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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 03 2014 02:10 Complete wrote: I don't really see how it would fix any of sejuani's weaknesses, unless it does in fact make her clear quicker/keep high mana better in a significant way. Given how overtuned that item is, it will make her clear better. Also the health stacking.... | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
v you'd expect an AoE teamfighter (and initiator) like Sejuani to have a rather high kda just because she racks in the assists though. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On July 03 2014 01:12 Slayer91 wrote: as for new ancient golem: 20 armour is about as good as 150 hp, so the trade off is quill coat regen/dmg vs 30% flat damage boost to monsters 25% hp vs tenacity (but realistically 25% hp vs 10% auto reduce since mercs is a cost effective way to get tenacity) +a free 1/2 sightstone so thats worth a minimum of 200 gold. with yellow trinket past lvl 9 its basically free sightstone. 15% cdr is worth about 600 gold, 25 resists is worth about 500 gold, so even with just the 200 bonus hp the new ancient golem is already more cost effective than the old one. The clear seems like it would be slower but at least you can spam more, maokai is still gonna be slow as shit probably so he's not gonna be good im guessing. Amumu can spam more in jungle so you can Q camps and you'll still probably clear fast. I think orianna is quite clearly too strong but you can counterplay against her at least. Kayle has no real counterplay she does insane DPS but also counters burst and has a heal against poke. The tradeoff is 100 health(350-200-25%bonus) + tenacity + butcher for a ward every 180s + 20 armor + 25% bonus health + barbs The cdr didn't change afaik. It's still 10%. Tenacity on merc treads is worth 115 gold, but it's kind of unfair to value tenacity at 115 gold. Going by that logic, ninja tabi's passive would be worth 0 gold. I'd value Tenacity just by feel as somewhere between 3-400 gold. You get around 400g value if you use the old gold value of movement speed on boots of speed in S2. Going by just cost efficiency, 20 armor is worth 400g. 100 health is worth 270 gold. Butcher provided 6% of target camp's life as healing, and 3% of target camp's life as mana. The elder lizard camp starts at 1500 life and has 2 small minions with about 500 life each. It grows but for approximation purposes let's say you do take the 9 seconds to clear the camp as Sejuani with either item. Personally I think barbs is faster, but not by much, but even 1s faster means you take less damage from the camp. The old butcher would heal for 150 (.06*2500) hp and 75 mana (.03*2500) The new barbs passive would heal for (9+4)*40/5 104 life. And 78 mana. (I assume you continue healing for the 4 seconds after you complete the camp). Every time you place a ward you get 75 gold value. Every time you buy more health you get more bonus health. I think it's a definite buff to tanky junglers due to increased clear speed and increased gold value late game. I don't think Sejuani in particular needed the item as her winrate's been high since S3, but it's nice that she gets this. Sejuani's always been strong, I think she's just not played because she doesn't have enough damage to duel people so she relies on her team and many junglers don't like that. Her KDA's also low according to lolking. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23442 Posts
On July 03 2014 02:40 obesechicken13 wrote: The tradeoff is 100 health(350-200-25%bonus) + tenacity + butcher for a ward every 180s + 20 armor + 25% bonus health + barbs The cdr didn't change afaik. It's still 10%. Tenacity on merc treads is worth 115 gold, but it's kind of unfair to value tenacity at 115 gold. Going by that logic, ninja tabi's passive would be worth 0 gold. I'd value Tenacity just by feel as somewhere between 3-400 gold. You get around 400g value if you use the old gold value of movement speed on boots of speed in S2. Going by just cost efficiency, 20 armor is worth 400g. 100 health is worth 270 gold. Butcher provided 6% of target camp's life as healing, and 3% of target camp's life as mana. The elder lizard camp starts at 1500 life and has 2 small minions with about 500 life each. It grows but for approximation purposes let's say you do take the 9 seconds to clear the camp as Sejuani with either item. Personally I think barbs is faster, but not by much, but even 1s faster means you take less damage from the camp. The old butcher would heal for 150 (.06*2500) hp and 75 mana (.03*2500) The new barbs passive would heal for (9+4)*40/5 104 life. And 78 mana. (I assume you continue healing for the 4 seconds after you complete the camp). Every time you place a ward you get 75 gold value. Every time you buy more health you get more bonus health. I think it's a definite buff to tanky junglers due to increased clear speed and increased gold value late game. I don't think Sejuani in particular needed the item as her winrate's been