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because that was covered by the person arguing in Blitz's favor, follow the conversation
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On March 03 2015 05:34 Slusher wrote:
because that was covered by the person arguing in Blitz's favor, follow the conversation
yeah, it's a moot argument is my whole point.
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On March 03 2015 05:21 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 04:59 101toss wrote:On March 03 2015 04:43 Zdrastochye wrote:
Only if you can hold onto your R. I'd think (just an opinion of a bronze) that silencing a Kat mid-ult is better than the lightning bolt, but then again I also thought warding was good so I'm sure I'm not on the right path. I was referring more to level 6 all-in fights where it's not mandatory to get off the silence but rather using the ult for the killing burst. Sure, in teamfights you might not get the luxury of holding onto r, but in lane fights the passive damage can mean the difference between going 2-0 and 0-2. Blitz is also naturally tanker than thresh by a large margin (base stats and passive), which gives him even more buffer in fights. Also even though I don't buy wards, that's a bit different than placing 0 wards. My play style revolves around using map awareness and all-inning bot lane with a gold advantage (wards vs no wards) when you know the jungler isn't bot (doable with the trinket and general map awareness). Yeah I'm not referring to a no ward style, moreso I did the opposite of what you did and pre 3 max wards I would mostly never get anything more than a gp10 and upgraded boots, all the rest of my items were invested in wards and oracles and I would just blanket whatever side of the map we wanted to take. I noticed it being extremely effective for setting up fights, moreso than any singular item that I could buy for my team to have near 100% vision of their team whenever we're opening ourselves up to a potential fight, as it makes collapsing on them considerably easier if we know how far away they are from each other. If you were anti-ward I'd call myself pro-ward. I think there exists room to have both playstyles without one being a way to get challenger and the other way being bronze level. You can play with minimal warding up to challenger and you can ward frequently and be challenger. I doubt they're mutually exclusive.
I would agree except for how those poke/disengage/squishy champions have kind of fallen out of favor (ie Caitlyn, Vayne, Sona, Janna) compared to all-in champions with tankiness, damage and dive potential (Leona, Blitz, some op bruiser, Jinx, Graves). As an all-in champion, you want to maximize the chances of winning a fight, so real items go further than wards in these cases. There are games where you may need more than the trinket, but more often than not you can see the j4 topside and proceed to go ham on botlane. All-inning with a sightstone is a lot weaker compared to, say, a chainvest or 2 longswords.
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On March 03 2015 05:30 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 05:17 Slusher wrote:On March 03 2015 05:09 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 04:43 Alaric wrote:
But Blitz is also weaker in teamfights, where Thresh has a lower cooldown on Q (and longer effective cc duration unless Blitz can pull a diver out of a fight), Flay is AoE and can catch people without meleeing them, the Lantern is always at least a shield, and his ult rivals Blitz in terms of damage as long as you only get 2-3 people with it, on top of having that huge slow.
Thresh also gets tankier without items, and although his hooks aren't as much of a death sentence (no pun intended), if you have follow-up, like for example the popular Ahri, you can still wreck people with it, and you don't get punished for hooking a Gnar or Lissandra into your team. why are you teamfighting with blitz? because he is comparing the pros and cons of the entire kits holy shit conveniently missing out the straight up game winning ability of blitzcrank. There are few abilities that are absolutely game altering, even fewer that are non-ults. Blitz is one of them, and that's why he's good, trying to compare an all-round pick vs a specialist is fucking silly as hell.
veigar stun WAS one of them, but apparently buying merc treads is just too hard for counterplay
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On March 03 2015 05:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 05:30 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 05:17 Slusher wrote:On March 03 2015 05:09 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 04:43 Alaric wrote:
But Blitz is also weaker in teamfights, where Thresh has a lower cooldown on Q (and longer effective cc duration unless Blitz can pull a diver out of a fight), Flay is AoE and can catch people without meleeing them, the Lantern is always at least a shield, and his ult rivals Blitz in terms of damage as long as you only get 2-3 people with it, on top of having that huge slow.
