs per patch. Jungle was basically like any other role where you balanced Teamfighting, 1v1, skirmish, etc, but since S3 there is another, PVE aspect that strongly affects the role. Its basically like if midlane started randomly spawning dragons that attacked in a proximity. It would really push a lot of champs out.
I don't think so. I think League generally just evolved to a point where in competitive anyways, jungle was always going to drop in diversity as lane control knowledge and jungle pathing knowledge improved. In SoloQ, you can still play almost anything to at least diamond 2/3 in jungle. Especially if you're playing something unorthodox, you can play to the lack of the enemy jungler's knowledge to win games. Unless you're playing vs Nid in which case GG FF@20
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The Jungle position sucks competitively because Riot will simultaneously nerf the FotM champions and their jungle item before introducing a bonkers jungle item, effectively changing what is allowed to be strong. Then after that happens, what gets played is shunted down even further by the top lane meta.
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On September 22 2016 20:47 Gahlo wrote:
The Jungle position sucks competitively because Riot will simultaneously nerf the FotM champions and their jungle item before introducing a bonkers jungle item, effectively changing what is allowed to be strong. Then after that happens, what gets played is shunted down even further by the top lane meta.
I agree, but the scariness of being Nidalee/Elise/Kindred invaded during your first 2 clears is diminished if you aren't low hp, oom, and behind a camp.
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League's jungle role is also one of the crappiest from a design perspective. If the role is strong. everyone on the other team isn't having fun, where if it's weak you feel like you are wasting space. There is very little room inbetween and the balance tends to oscillate between the two. Because of the nature of a position where you sit off the map most of the laning phase and show up to create mismatches, if that character is strong it discourages all interaction, and if it's weak it can't enable interaction effectively.
When lane swaps weren't discouraged by mechanics, the jungler was able to effect the game in a slightly different way, which made it a bit easier to have stronger junglers, because part of their responsibility was to cater to the lane swapped player.
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The biggest hurdle for any jungle champion Riot makes and balances is this: "why not just play them in top or mid?"
Almost every current meta jungler (arguably any jungler released since 2013) was first released and designed for top or mid, and only got shunted to jungle after Riot nerfed their numbers but didn't nerf the overall kit until much later on.
Nowadays junglers are used almost solely for two of four roles: secondary ward bot to supplement support vision, ganking during lane phase to strengthen or supplement your laners, a frontline tank to absorb hits, or a person that can isolate someone in a teamfight (usually the ADC or mid laner) and distract them long enough for your damage dealers to do their thing.
Probably the only champions released that stayed in the jungle for their entire length of existing is Vi and Kindred, and the latter saw minor play in top and mid before Riot nerfed their numbers and forced them into the jungle. Vi can't be in top or mid because she can't clear waves fast enough without maxing E first, and if she does that then she can never engage properly until post level 11, when lane phase has already ended.
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Reksai has been in the jungle since her release 
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On September 23 2016 05:06 NpG)Explosive wrote:Reksai has been in the jungle since her release
only been nerfed about 9 times though 
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I remember some Reksai tops and Nocturne mids but Im not sure if they were popular enough
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On September 23 2016 05:06 NpG)Explosive wrote:Reksai has been in the jungle since her release
Rek'Sai was played in top first because she could just go Tiamat into one of the Hydra items and just be a split pusher and still be around for teamfights (ult back to top, TP to the teamfight if she didn't have a tunnel in the area), and the only tank that could go against that was Mundo. She did see play in LCK in top after she was made legal to play, and after 3-5 games they got the new patch which had the first of the Rek'Sai nerfs (which I believe was a nerf to Q's damage and her base AA damage). After that, she went to the jungle and stayed there.
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I'm just saying that, if this next offseason they do a yet another jungle rework, they should essentially convert it into a series of time-elapsed-capture points. Also, smite steals suck.
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On September 23 2016 04:21 Kinie wrote:
The biggest hurdle for any jungle champion Riot makes and balances is this: "why not just play them in top or mid?"
Almost every current meta jungler (arguably any jungler released since 2013) was first released and designed for top or mid, and only got shunted to jungle after Riot nerfed their numbers but didn't nerf the overall kit until much later on.
Nowadays junglers are used almost solely for two of four roles: secondary ward bot to supplement support vision, ganking during lane phase to strengthen or supplement your laners, a frontline tank to absorb hits, or a person that can isolate someone in a teamfight (usually the ADC or mid laner) and distract them long enough for your damage dealers to do their thing.
