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TSM has officially announced the departure of their head coach, citing dissatisfaction with his progress on improving the out-of-game cohesion and performance of the team.
KC was released yesterday on February 15th in the evening. Initially, we brought him on with the expectation that he would be the “Life Coach” or “Out of Game Coach”. His duties as a life coach was to help players maintain healthy relationships amongst each other, with their own lives, and to help them maintain a competitive mindset throughout the season. At the beginning, we felt that he had a lot of great ideas regarding how to achieve this, and his background in traditional sports seemed to be a solid fit.
We wanted to keep KC on and try to work with him through the situations that arose, but he was unable to progress at a rate where he could become the coach we needed given our limited time. He was unable to transition his background into the esports scene, causing a lack of understanding between him and the players. While his methods may have been effective in a traditional sports setting, it was ineffective for our team.
With this being said, we would like to thank KC for his efforts and time with us. We wish him good luck on his future endeavors. Currently, we have several candidates in mind as a suitable replacement in his position, and we will give an update as soon as it is available.
http://www.tsm.gg/index.php/news/tsm-coach-changes/
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Yea I'm not sure what TSM can do to fix their problems but just based on my experience working with teams changing leadership frequently doesn't really help
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On February 17 2016 11:20 Zess wrote:
Yea I'm not sure what TSM can do to fix their problems but just based on my experience working with teams changing leadership frequently doesn't really help
He just shouldn't have been hired in the first place. I actually pointed it out months ago: LOL knowledge is not irrelevant in coaching position - even if your not the strategic coach. But I think Reginald fell for him spamming buzzwords during the interview. Thorin had a very good video on the subject showcasing some of the issues with him.
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I love the sustainability of this job market
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I'm surprised they never picked up the CLG coach from s5, he looked like he did a really good job. (imo he must of really fucked up in CLG),
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On February 17 2016 12:48 wei2coolman wrote:
I'm surprised they never picked up the CLG coach from s5, he looked like he did a really good job. (imo he must of really fucked up in CLG),
AFAIK it was because when it came to re-signing the players he suggested that they look out for their interests and not only CLG's.
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On February 17 2016 12:55 Ethelis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 12:48 wei2coolman wrote:
I'm surprised they never picked up the CLG coach from s5, he looked like he did a really good job. (imo he must of really fucked up in CLG), AFAIK it was because when it came to re-signing the players he suggested that they look out for their interests and not only CLG's.
Sounds like wise advice tbh. lol.
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On February 17 2016 11:33 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 11:20 Zess wrote:
Yea I'm not sure what TSM can do to fix their problems but just based on my experience working with teams changing leadership frequently doesn't really help He just shouldn't have been hired in the first place. I actually pointed it out months ago: LOL knowledge is not irrelevant in coaching position - even if your not the strategic coach. But I think Reginald fell for him spamming buzzwords during the interview. Thorin had a very good video on the subject showcasing some of the issues with him.
Thorin had a shit video where he made a bunch of assumptions and phrased them as facts because it sounds good and since it's about TSM people will eat it up. The problem with Woodbuck is that he couldn't relate to esports competitors.
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That statement reminded me of Elementz (the player), who tried to introduce that group hug and shout before every game with Coast. I doubt it had nearly the effect compared to when you do it before a traditional team sport.
And if KC was a life-coach only, why the hell was he even there after\before games? That is just stupid. It should be the analyst or whoevers job to discuss the games and moving forward strategically, not the life coach's. Sure, if someone gets a nervous-breakdown or something, then go ahead, cheer him up, but that's about it.
I really wish the scene wouldn't bastardize the word "coach" anymore.
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On February 17 2016 14:35 Volband wrote:
That statement reminded me of Elementz (the player), who tried to introduce that group hug and shout before every game with Coast. I doubt it had nearly the effect compared to when you do it before a traditional team sport.
And if KC was a life-coach only, why the hell was he even there after\before games? That is just stupid. It should be the analyst or whoevers job to discuss the games and moving forward strategically, not the life coach's. Sure, if someone gets a nervous-breakdown or something, then go ahead, cheer him up, but that's about it.
I really wish the scene wouldn't bastardize the word "coach" anymore.
Jarge was there for pregame, postgame, and PB.
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Well, from player comments (or lack thereof) I gathered that he wasn't a great help. Players usually give credit to their support staff during interviews and such and I don't recall a single instance of TSM players acknowledging how helpful their head coach was... and it wasn't for a lack of interviews. He didn't look great either in the (very limited) camera time he's had in TSM legends and such.
Working with this very limited info, it SEEMS that he wasn't doing a good job, and if that's the case, then it's good that they parted with him sooner rather than later.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On February 17 2016 12:48 wei2coolman wrote:
I'm surprised they never picked up the CLG coach from s5, he looked like he did a really good job. (imo he must of really fucked up in CLG),
Chris seems to be working with Echo Fox though.
