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Canada10567 Posts
On May 15 2016 02:51 MuddyJam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 16:08 Amui wrote:
Just tried protobelt on kayle. Not the best judgment of the strength since I was already godlike, but it provides huge catch potential. Many times people will respect the fact that you can W yourself and run at them but being able to gain that tiny bit of distance is huge. Allows you to just close the distance, and adds even more burst.
I would imagine if I was behind, it'd still be an okay pickup just for the mobility. kayle as a speed boost and a slow! how are u not already sticking to people? Als you want your on hit AS items so you can shit out damage. Why would you delay that to get something you already have in your kit?
It's not for sticking to people. It's for the utility of being able to catch people out and repositioning. Moving fast is not the same as a short dash.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Boots, Nashor's, Rageblade, and Hurricane are core on Kayle. That means that you get to pick at most two out of these seven items:
Wit's End
Lich Bane
Rabadon's Deathcap
Rylai's Crystal Scepter
Void Staff
Zhonya's Hourglass
Protobelt
I'm not convinced that Protobelt is ever going to be the best or second best item in that list.
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Canada10567 Posts
On May 15 2016 07:55 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Boots, Nashor's, Rageblade, and Hurricane are core on Kayle. That means that you get to pick at most two out of these seven items:
Wit's End
Lich Bane
Rabadon's Deathcap
Rylai's Crystal Scepter
Void Staff
Zhonya's Hourglass
Protobelt
I'm not convinced that Protobelt is ever going to be the best or second best item in that list.
Almost certainly isn't, but if you're 7/0/2, what harm is there in trying out new items.
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I think they should make dragons change every couple of minutes or something like that, regardless if they are killed or not, so teams can actually try to pick/stack the drakes they want. Because now we just pick whatever is available and the strategic planning & thinking is not any different than what we had before. I mean the buffs are random and different but we can't really do more or less to what we were doing before - waiting for the right moment to pick it. However, if drakes change every few minutes, then teams will try to force the ones they want, which will bring some planning and strategy that is different from before I suppose
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On May 14 2016 14:11 Slusher wrote:
I kinda like the elemental Drakes now that I've played with them a bunch, I guess if air didn't exist or had some sort of combat boost, I'd like them a lot.
basically I can get over them being random but I want to care about all 4, and currently I care about 3/4. Also I think water is really overrated, I think it is BY FAR the best Dragon if it's a first Drake and you get it before 10 min, but I think mountain and Fire are both better late game or to have 2+ stacks of, obviously it's team comp situational (like the soraka situation you mentioned makes sense) but I hope when water gets nerfed (it's nerfed on the PBE I believe) that they don't nerf stack 2/3 that much, or it will be air dragon level of priority.
on the flip side I expected Rift Herald to be super strong but if it's having an impact in my games, I haven't noticed although I've played top like once in the last 2 weeks, I normally don't agree with Scarra when it comes to balance, but his hot potato idea I really like, make this buff really good (if it isn't already and I haven't noticed) and have it drop on death, I think that would be worth a try, although it's probably too late to do something that crazy.
First person I've seen say ocean is overrated. I think it is by far the best one period. Cloud and Earth are whatever, they wont screw you. One fire is meh, 2 is good and 3 is really good. But just 1 Ocean can change a game. Its way too much sustain and if you get 2 or 3 and win a fight, you don't even need to back.
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On May 15 2016 18:26 Bladeorade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 14:11 Slusher wrote:
I kinda like the elemental Drakes now that I've played with them a bunch, I guess if air didn't exist or had some sort of combat boost, I'd like them a lot.
basically I can get over them being random but I want to care about all 4, and currently I care about 3/4. Also I think water is really overrated, I think it is BY FAR the best Dragon if it's a first Drake and you get it before 10 min, but I think mountain and Fire are both better late game or to have 2+ stacks of, obviously it's team comp situational (like the soraka situation you mentioned makes sense) but I hope when water gets nerfed (it's nerfed on the PBE I believe) that they don't nerf stack 2/3 that much, or it will be air dragon level of priority.
on the flip side I expected Rift Herald to be super strong but if it's having an impact in my games, I haven't noticed although I've played top like once in the last 2 weeks, I normally don't agree with Scarra when it comes to balance, but his hot potato idea I really like, make this buff really good (if it isn't already and I haven't noticed) and have it drop on death, I think that would be worth a try, although it's probably too late to do something that crazy. First person I've seen say ocean is overrated. I think it is by far the best one period. Cloud and Earth are whatever, they wont screw you. One fire is meh, 2 is good and 3 is really good. But just 1 Ocean can change a game. Its way too much sustain and if you get 2 or 3 and win a fight, you don't even need to back.
Getting first ocean at like lvl 5-6 literally wins your lanes for you. It makes it so that in anything less then a complete all in, you will regen up much faster then your opponent.
In addition, it means that any mana hungry mid laners no longer have to buy their mana items and just buy damage.
That dragon is absurdly powerful, I think I saw quoted a 95%~ winrate for teams that got it that early.
Even later in the game it is really powerful, especially on champions that don't have healing built into their kit. So often I'm at 60-70% as a midlaner, and wanting to base to top off my health so that if a fight happens I'm not screwed, but with the drake, I know I can just sit out there for a minute and get most of it back.
Having both mana/health regen on one buff seems like it will be really hard to balance well, especially as it works off of missing.
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I think ocean is overrated but then it's hard to tell because it matters less if you don't get it early and it's hard to exactly tell how much it does
mountain is probably underrated if you get a couple of those you can insta melt baron and towers
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Ocean is quite noticeable.
You can win a fight, be at 10% HP take a tower, then back off to take a buff camp behind a row of your wards, and like you'll be full HP by the time the buff dies.