Probably the only champions released that stayed in the jungle for their entire length of existing is Vi and Kindred, and the latter saw minor play in top and mid before Riot nerfed their numbers and forced them into the jungle. Vi can't be in top or mid because she can't clear waves fast enough without maxing E first, and if she does that then she can never engage properly until post level 11, when lane phase has already ended.
I don't necessarily think this is true.
This season was the season of Carry junglers. Even now Nidalee, the epitome of a carry jungler, is still hella strong. Kindred and Graves, also pretty much the definitions of carry Junglers, were real dominant before they nerfed the shit out of him.
In fact there have been carry junglers every season, riot just nerfs the shit out of them then wonders why no one plays carry junglers any more.
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On September 23 2016 06:00 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 04:21 Kinie wrote:
The biggest hurdle for any jungle champion Riot makes and balances is this: "why not just play them in top or mid?"
Almost every current meta jungler (arguably any jungler released since 2013) was first released and designed for top or mid, and only got shunted to jungle after Riot nerfed their numbers but didn't nerf the overall kit until much later on.
Nowadays junglers are used almost solely for two of four roles: secondary ward bot to supplement support vision, ganking during lane phase to strengthen or supplement your laners, a frontline tank to absorb hits, or a person that can isolate someone in a teamfight (usually the ADC or mid laner) and distract them long enough for your damage dealers to do their thing.
Probably the only champions released that stayed in the jungle for their entire length of existing is Vi and Kindred, and the latter saw minor play in top and mid before Riot nerfed their numbers and forced them into the jungle. Vi can't be in top or mid because she can't clear waves fast enough without maxing E first, and if she does that then she can never engage properly until post level 11, when lane phase has already ended. I don't necessarily think this is true. This season was the season of Carry junglers. Even now Nidalee, the epitome of a carry jungler, is still hella strong. Kindred and Graves, also pretty much the definitions of carry Junglers, were real dominant before they nerfed the shit out of him. In fact there have been carry junglers every season, riot just nerfs the shit out of them then wonders why no one plays carry junglers any more.
season of low eco carry junglers
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They weren't even that low eco. They were actually pretty good powerfarmers. In fact, the one time utility junglers like Reksai, Elise, and Gragas got essentially shoved out of the meta was because they would just fall so far behind in gold compared to Graves/Kindred.
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I just want more things the jungler can do because red/blue buff are boring. And Ganking isn't mechanically encouraged as much as just roam -> taking bot tower is. Rift Herald is neat but it's kind of dull that it needs 2 people to take it effectively. Crabs are pretty much a non objective. Many junglers are "hunt" themed, why not have a "rare" hunt every 5 minutes or some shit. One camp changes on each side to a special camp that gives gold/xp to the team that kills it. it's just mini-game enough riot will eat it up, and it gives the junglers something to do that isn't hoping someone makes a mistake. Bonuses for invading as well and controlling both hunts.
i dunno thats just spitballing, but I do miss seeing junglers with other responsibilities that don't result in a burden on other players like ganking and dragon/rift herald. Lane swaps did that, and the role was more interesting to me as a result.
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My old suggestion was adding more camps that were really far from the lanes when jungling was just about ganking 100% of the time. So you could also incorporate that.
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On September 23 2016 08:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
I just want more things the jungler can do because red/blue buff are boring. And Ganking isn't mechanically encouraged as much as just roam -> taking bot tower is. Rift Herald is neat but it's kind of dull that it needs 2 people to take it effectively. Crabs are pretty much a non objective. Many junglers are "hunt" themed, why not have a "rare" hunt every 5 minutes or some shit. One camp changes on each side to a special camp that gives gold/xp to the team that kills it. it's just mini-game enough riot will eat it up, and it gives the junglers something to do that isn't hoping someone makes a mistake. Bonuses for invading as well and controlling both hunts.
i dunno thats just spitballing, but I do miss seeing junglers with other responsibilities that don't result in a burden on other players like ganking and dragon/rift herald. Lane swaps did that, and the role was more interesting to me as a result.
I'm sorry, when am I supposed to get blue outside of the 1st?