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Almost like sports coaching is completely unrelated to league of legends or something. /shrug
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Releasing a coach midseason is never a good look for a team, even a coach who is doing as little as KC apparently was.
Also, 7-3 start to the split and sole possession of 2nd place despite all these issues is actually pretty impressive. Although it might be saying more about the state of non-IMT NA competition...
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i think the idea of having a team coach with a traditional sports background was a decent one, kc just wasnt the guy
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On February 17 2016 13:44 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 11:33 Hider wrote:On February 17 2016 11:20 Zess wrote:
Yea I'm not sure what TSM can do to fix their problems but just based on my experience working with teams changing leadership frequently doesn't really help He just shouldn't have been hired in the first place. I actually pointed it out months ago: LOL knowledge is not irrelevant in coaching position - even if your not the strategic coach. But I think Reginald fell for him spamming buzzwords during the interview. Thorin had a very good video on the subject showcasing some of the issues with him. Thorin had a shit video where he made a bunch of assumptions and phrased them as facts because it sounds good and since it's about TSM people will eat it up. The problem with Woodbuck is that he couldn't relate to esports competitors.
Well Thorin has a habit of doing that, but I think his "analysis" of Woodbucks Reddit comments in the AMA thread was spot on. (spamming buzzwords, plus seemed to lack an actual understanding of what the actual issues could be). On the other hand, I thought the AMA from the Immortals sports-coach guy was more reasonable (read: less buzzwords, more practical approach).
A guy like Woodbuck should probably be hired as the PR manager for a team. Yeh that may sound like a joke, but I am half-serious; think about it: He is great at making Reddit comments that makes people like him/make him appear sympathic. Not everyone can do that.
Working with this very limited info, it SEEMS that he wasn't doing a good job, and if that's the case, then it's good that they parted with him sooner rather than later.
Yeh, and I believe I said this around a month or ago, but I only saw one of two possibilities:
(1) Either he could be a fly on the wall that basically does nothing or
(2) He could be the guy that tries to keep him self somewhat relevant, but in this proces he is likely to just be annoying.
I think the latter probably was the case, and alot of the players probably find his "talks" annoying and ackward, and they saw little upside with having on the team the split out.
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On February 17 2016 23:48 ticklishmusic wrote:
i think the idea of having a team coach with a traditional sports background was a decent one, kc just wasnt the guy
My whole issue... isnt they arent mutually exclusive.
There are literally millions of people who have played real sports their whole life, even had coaching and analytical roles, and still understand League of Legends.
Hiring a guy, simply because he was a coaching assistant at USC... seems like a joke, if he cant handle interacting with these people whose lifestyle he cant even begin to understand, because it just isn't his thing.
The whole point of his role was supposed to be unity, cohesion, and focusing on the relationships among the players...but when you have a guy who cant relate to your players, how is he going to help their relationships with eachother?
"Hey guys... we should do a team cheer after every game... because, like, you do that a lot in team sports growing up and stuff."
Ive participated in sports my whole life, had a coaching role in both traditional and non traditional sports my whole, and have followed competitive gaming since 2007, and have followed League since its inception...
like I am not that rare of a person in this day and age. There are literally millions of people who understand traditional sports AND esports.Like there is no point in selecting someone for the position who was either/or.
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On February 17 2016 22:50 BrownBear wrote:
Releasing a coach midseason is never a good look for a team, even a coach who is doing as little as KC apparently was.
I disagree. If something is clearly not working, hell, might even gets the opposite result of what was expected then get rid of it ASAP. Having no coach, or should I say, ""coach"", for a few weeks is still better, than having an incompetent one.
Well, it's obviously not true in traditional sports, where the coach is the person who does the strategic part of the game as well.
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On February 18 2016 23:42 JimmiC wrote:
Though the old adage "hire slow and fire fast" is wise. At some point you need to look at the decision making of the person doing the hiring and firing when there is this much turnover. Which is never a recipe for success.
I agree with firing fast. There is no point in dragging something out that you clearly dont like/agree with.
I dont understand why so many people question Regi's ability as GM of TSM tho, he has turned his brand into one of the biggest and most successful in esports, yet everyone is always so quick to jump on "Omg Regi doesnt know wtf he is doing again?!" but then everyone gets quiet about his decisions once TSM makes it to worlds again, or still gets the biggest cheers at every single event they attend.
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I wonder if he would be brave enough to fire/bench YS if he keeps up with his mediocre performance. Regi got a lot of praise for axing Gleeb as soon as he did, and it was indeed good leadership, because he basically admitted his own failure, instead of letting his pride possibly ruin the team's performance even more, but let's face it, Gleeb was a nobody, and he did not have nearly the hype around him when he got into the squad as "The True Shotcaller, The European Superstar, The Veteran Mastermind, YelllowStaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar".