high since S3, but it's nice that she gets this. Sejuani's always been strong, I think she's just not played because she doesn't have enough damage to duel people so she relies on her team and many junglers don't like that. Her KDA's also low according to lolking. I was comparing the tenacity on ancient golem to buying ninja tabi//cdr boots instead of merc treads like you do last patch. For some reason you can't see this at all. It's a solution that makes perfect sense and skips all the valuing of tenacity and movement speed that you're trying to do. It's also very easy to see that 30% increased damage to jungle camps reduces clear time by 100/1.3 ==> 77% of original clear time. That means (and forgive my shitty mistake in previous post) in order to match that barbs passive needs to tick for 15 seconds to beat it which is an absurdly long time. With spirit stone ((20% increased damage) its back to my original break even of about 9 seconds. So we can assume clear time is actually longer with barbs compared to butcher. I have no idea why you responded to my post, when all you did was post inferior versions of the math I did (except that bit calculating butcher passive healing) Also I didn't factor in the bonus 25% into the initial calc of gold value just because 20 armour and 150 hp are equal gold values so we just add 25% bonus hp completely and not bonus hp on the items you buy later. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On July 03 2014 02:23 Dusty wrote: I LIKE THAT RIOT BUFFED TANKS I LIKE THAT RIOT NERFED SKARNER A LITTLE BIT BARON'S ICON IS NOW PURPLE WHICH FURTHER PERPETUATES THAT HE SHOULD BE CALLED BARNEY 10/10 PATCH wow, you should post these thoughts on reddit. better than all the other patch day content. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
nidalee weak - gets straight up number buffs across the board unpopular champ weak - change random fucking things and then nerf their other numbers out of fear that it might make them good, ensuring they stay terrible | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23442 Posts
hahaha they nerfed maokais CC and ult radius and sapling damage but they gave him explosion on sapling (probably useless because it takes so long to catch anyone and anyone can outrun and Q is already applied anyway, best case scenario you chain it with 0.5 second shorter Q slow for 0.5 second longer slow but then Q has a shorter CD so its basically even.) his Ult following him is arguably worse since you put it in areas you thought would take lots of damage and notnecessarily on yourself, and his W range reduce is a huge nerf even if they reduced cd and buffed damage | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
Apart from that a slight combat stats buff but we all know most of those champs need them. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On July 02 2014 14:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: You have accused me of saying an awful lot of things i never said and then insulted me for saying them. you should probably apologizeBeing able to control profits is the key to running a successful business. It's not that we're ignoring the fact that they make money. They are a business, and they SHOULD make money. But they're not trying to fuck the consumers. In fact, they're basically saying "here's something awesome for free, you can have it. If you want to give us some money, you can, and you'll get some pretty cool stuff for it, but you absolutely do not have to." And then you're extrapolating that to: Which is stupid, and then you go on to say: Which is a really dumb argument because it assumes that the pressure of advertising is more powerful than free will and that stupid people are the only ones who pay for this game. They're not. Normal, successful, happy, well-adjusted, and intelligent people make up a large portion of the population who spends money on League of Legends. Why do they do so? Because they choose to. Not because advertising was too strong. Not because Riot is evil. Not because they couldn't control themselves or were too dumb. It's just people like you and the other guy who are too dumb to realize this. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On July 03 2014 03:21 layabout wrote: You have accused me of saying an awful lot of things i never said and then insulted me for saying them. you should probably apologize Can you please point out where I accused you of saying anything that you didn't say? I will apologize for insults that were not warranted, but not for the ones that weren't. For reference, here are the two posts I made towards you: + Show Spoiler + On July 02 2014 10:18 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I would be willing to bet that 90% or more of the employees at Riot came from the community. Riot isn't evil. They make a game, they have a business model, they do it well. While I'm sure that the business side takes precedence because they're providing us with a 100% FREE GAME (note: 100% free--I own all champs, 14 runepages, and