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On September 23 2016 09:31 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 08:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
I just want more things the jungler can do because red/blue buff are boring. And Ganking isn't mechanically encouraged as much as just roam -> taking bot tower is. Rift Herald is neat but it's kind of dull that it needs 2 people to take it effectively. Crabs are pretty much a non objective. Many junglers are "hunt" themed, why not have a "rare" hunt every 5 minutes or some shit. One camp changes on each side to a special camp that gives gold/xp to the team that kills it. it's just mini-game enough riot will eat it up, and it gives the junglers something to do that isn't hoping someone makes a mistake. Bonuses for invading as well and controlling both hunts.
i dunno thats just spitballing, but I do miss seeing junglers with other responsibilities that don't result in a burden on other players like ganking and dragon/rift herald. Lane swaps did that, and the role was more interesting to me as a result. I'm sorry, when am I supposed to get blue outside of the 1st?
Whenever you feel. You have the smite, not them.
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On September 23 2016 11:56 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 09:31 Gahlo wrote:On September 23 2016 08:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
I just want more things the jungler can do because red/blue buff are boring. And Ganking isn't mechanically encouraged as much as just roam -> taking bot tower is. Rift Herald is neat but it's kind of dull that it needs 2 people to take it effectively. Crabs are pretty much a non objective. Many junglers are "hunt" themed, why not have a "rare" hunt every 5 minutes or some shit. One camp changes on each side to a special camp that gives gold/xp to the team that kills it. it's just mini-game enough riot will eat it up, and it gives the junglers something to do that isn't hoping someone makes a mistake. Bonuses for invading as well and controlling both hunts.
i dunno thats just spitballing, but I do miss seeing junglers with other responsibilities that don't result in a burden on other players like ganking and dragon/rift herald. Lane swaps did that, and the role was more interesting to me as a result. I'm sorry, when am I supposed to get blue outside of the 1st? Whenever you feel. You have the smite, not them.
How to tilt your mid into the sun 101
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If he's crying for blues since start you shouldn't move anywhere near him anyway
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On September 23 2016 09:31 Gahlo wrote:
I'm sorry, when am I supposed to get blue outside of the 1st?
Getting mid blue is still part of a junglers responsibilities. it doesn't stop being your job just because you don't take the buff yourself. which is my point.
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On September 24 2016 03:09 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 09:31 Gahlo wrote:
I'm sorry, when am I supposed to get blue outside of the 1st? Getting mid blue is still part of a junglers responsibilities. it doesn't stop being your job just because you don't take the buff yourself. which is my point.
Blue should be removed from the game, imo.
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On September 24 2016 01:32 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 11:56 iCanada wrote:On September 23 2016 09:31 Gahlo wrote:On September 23 2016 08:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
I just want more things the jungler can do because red/blue buff are boring. And Ganking isn't mechanically encouraged as much as just roam -> taking bot tower is. Rift Herald is neat but it's kind of dull that it needs 2 people to take it effectively. Crabs are pretty much a non objective. Many junglers are "hunt" themed, why not have a "rare" hunt every 5 minutes or some shit. One camp changes on each side to a special camp that gives gold/xp to the team that kills it. it's just mini-game enough riot will eat it up, and it gives the junglers something to do that isn't hoping someone makes a mistake. Bonuses for invading as well and controlling both hunts.
i dunno thats just spitballing, but I do miss seeing junglers with other responsibilities that don't result in a burden on other players like ganking and dragon/rift herald. Lane swaps did that, and the role was more interesting to me as a result. I'm sorry, when am I supposed to get blue outside of the 1st? Whenever you feel. You have the smite, not them. How to tilt your mid into the sun 101
/mute shitmidlaner
On September 24 2016 03:09 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 09:31 Gahlo wrote:
I'm sorry, when am I supposed to get blue outside of the 1st? Getting mid blue is still part of a junglers responsibilities. it doesn't stop being your job just because you don't take the buff yourself. which is my point.
Sure. But if you can 1v9 with a tilted midlands it doesn't matter.
If you can't, git gud. Unless you already like a masters tier player. And even then, beast junglers can 1v9. Ask Dardoch.
That's also why I think junglers usually more toxic than other pro positions. You need to be high elo to be pro. You need to 1v9 to get high elo with jungle, but in pro play you are supposed to play a totally different style.
Take mid for example; soloq mid vs pro mid isn't a complete 180 playsryle. Different sure, but not actively a different required mindset.