Thresh also gets tankier without items, and although his hooks aren't as much of a death sentence (no pun intended), if you have follow-up, like for example the popular Ahri, you can still wreck people with it, and you don't get punished for hooking a Gnar or Lissandra into your team. why are you teamfighting with blitz? because he is comparing the pros and cons of the entire kits holy shit conveniently missing out the straight up game winning ability of blitzcrank. There are few abilities that are absolutely game altering, even fewer that are non-ults. Blitz is one of them, and that's why he's good, trying to compare an all-round pick vs a specialist is fucking silly as hell. veigar stun WAS one of them, but apparently buying merc treads is just too hard for counterplay
BUT BUT BUT MUH DAMAGE!
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On March 03 2015 05:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 05:30 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 05:17 Slusher wrote:On March 03 2015 05:09 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 04:43 Alaric wrote:
But Blitz is also weaker in teamfights, where Thresh has a lower cooldown on Q (and longer effective cc duration unless Blitz can pull a diver out of a fight), Flay is AoE and can catch people without meleeing them, the Lantern is always at least a shield, and his ult rivals Blitz in terms of damage as long as you only get 2-3 people with it, on top of having that huge slow.
Thresh also gets tankier without items, and although his hooks aren't as much of a death sentence (no pun intended), if you have follow-up, like for example the popular Ahri, you can still wreck people with it, and you don't get punished for hooking a Gnar or Lissandra into your team. why are you teamfighting with blitz? because he is comparing the pros and cons of the entire kits holy shit conveniently missing out the straight up game winning ability of blitzcrank. There are few abilities that are absolutely game altering, even fewer that are non-ults. Blitz is one of them, and that's why he's good, trying to compare an all-round pick vs a specialist is fucking silly as hell. veigar stun WAS one of them, but apparently buying merc treads is just too hard for counterplay
i get high blood pressure just thinking about it. I'm seriously tempted on asking for a skin refund on both of the viegar skins I have...
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On March 03 2015 05:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 05:30 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 05:17 Slusher wrote:On March 03 2015 05:09 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 04:43 Alaric wrote:
But Blitz is also weaker in teamfights, where Thresh has a lower cooldown on Q (and longer effective cc duration unless Blitz can pull a diver out of a fight), Flay is AoE and can catch people without meleeing them, the Lantern is always at least a shield, and his ult rivals Blitz in terms of damage as long as you only get 2-3 people with it, on top of having that huge slow.
Thresh also gets tankier without items, and although his hooks aren't as much of a death sentence (no pun intended), if you have follow-up, like for example the popular Ahri, you can still wreck people with it, and you don't get punished for hooking a Gnar or Lissandra into your team. why are you teamfighting with blitz? because he is comparing the pros and cons of the entire kits holy shit conveniently missing out the straight up game winning ability of blitzcrank. There are few abilities that are absolutely game altering, even fewer that are non-ults. Blitz is one of them, and that's why he's good, trying to compare an all-round pick vs a specialist is fucking silly as hell. veigar stun WAS one of them, but apparently buying merc treads is just too hard for counterplay
Anyone remember old gragas ult and how it didn't have a cooldown?
Also blitz is better than old veigar since he has the gamechanging ability without the drawback of dying instantly
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Baa?21248 Posts
On March 03 2015 05:47 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 05:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:On March 03 2015 05:30 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 05:17 Slusher wrote:On March 03 2015 05:09 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 04:43 Alaric wrote:
But Blitz is also weaker in teamfights, where Thresh has a lower cooldown on Q (and longer effective cc duration unless Blitz can pull a diver out of a fight), Flay is AoE and can catch people without meleeing them, the Lantern is always at least a shield, and his ult rivals Blitz in terms of damage as long as you only get 2-3 people with it, on top of having that huge slow.