Maybe its just because I main the jungle, but like to me the amount of uptime it gives you on doing shit is incredible, almost the the point where you never feel like you have to buy then you realize you sitting on like 3k gold or something silly like that.
Or you dive top, greed out krugs on your side with no HP, and by the time krugs done you 60% HP.
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dunno I don't have THAT much experience with ocean
for some reason 90% of my games its CLOUD DRAKE x2 and then fire of mountain and nobody takes 1st dragon until like 50 minutes LOL
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Late game if you get a lot ocean drakes, tanks become silly. And that is coming from a tank player. I watched a 6 item Tristana shoot the 6 item Renekton I had locked down on Sejuani with 3x Ocean Drake & Grand Drake for his teams entire death timers. He got away and we surrendered.
LOL.
I think if we had any other drake spawn (except maybe mountain) we probably won. We had a crazy scaling advantage, just their midgame was ridiculous. Nid (vs Sej) + Panth Mid (vs Fizz) + Renekton (vs Poppy) + Janna/MF (vs Braum/Trist).
I think it needs a nerf, and it shouldn't be a percent thing, rather a flat thing.
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On May 15 2016 19:01 Slayer91 wrote:
dunno I don't have THAT much experience with ocean
for some reason 90% of my games its CLOUD DRAKE x2 and then fire of mountain and nobody takes 1st dragon until like 50 minutes LOL
As a lone goldie I honestly don't know anything about the new Drakes. People only take them when they winning and it seems to have zero effect on anything. Hell I don't even know how to tell which Drake it is before I get the buff. I still miss the old drakes. At least everyone knew wtf was going on when you went to kill them. That juicy juicy gold.
I just really dislike how "hidden" the power of these drakes compared to what it was originally.
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look at dragon pit it shows the symbol
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I don't know what the symbols mean either! Guess I should just learn them. The only time I remember teammates actively caring about Dragon was in this 50 minute game some dudes were like "it's the good drake now we got to get it!".
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On May 15 2016 20:16 Numy wrote:
I don't know what the symbols mean either! Guess I should just learn them. The only time I remember teammates actively caring about Dragon was in this 50 minute game some dudes were like "it's the good drake now we got to get it!".
Its onyl good if you have other drakes, else it is just a 45 damage on-hit effect. It also doubles all other drake effects, and the burn is 45*(1+n) where n = # of prior drakes. If you had 4 prior drakes it is exponentially better than if you didn't. At 4 drakes your support player gets autos that do like 350 damage. LOL.
Which isn't complete trash, but for Baron-level risk, it is pretty trash.
In general, I think this new drake is even more snowbally than old drake that they hated (both of them). Like, elder drake is pretty worthless if you were behind early. It basically favours the early game team much higher.
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its not exponentially better it's linearly better
what the fuck bro
i know people abuse the term but when you write out an equationthe line before it gives me aids
45 damage on hit is pretty good tho
like its a free BF sword for whole team
7k gold confirmed
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I understand the concept behind the new drakes in that they want people to have incentives to fight but I feel it's going about it the wrong way. I've been watching Epicenter this weekend which is first time in awhile I've watched Dota. One thing I've noticed is how less snowbally the game is to league. Teams constantly fighting to try get small advantages where losing a fight doesn't necessarily put you out of the game. Think that's the key to how to interaction more in league, make it so you aren't punished as hard as you are currently for losing that fight/interaction. Forcing teams to fight or lose the game isn't really going to be healthy.
The games remind me a lot of M5 and SSW playstyles. Some way to force through vision may do wonders.
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On May 15 2016 19:24 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2016 19:01 Slayer91 wrote:
dunno I don't have THAT much experience with ocean
for some reason 90% of my games its CLOUD DRAKE x2 and then fire of mountain and nobody takes 1st dragon until like 50 minutes LOL As a lone goldie I honestly don't know anything about the new Drakes. People only take them when they winning and it seems to have zero effect on anything. Hell I don't even know how to tell which Drake it is before I get the buff. I still miss the old drakes. At least everyone knew wtf was going on when you went to kill them. That juicy juicy gold. I just really dislike how "hidden" the power of these drakes compared to what it was originally.
Na, giving gold was a lot of hidden power that people didn't realise until you had a full item more, said Riot.
Gold isn't a measurable enough metric, go figure.
Also Numy dota players are apparently whining that the rubberband gold from kills makes the game way too much like league and too much "handed off" comebacks. :D I agree that the swings are silly tho.
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That reminds me of some article on LiquidDota that yanger and I read together which was bitching about that. The whole thing was either completely wrong about League or using insanely outdated information. The number of people that know enough about both games to really dive into analysis are extremely small.
The swings are a bit silly but I mean league swings are even worse atm with death timers. All I'm really trying to say is that there are better ways to try promote teams to interact. It's kind of like card games where if there's tons of interaction it means there are plenty of decision points for players to go through to determine the victor.
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On May 15 2016 20:41 Slayer91 wrote:
its not exponentially better it's linearly better
what the fuck bro
i know people abuse the term but when you write out an equationthe line before it gives me aids
45 damage on hit is pretty good tho
like its a free BF sword for whole team
7k gold confirmed
Compared to 225 damage on hit though it's nothing. Add in now the other team just got 2 additional ocean drakes, an additional fire drake, and an additional mountain drake.... yeah suddenly it is quite literally exponentially better for them than for you.
The on hit buff is just a small component of it. You get 45 damage on hit, they get 225 damage on hit +20% regeneration per 10 seconds plus an additional 20% damage to structures, plus a total of 8% more damage?
How much gold is that worth? Hint, is a lot more than 4 x 7 = 28k.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
You're triggering polynomially more people with each misuse of exponential iCanada
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EPT