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Love the stab at Yasuo players too. :D
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On September 24 2016 07:55 Jek wrote:Love the stab at Yasuo players too. :D
Such a great comment:
Yasuo's weakness comes from the fact that he is too strong. His laning phase is so strong that after the laning phase people do not know how to keep calm and throw the game.
Hard to disagree with too :D
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On September 24 2016 06:16 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 03:09 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 23 2016 09:31 Gahlo wrote:
I'm sorry, when am I supposed to get blue outside of the 1st? Getting mid blue is still part of a junglers responsibilities. it doesn't stop being your job just because you don't take the buff yourself. which is my point. Blue should be removed from the game, imo.
i'd rather it do something other than mana regen.
maybe a larger AP buff
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On September 24 2016 10:47 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 06:16 Gahlo wrote:On September 24 2016 03:09 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 23 2016 09:31 Gahlo wrote:
I'm sorry, when am I supposed to get blue outside of the 1st? Getting mid blue is still part of a junglers responsibilities. it doesn't stop being your job just because you don't take the buff yourself. which is my point. Blue should be removed from the game, imo. i'd rather it do something other than mana regen. maybe a larger AP buff
It's 15% already.
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On September 24 2016 06:16 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 03:09 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 23 2016 09:31 Gahlo wrote:
I'm sorry, when am I supposed to get blue outside of the 1st? Getting mid blue is still part of a junglers responsibilities. it doesn't stop being your job just because you don't take the buff yourself. which is my point. Blue should be removed from the game, imo.
Honestly both red and blue buff need complete retoolings. They are meant to be taken by the jungler to help facilitate their jungling ability (blue gives mana regen and bonus CDR, red gives a DoT and a minor slow to help with ganks). But after lane phase ends (or after first take of blue) it's expected to give them to the mid or ADC because it will benefit them more thanks to their scaling damage compared to the junglers, which caps out unless you're an assassin role.
They need to tie the buffs to the jungle item, and give a stacking benefit to the jungler: take blue buff X times, get a scaling boost to mana regen and CDR (capping the CDR bonus at 10%), and once you take it 4-5 times, then you get the AP bonus. For red buff it needs to be HP regen, a slow and the DoT scaling over time, and then once you get it 4-5 times you get a bonus to AD.
Very rarely will red buff's DoT actually help the ADC in a teamfight, they just want it for the slow to kite better. And the blue buff past 30 minutes is such a big thing for the mid to get it's ridiculous.
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Eww. No more jungle items. Just get rid of them entirely. Another factor in the lack of jungle diversity is certianly the S3+ jungle items.
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Jungle items are kind of a design goals thing though.
How to stop laners from taking jungle camps - make it hard
How to let weak junglers(who are also weak laners) farm the jungle without letting laners buy them- jungle items
Gross oversimplification of what got us here, but I think this gist is there.
Unless jungle stops being a role, I think jungle items will be here to stay. I'll be honest, S1 jungle wasn't the best solution either, because if you didn't know what you were doing, you'd get absolutely mauled by the jungle, and only a few champs were really viable.
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my memories of the jungle before jungle items were hog/philo stacking everything
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I miss perma oracles 
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We have this thing called smite which should do everything you allegedly need jungle items for...
If you removed smite and made it an active on all jungle items that could be a path.
Regardless, laners taking jungle camps is an issue of poorly placed jungle camps, in fact, that also causes problems of the farm/gank trade-off not being strong enough.
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On September 26 2016 07:06 cLutZ wrote:
We have this thing called smite which should do everything you allegedly need jungle items for...
If you removed smite and made it an active on all jungle items that could be a path.
Regardless, laners taking jungle camps is an issue of poorly placed jungle camps, in fact, that also causes problems of the farm/gank trade-off not being strong enough.
Jungle items aside. the whole smite on camps for buffs thing was supposed to be there to provide different uses for smite and to enable more people to jungle. just make the buffs stronger for clearing and you don't need the items.
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On September 26 2016 08:10 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 07:06 cLutZ wrote:
We have this thing called smite which should do everything you allegedly need jungle items for...
If you removed smite and made it an active on all jungle items that could be a path.
Regardless, laners taking jungle camps is an issue of poorly placed jungle camps, in fact, that also causes problems of the farm/gank trade-off not being strong enough. Jungle items aside. the whole smite on camps for buffs thing was supposed to be there to provide different uses for smite and to enable more people to jungle. just make the buffs stronger for clearing and you don't need the items.