Thresh also gets tankier without items, and although his hooks aren't as much of a death sentence (no pun intended), if you have follow-up, like for example the popular Ahri, you can still wreck people with it, and you don't get punished for hooking a Gnar or Lissandra into your team. why are you teamfighting with blitz? because he is comparing the pros and cons of the entire kits holy shit conveniently missing out the straight up game winning ability of blitzcrank. There are few abilities that are absolutely game altering, even fewer that are non-ults. Blitz is one of them, and that's why he's good, trying to compare an all-round pick vs a specialist is fucking silly as hell. veigar stun WAS one of them, but apparently buying merc treads is just too hard for counterplay i get high blood pressure just thinking about it. I'm seriously tempted on asking for a skin refund on both of the viegar skins I have...
I have every Veigar skin how do you think I feel?
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On March 03 2015 05:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 05:47 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 05:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:On March 03 2015 05:30 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 05:17 Slusher wrote:On March 03 2015 05:09 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 04:43 Alaric wrote:
But Blitz is also weaker in teamfights, where Thresh has a lower cooldown on Q (and longer effective cc duration unless Blitz can pull a diver out of a fight), Flay is AoE and can catch people without meleeing them, the Lantern is always at least a shield, and his ult rivals Blitz in terms of damage as long as you only get 2-3 people with it, on top of having that huge slow.
Thresh also gets tankier without items, and although his hooks aren't as much of a death sentence (no pun intended), if you have follow-up, like for example the popular Ahri, you can still wreck people with it, and you don't get punished for hooking a Gnar or Lissandra into your team. why are you teamfighting with blitz? because he is comparing the pros and cons of the entire kits holy shit conveniently missing out the straight up game winning ability of blitzcrank. There are few abilities that are absolutely game altering, even fewer that are non-ults. Blitz is one of them, and that's why he's good, trying to compare an all-round pick vs a specialist is fucking silly as hell. veigar stun WAS one of them, but apparently buying merc treads is just too hard for counterplay i get high blood pressure just thinking about it. I'm seriously tempted on asking for a skin refund on both of the viegar skins I have... I have every Veigar skin how do you think I feel?
Sheepish?
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On March 03 2015 05:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 05:47 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 05:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:On March 03 2015 05:30 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 05:17 Slusher wrote:On March 03 2015 05:09 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 04:43 Alaric wrote:
But Blitz is also weaker in teamfights, where Thresh has a lower cooldown on Q (and longer effective cc duration unless Blitz can pull a diver out of a fight), Flay is AoE and can catch people without meleeing them, the Lantern is always at least a shield, and his ult rivals Blitz in terms of damage as long as you only get 2-3 people with it, on top of having that huge slow.
Thresh also gets tankier without items, and although his hooks aren't as much of a death sentence (no pun intended), if you have follow-up, like for example the popular Ahri, you can still wreck people with it, and you don't get punished for hooking a Gnar or Lissandra into your team. why are you teamfighting with blitz? because he is comparing the pros and cons of the entire kits holy shit conveniently missing out the straight up game winning ability of blitzcrank. There are few abilities that are absolutely game altering, even fewer that are non-ults. Blitz is one of them, and that's why he's good, trying to compare an all-round pick vs a specialist is fucking silly as hell. veigar stun WAS one of them, but apparently buying merc treads is just too hard for counterplay i get high blood pressure just thinking about it. I'm seriously tempted on asking for a skin refund on both of the viegar skins I have... I have every Veigar skin how do you think I feel?
rekt
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On March 03 2015 05:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 05:47 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 05:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:On March 03 2015 05:30 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 05:17 Slusher wrote:On March 03 2015 05:09 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2015 04:43 Alaric wrote:
But Blitz is also weaker in teamfights, where Thresh has a lower cooldown on Q (and longer effective cc duration unless Blitz can pull a diver out of a fight), Flay is AoE and can catch people without meleeing them, the Lantern is always at least a shield, and his ult rivals Blitz in terms of damage as long as you only get 2-3 people with it, on top of having that huge slow.