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On February 19 2016 02:10 JimmiC wrote:
It's like Jerry Jones in NFL. Regi great at building brand and excitement not great at building winner after the glory years. Depends what you are after I guess. If he wants to keep the drama and keep on being "americas" team than that's fine but he could probably have a even more winning team if he kept doing what he is good at and had someone else fill in his weaker areas.
I don't know about that. Regi has an overwhelmingly positive record with roster swaps.
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On February 19 2016 03:26 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2016 02:10 JimmiC wrote:
It's like Jerry Jones in NFL. Regi great at building brand and excitement not great at building winner after the glory years. Depends what you are after I guess. If he wants to keep the drama and keep on being "americas" team than that's fine but he could probably have a even more winning team if he kept doing what he is good at and had someone else fill in his weaker areas. I don't know about that. Regi has an overwhelmingly positive record with roster swaps.
Seriously...they have been a dominant force since season 1...
Have they had a season yet where they didnt at least make it to worlds?
And before "ya but they never win!" no team outside of Asia has...but noone calls every single decision all of those organizations make a bad one, which is what happens every time Regi makes a decision, there are a handful of people who feel the need to point out how terrible he is as a manager... despite having one of the most consistently top teams in the world for the entire existence of his team.
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On February 19 2016 04:10 JimmiC wrote:
You're arguing with the guy who agree's with you
No they aren't, they're adding on.
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On February 19 2016 02:41 Volband wrote:
I wonder if he would be brave enough to fire/bench YS if he keeps up with his mediocre performance. Regi got a lot of praise for axing Gleeb as soon as he did, and it was indeed good leadership, because he basically admitted his own failure, instead of letting his pride possibly ruin the team's performance even more, but let's face it, Gleeb was a nobody, and he did not have nearly the hype around him when he got into the squad as "The True Shotcaller, The European Superstar, The Veteran Mastermind, YelllowStaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar".
I haven't been all that happy with Hauntzer and Svenskeren either though. Watched both of them dive in to initiate teamfights with their team nowhere nearby too many times for my liking.
Watching them get blown up like they're WildTurtle game after game hasn't given me a lot of confidence that either of them were the right pick-ups.
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On February 23 2016 08:24 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2016 02:41 Volband wrote:
I wonder if he would be brave enough to fire/bench YS if he keeps up with his mediocre performance. Regi got a lot of praise for axing Gleeb as soon as he did, and it was indeed good leadership, because he basically admitted his own failure, instead of letting his pride possibly ruin the team's performance even more, but let's face it, Gleeb was a nobody, and he did not have nearly the hype around him when he got into the squad as "The True Shotcaller, The European Superstar, The Veteran Mastermind, YelllowStaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar". I haven't been all that happy with Hauntzer and Svenskeren either though. Watched both of them dive in to initiate teamfights with their team nowhere nearby too many times for my liking. Watching them get blown up like they're WildTurtle game after game hasn't given me a lot of confidence that either of them were the right pick-ups.
Hauntzer has been pretty much hard carrying all of their wins, and was a dominant force in their losses (bar this week's) too. He's basically been by far their best player this season.
Agree on Sven though.
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On February 23 2016 08:43 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 08:24 Nemireck wrote:On February 19 2016 02:41 Volband wrote:
I wonder if he would be brave enough to fire/bench YS if he keeps up with his mediocre performance. Regi got a lot of praise for axing Gleeb as soon as he did, and it was indeed good leadership, because he basically admitted his own failure, instead of letting his pride possibly ruin the team's performance even more, but let's face it, Gleeb was a nobody, and he did not have nearly the hype around him when he got into the squad as "The True Shotcaller, The European Superstar, The Veteran Mastermind, YelllowStaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar". I haven't been all that happy with Hauntzer and Svenskeren either though. Watched both of them dive in to initiate teamfights with their team nowhere nearby too many times for my liking. Watching them get blown up like they're WildTurtle game after game hasn't given me a lot of confidence that either of them were the right pick-ups. Hauntzer has been pretty much hard carrying all of their wins, and was a dominant force in their losses (bar this week's) too. He's basically been by far their best player this season. Agree on Sven though.
Well I'll grant that Hauntzer has been hit or miss, but it's feast or famine on those hits and misses.
Sven has just been completely frustrating. I catch myself thinking "I'd rather have Amazing back" too many times to count.
I also feel like Bjerg and DLift are playing weirdly passive behind Sven, leading to a lot of his pointless deaths. Not sure if that's a trust issue or what, but it's been something I've noticed.
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EPT