I believe I remember a time when top laners on blue side were taking smite because Gromp buff made it impossible to lose trade for a bit unless you were blind.
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On September 23 2016 08:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
I just want more things the jungler can do because red/blue buff are boring. And Ganking isn't mechanically encouraged as much as just roam -> taking bot tower is. Rift Herald is neat but it's kind of dull that it needs 2 people to take it effectively. Crabs are pretty much a non objective. Many junglers are "hunt" themed, why not have a "rare" hunt every 5 minutes or some shit. One camp changes on each side to a special camp that gives gold/xp to the team that kills it. it's just mini-game enough riot will eat it up, and it gives the junglers something to do that isn't hoping someone makes a mistake. Bonuses for invading as well and controlling both hunts.
i dunno thats just spitballing, but I do miss seeing junglers with other responsibilities that don't result in a burden on other players like ganking and dragon/rift herald. Lane swaps did that, and the role was more interesting to me as a result.
ive been sick so i only just saw this, but dopa and every challenger korean disagrees.
3:10 fight at bot scuttle apparently makes or breaks the jungle.
dopa himself says its probably the most important thing the midlaner should be focusing on (helping the jungler get it) during the laning stage, and he claims to be a god with viktor but has such a bad winrate (<60%) with him because viktor sucks dick at helping his team out during that time.
he also said he used to think the jungle was a role that cleaned up other lanes' shit and had to go around helping the other lanes, but now he believes its the laners that should be helping the jungler control the scuttle and make easy gank paths/dive chances and throw off the enemy jungler as much as possible (stopping the enemy jungler from taking ghosts etc).
tl;dr jungle has a massive role in korean challenger games and is far from having 'not enough to do'
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Unfortunately that looks like a lot of stuff that only works if people have good game knowledge.
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On September 26 2016 10:17 evilfatsh1t wrote:
ive been sick so i only just saw this, but dopa and every challenger korean disagrees.
3:10 fight at bot scuttle apparently makes or breaks the jungle.
dopa himself says its probably the most important thing the midlaner should be focusing on (helping the jungler get it) during the laning stage, and he claims to be a god with viktor but has such a bad winrate (<60%) with him because viktor sucks dick at helping his team out during that time.
he also said he used to think the jungle was a role that cleaned up other lanes' shit and had to go around helping the other lanes, but now he believes its the laners that should be helping the jungler control the scuttle and make easy gank paths/dive chances and throw off the enemy jungler as much as possible (stopping the enemy jungler from taking ghosts etc).
tl;dr jungle has a massive role in korean challenger games and is far from having 'not enough to do'
Dopa doesn't actually disagree with his Q&A thing. My complaint is that jungler's entire existence is just boring neutral objectives (that are either super minor or require a teammate) or oppressing the laners.
The 2nd bit being very strong and controlling game right now is true. Dopa is just saying that aspect of jungling decides games these days. I just find it boring because it's a playstyle that is about baiting people into mistakes (on the laners end) and if they don't make those mistakes the game go interactionless, and the fight-less things a jungler can do is so much more boring than laners because they rely on cooperation for the big objectives which dopa is agreeing with saying laners should be helping the jungler.
I just want stuff a jungler can do toward winning in those down times where the opposing team is playing conservative or there is no fight to be had. Lane swap era had semi-laning to protect objectives. prior to that there was fast tower pushes in the meta. Before that dragon decided games and could be taken solo by many junglers.
Having only a few things to do has no relevance on how good those things are to do and how much they help secure a W.
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On September 26 2016 10:51 Gahlo wrote:
Unfortunately that looks like a lot of stuff that only works if people have good game knowledge.
thats true, but if you dont have good game knowledge then youre not really in a position to criticise how good or bad a role is tbh
On September 26 2016 11:16 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 10:17 evilfatsh1t wrote:
ive been sick so i only just saw this, but dopa and every challenger korean disagrees.