Thresh also gets tankier without items, and although his hooks aren't as much of a death sentence (no pun intended), if you have follow-up, like for example the popular Ahri, you can still wreck people with it, and you don't get punished for hooking a Gnar or Lissandra into your team. why are you teamfighting with blitz? because he is comparing the pros and cons of the entire kits holy shit conveniently missing out the straight up game winning ability of blitzcrank. There are few abilities that are absolutely game altering, even fewer that are non-ults. Blitz is one of them, and that's why he's good, trying to compare an all-round pick vs a specialist is fucking silly as hell. veigar stun WAS one of them, but apparently buying merc treads is just too hard for counterplay i get high blood pressure just thinking about it. I'm seriously tempted on asking for a skin refund on both of the viegar skins I have... I have every Veigar skin how do you think I feel?
Cancerous?
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Because I'm not confident in soloQers to be able to play around a pick comp rather than see someone and run onto him and try to fight.
You can't just pick Blitzcrank and instantly have your team become smart.
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On March 03 2015 06:12 Alaric wrote:
Because I'm not confident in soloQers to be able to play around a pick comp rather than see someone and run onto him and try to fight.
You can't just pick Blitzcrank and instantly have your team become smart.
Your team doesn't have to be smart if you're Blitz. You just toss out hooks and if one lands, you kill that person. He is incredibly punishing. You can dodge every hook in the world, but if anyone on your team gets hit by just one at the wrong time, everything changes.
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On March 03 2015 06:12 Alaric wrote:
Because I'm not confident in soloQers to be able to play around a pick comp rather than see someone and run onto him and try to fight.
You can't just pick Blitzcrank and instantly have your team become smart.
Actually you sort of can. Blitz's grab is pretty obvious "go" signal for your team... Even the most bronzie of teams are going to burst any squishy you grab.
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Yeah but you have to grab someone before someone on your team runs 1v5 though. I wouldn't take the odds on average.
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On March 03 2015 06:25 Alaric wrote:
Yeah but you have to grab someone before someone on your team runs 1v5 though. I wouldn't take the odds on average.
not hard when you have a MS steroid, and you build mobility boots...
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On March 03 2015 06:25 Alaric wrote:
Yeah but you have to grab someone before someone on your team runs 1v5 though. I wouldn't take the odds on average.
How would thresh fare any better in this case
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On March 03 2015 06:25 Alaric wrote:
Yeah but you have to grab someone before someone on your team runs 1v5 though. I wouldn't take the odds on average.
Then the onus lies on you to evaluate whether or not you should fire out a hook in a certain situation. "Wouldn't take the odds" doesn't make much sense. Odds are that Blitz is going to make a very significant pull in your game, especially at lower elos, simply because of how punishing he is.
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On March 03 2015 06:36 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 06:25 Alaric wrote:
Yeah but you have to grab someone before someone on your team runs 1v5 though. I wouldn't take the odds on average. Then the onus lies on you to evaluate whether or not you should fire out a hook in a certain situation. "Wouldn't take the odds" doesn't make much sense. Odds are that Blitz is going to make a very significant pull in your game, especially at lower elos, simply because of how punishing he is.
"You miss 100% of the hooks you don't take" -Swain Gretzky
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On March 03 2015 06:18 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 06:12 Alaric wrote:
Because I'm not confident in soloQers to be able to play around a pick comp rather than see someone and run onto him and try to fight.
You can't just pick Blitzcrank and instantly have your team become smart. Your team doesn't have to be smart if you're Blitz. You just toss out hooks and if one lands, you kill that person. He is incredibly punishing. You can dodge every hook in the world, but if anyone on your team gets hit by just one at the wrong time, everything changes.
The Nidalee Theorem
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EPT