all the runes that matter and I have spent $0 total on this game), they are a business and they need to stay afloat. Do you think it's easy keeping these servers running 24/7 around the world without revenue? Do you know how many employees they have to pay? How about the international tournaments with massive production value and million-dollar prize pools? Of course they're going to address the issue of "how do we keep people playing?" and "how do we monetize this game?" And for what it's worth, I think it's very genuine of them to keep it fun. That's a part of their mission statement (http://www.riotgames.com/about) and, in my opinion, it's really fucking awesome of them that they provide all of this to us FOR FREE. It's 100% your choice to spend any money at all on this game, and I think that they should be rewarded if they provide content that influences people to choose to do so. Keep in mind--they did everything. They still do everything. You didn't do shit. If they wanna choose a new direction, it's their prerogative. Whine like a child about them saying "troll pool" if you want. But fuck off with the insults about them not being my friend. Riot has immensely improved the quality of my life, and I'm grateful to them as an organization and as individuals. Except Rivington, who's getting hit up on the backside. (I'm kidding, he's growing on me.) On July 02 2014 12:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: They are an organization, yes, but I have many people who I consider friends working in that organization. I'm not referring to Riot Games, Inc., but rather Riot as a staff. I actually consider quite a few people who work for or are affiliated with Riot to be my friends. Basically my argument comes down to who the fuck are you to be criticizing and telling them how to run their organization which provides a fun game for free to millions of players? It's not like they are harming anyone or doing anything unethical or illegal. What specifically about letting people play their game 100% for free is not "acceptable"? How is the rune system "done really badly"? What specifically has Riot done that you consider "bad"? Because from what I can tell your entire subjective view of them is baseless and retarded. They're giving you a free game. For free. Like, you don't have to pay anything. At all. Seriously $0 total. And you're calling that unacceptable? To me, that sounds fucking retarded. [edit] And furthermore, you're imposing this retarded idea that acting in one's own interest is a bad thing on them, a BUSINESS ORGANIZATION. Everyone acts in their own interest pretty much all the time. What kind of fucking argument is that? You act in your own interest. I act in my own interest. How did your brain make the jump from "they act in their own interest" to "they do bad things"? What the hell does that have to do with anything? [/edit] My main points are 1) You're dumb if you're up in arms over "Troll Pool" and 2) You're dumb if you think you have any right to criticize them about how they monetize the extra content in this game that they provide FOR FREE. You also said that Riot is not my friend which is straight up not true. I have multiple friends working for Riot so you can suck a bag of dicks before you tell me who is and isn't my friend. [edit] Actually I'm pretty sure you just quoted me fighting with PX and thought I was saying stuff about you. I'm changing my argument. My main point is 1) You're dumb. [/edit] User was warned for this post | ||
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
Quill Coat or new Golem better for the Moose? | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On July 03 2014 02:15 Fildun wrote: I played some Sejuani and I have to say that she feels pretty good now. This is more because of all the other junglers getting nerfed than the new item though. The only real difference is that you can use Q (which you typically don't max first) a bit more early and of course the new ward which is pretty nice. It's a fairly significant damage buff, especially factoring in the jungle dmg passives. Sej has also had one of the best engages in the game with her ult, though most people forget because she's kind of underpowered and rarely seen. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4180 Posts
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GozoShioda
205 Posts
On July 03 2014 02:23 Dusty wrote: I LIKE THAT RIOT BUFFED TANKS I LIKE THAT RIOT NERFED SKARNER A LITTLE BIT BARON'S ICON IS NOW PURPLE WHICH FURTHER PERPETUATES THAT HE SHOULD BE CALLED BARNEY 10/10 PATCH I LIKE THAT DUSTY MIGHT POTENTIALLY PERHAPS START STREAMING AGAIN??? | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 03 2014 04:55 M2 wrote: is the new reaver worth buying now on adcs? I kind of like it on Graves/Lucian as a 1st item when i have to go back often and need to assemble smth from smaller than bf sword pieces. compare it to BF sword + vamp scepter. you spend 300 on 10% cdr and the mana regen. | ||
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