3:10 fight at bot scuttle apparently makes or breaks the jungle.
dopa himself says its probably the most important thing the midlaner should be focusing on (helping the jungler get it) during the laning stage, and he claims to be a god with viktor but has such a bad winrate (<60%) with him because viktor sucks dick at helping his team out during that time.
he also said he used to think the jungle was a role that cleaned up other lanes' shit and had to go around helping the other lanes, but now he believes its the laners that should be helping the jungler control the scuttle and make easy gank paths/dive chances and throw off the enemy jungler as much as possible (stopping the enemy jungler from taking ghosts etc).
tl;dr jungle has a massive role in korean challenger games and is far from having 'not enough to do' Dopa doesn't actually disagree with his Q&A thing. My complaint is that jungler's entire existence is just boring neutral objectives (that are either super minor or require a teammate) or oppressing the laners. The 2nd bit being very strong and controlling game right now is true. Dopa is just saying that aspect of jungling decides games these days. I just find it boring because it's a playstyle that is about baiting people into mistakes (on the laners end) and if they don't make those mistakes the game go interactionless, and the fight-less things a jungler can do is so much more boring than laners because they rely on cooperation for the big objectives which dopa is agreeing with saying laners should be helping the jungler. I just want stuff a jungler can do toward winning in those down times where the opposing team is playing conservative or there is no fight to be had. Lane swap era had semi-laning to protect objectives. prior to that there was fast tower pushes in the meta. Before that dragon decided games and could be taken solo by many junglers. Having only a few things to do has no relevance on how good those things are to do and how much they help secure a W.
well thats just how the jungle is...all of the roles in lol are very limited to what they actually do, its the importance of the tasks they have to complete that give you the win.
im not gonna list each role and what their 'responsibilities' are specifically, there isnt much depth to any of the roles. if you want a game where there are no set roles and theres a lot more you can do depending on who and where you play, switch to dota.
lol's game design is just shallow compared to dota in that aspect and your complaints about the jungle could be made by any player in any other position too
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Junglers can farm smartly and plan smart routes in those downtimes. In fact that is part of being a good jungler.
That's why reignover used to shit on everyone and now is kinda meh; everyone else caught up.
It's so why regardless of gamestate a guy like Meteos always has quite competitive gold in comparison to other junglers. He is almost always farming more efficiently and thus better putting himself in a spot to win. That is what clearing camps is, fundamentally.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
League quiz:
What are the only twothree AoE execute abilities in the game?
What's the only ability whose damage scales off of bonus health?
What are the two items left in the game that contain "spell vamp" in the item description?
EDIT: corrected a mistake in the first question
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Quiz answers:
+ Show Spoiler +
1) Riven and Jinx ults.
2) Sej W and Vladimir W+E (nevermind that's max health) mmm Volibear W or Sion W?
3) Maw and... ?
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Riven ult is an execute? wow I hate this champion even harder now
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+ Show Spoiler +Volibear's W scales off bonus health.
Is kog ult the third aoe execute?
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
For #1, Kog'Maw ultimate kind of straddles the line of whether it is actually an execute. It does more damage, but it doesn't directly scale off of their missing health %. So it was not what I was thinking of, but it is pretty accurate.
+ Show Spoiler +I was thinking of Jinx R, Riven R, and Morgana W.
For #2, I was thinking the target's bonus health, not the champion's bonus health. But Volibear is correct as to the latter.
+ Show Spoiler +I was thinking of Lee Sin R
For #3, the only item that references spell vamp other than Maw is + Show Spoiler +
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Na, Pantheon's Certain Death is a passive applying to his auto-attacks (auto crit) and Q (deals 50% more damage) to low-health targets, it doesn't interact with the active (Heart-Seeker Strike).
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On September 27 2016 06:14 Alaric wrote:
Na, Pantheon's Certain Death is a passive applying to his auto-attacks (auto crit) and Q (deals 50% more damage) to low-health targets, it doesn't interact with the active (Heart-Seeker Strike).
true thats a bad example, but jhin would certainly count if jinx does.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Interesting, I didn't know that Jhin ult was AoE. Is the execute determined on a per-enemy basis?
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Damn. Just saw support Sion has by far the highest win ratio, according to champion.gg he even have a 51.56% winrate against the "counter". The R>E>Q>W skill order has a 62.33% win rate.
I know what I'm going to spam now.
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didnt they nerf him with the recent Q radius "bug fix" ? i gave up on this champion after i had to play against janna, riven in one team most frustrating thing ever
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On September 30 2016 01:01 kongoline wrote:
didnt they nerf him with the recent Q radius "bug fix" ? i gave up on this champion after i had to play against janna, riven in one team most frustrating thing ever
But doesn't Janna make every team the most frustrating thing ever?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On September 27 2016 01:38 GrandInquisitor wrote:
League quiz:
What are the only twothree AoE execute abilities in the game?
What's the only ability whose damage scales off of bonus health?
What are the two items left in the game that contain "spell vamp" in the item description?
EDIT: corrected a mistake in the first question
+ Show Spoiler +Jinx ult
Riven ult
???
Volibear W
idk, I don't play faggot champions
User was warned for this post (hate speech)
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On September 30 2016 22:06 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 01:38 GrandInquisitor wrote:
League quiz:
What are the only twothree AoE execute abilities in the game?
What's the only ability whose damage scales off of bonus health?
What are the two items left in the game that contain "spell vamp" in the item description?
EDIT: corrected a mistake in the first question + Show Spoiler +Jinx ult
Riven ult
???
Volibear W
idk, I don't play faggot champions
stop violating my safe space
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Today I played vs a Nasus that went Triforce, Rylai's into Portal. I've never been so baffled at a build and terrified of a Nasus before. So much movement speed and slows. Dont know if he was just trolling around or a genius.
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i think thats just more proof that rylai's is super overpowered.
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On October 01 2016 04:46 Jek wrote:
Today I played vs a Nasus that went Triforce, Rylai's into Portal. I've never been so baffled at a build and terrified of a Nasus before. So much movement speed and slows. Dont know if he was just trolling around or a genius.
sounds like a weird version of the nasus build my friend one tricked to like d2 early in the season
he went thunderlords, ap set up
e max
portal -> banner or skip -> rylais
whole thing was being a dick with perma push and having lanes pushed everywhere
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On October 01 2016 04:50 ticklishmusic wrote:
i think thats just more proof that rylai's is super overpowered.
Yeah, it seems a bit too "catch all" if that makes any sense. A ton of AP, health and one of the strongest passives.
Pretty good synergy with his E to keep them in area longer for more damage and armor shred for longer and the "double" synergy with ult (slow+dmg->AD faster). At least his Q doesn't have an AP ratio.
All the speed stacking, stormraiders/rage/point runner/ghost was rediculous. It was like a Singed except he would actually kill instead of anoy everyone. Dont want to think about if he had a Sivir/Karma/Lulu/whatever to make him go full ferrari. Think the whole point of Portal was more for the double resists and point runner than it's active.
Definitely going to try it in a normal sometime, it was pretty savage and unique. Liked he wasn't in the standard "need moar cdr for moar stax" mindset but rather wanted to not be kited for infinity, I guess. Seems alot more teamfight oriented? But I still dont know if he was serious or a high smurf trolling around, regardless it worked.
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I dont know, several days ago I played with MF who carried the game with yomumu 1st, Ryal 2nd item in diamond elo :-))
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Did they change how active you have to be to maintain activity in plat? I thought it just applied to higher ranks, but I played my token game and it acted like nothing happened and docked me 35 lp a few days later. -_- Guessing this is just a glitch, because there aint no way I'm playing a game a day.
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This ranked team restriction team is the worst meme of the century. What kind of cuck decides this garbage is a good idea?
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On October 02 2016 07:09 nafta wrote:
This ranked team restriction team is the worst meme of the century. What kind of cuck decides this garbage is a good idea?
Someone who dont have 4 friends.
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On October 02 2016 17:15 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2016 07:09 nafta wrote:
This ranked team restriction team is the worst meme of the century. What kind of cuck decides this garbage is a good idea? Someone who dont have 4 friends.
But even nafta just said it's not a good idea.
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On October 02 2016 18:02 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2016 17:15 Jek wrote:On October 02 2016 07:09 nafta wrote:
This ranked team restriction team is the worst meme of the century. What kind of cuck decides this garbage is a good idea? Someone who dont have 4 friends. But even nafta just said it's not a good idea.
Touché.
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On October 02 2016 07:09 nafta wrote:
This ranked team restriction team is the worst meme of the century. What kind of cuck decides this garbage is a good idea?
what is the restriction?
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On October 03 2016 07:23 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2016 07:09 nafta wrote:
This ranked team restriction team is the worst meme of the century. What kind of cuck decides this garbage is a good idea? what is the restriction?
You're only allowed to play league with friends between ~6pm and 1am...
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United States37500 Posts
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EPT
