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Alright, we're going to call it a day with all the Thorin drama, guys. I figured if it was about SI, onGamers, TSM, etc, it had some relevance to League but somehow you guys managed to devolve the discussion into an issue about race of all things.
Enough is enough. Let's move along now.
-NeoIllusions |
On June 12 2014 03:30 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Interestingly, I think Zhonya's is an underrated item for ADC's. Against certain types of assassin's, it's much more useful than a Banshee's Veil, e.g., during the Age of Vi and Zed.
this has been talked about time and time again
the active itself is not valuable as a survival item as all it does is paint a target on you, prevent you from DPSing for 3 seconds, and waste an item slot
it's a valuable item on AP champs because a) they tend to have less significant cooldowns on more potent abilities (i.e. you wouldn't make use of zonyas to recover during the cooldown between any of MFs abilities, but it's amazing to get off another rotation on ahri), b) they can utilize the stats efficiently, especially in an AP v AD mid matchup, and c) the aggro that zonyas disperses and then reinitializes is better on them, as they've likely used their spells by the time they zonya. if you use all your spells, do your damage, and then zonya, the time that the enemy spends getting around your statue is valuable dps time for your ADC
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On June 12 2014 03:36 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 03:30 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Interestingly, I think Zhonya's is an underrated item for ADC's. Against certain types of assassin's, it's much more useful than a Banshee's Veil, e.g., during the Age of Vi and Zed. Vs vi yeah but vs zed qss is infinite times better.Right now with crucible and stuff zhonya is kinda useless doe.
Crucible from support + randuins with botrk counteractive kills zed viability as long as you get a tiny amount of peel...QSS and banshee vs zed feels extra weird since it is building MR against an AD assassin.
Then again you can just play Sivir
Zhonya is definetely THE go to troll item pick for any decent, self loving ADC
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On June 12 2014 03:30 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Interestingly, I think Zhonya's is an underrated item for ADC's. Against certain types of assassin's, it's much more useful than a Banshee's Veil, e.g., during the Age of Vi and Zed.
Yes Zhonya's lets you survive but what happens during that time? The Bruiser you were kiting is now sitting on your face and hes not much lower HP because your the person who can get him down fast. Meanwhile your team has not had your sustained damage for the time your immune either so your behind in damage.
It works for casters because their damage comes in busts and in between those cooldowns they dont do much anyway so its no real loss.
Plus even then for Zhonya's to be really useful you need some way of escaping when it ends. However almost all ADC lack a means unlike stuff like LeBlanc so unless your team won the fight while you were immune your dead two seconds after you get out.
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On June 12 2014 03:42 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 03:36 nafta wrote:On June 12 2014 03:30 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Interestingly, I think Zhonya's is an underrated item for ADC's. Against certain types of assassin's, it's much more useful than a Banshee's Veil, e.g., during the Age of Vi and Zed. Vs vi yeah but vs zed qss is infinite times better.Right now with crucible and stuff zhonya is kinda useless doe. Crucible from support + randuins with botrk counteractive kills zed viability as long as you get a tiny amount of peel...QSS and banshee vs zed feels extra weird since it is building MR against an AD assassin. Then again you can just play Sivir Zhonya is definetely THE go to troll item pick for any decent, self loving ADC
Crucible doesn't remove death mark.Now zed is weak cause of op exhaust.Randuin is bad vs zed.
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Okay, let's concede for about half a second that the Zhonya's active is possibly useful on an AD.
Now consider how the hell does an AD spend 1600 gold on NLR, which gives approximately zero combat stats? With 1600 gold, you could have bought a giant's belt and most of a chain vest (or two cloth armors).
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qss way better at just gutting zed's damage anyways death mark is like 50%+ of his burst
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On June 12 2014 03:56 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 03:42 padfoota wrote:On June 12 2014 03:36 nafta wrote:On June 12 2014 03:30 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Interestingly, I think Zhonya's is an underrated item for ADC's. Against certain types of assassin's, it's much more useful than a Banshee's Veil, e.g., during the Age of Vi and Zed. Vs vi yeah but vs zed qss is infinite times better.Right now with crucible and stuff zhonya is kinda useless doe. Crucible from support + randuins with botrk counteractive kills zed viability as long as you get a tiny amount of peel...QSS and banshee vs zed feels extra weird since it is building MR against an AD assassin. Then again you can just play Sivir Zhonya is definetely THE go to troll item pick for any decent, self loving ADC Crucible doesn't remove death mark.Now zed is weak cause of op exhaust.Randuin is bad vs zed.
Damn I forgot about that because I DONT REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I RAN INTO A DECENT ZED ;_;
Exhaust fine, face of the mountain active fine, why is randuin bad tho? While the active/passive is more for kiting, 70 armor and 500 hp is still nothing to laugh at for an AD assassin
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On June 12 2014 04:20 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 03:56 nafta wrote:On June 12 2014 03:42 padfoota wrote:On June 12 2014 03:36 nafta wrote:On June 12 2014 03:30 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Interestingly, I think Zhonya's is an underrated item for ADC's. Against certain types of assassin's, it's much more useful than a Banshee's Veil, e.g., during the Age of Vi and Zed. Vs vi yeah but vs zed qss is infinite times better.Right now with crucible and stuff zhonya is kinda useless doe. Crucible from support + randuins with botrk counteractive kills zed viability as long as you get a tiny amount of peel...QSS and banshee vs zed feels extra weird since it is building MR against an AD assassin. Then again you can just play Sivir Zhonya is definetely THE go to troll item pick for any decent, self loving ADC Crucible doesn't remove death mark.Now zed is weak cause of op exhaust.Randuin is bad vs zed. Damn I forgot about that because I DONT REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I RAN INTO A DECENT ZED ;_; Exhaust fine, face of the mountain active fine, why is randuin bad tho? While the active/passive is more for kiting, 70 armor and 500 hp is still nothing to laugh at for an AD assassin
You still die.If you get qss it is pretty close to impossible to lose 1v1 to zed.Of course I am assuming you don't get any peel in soloq if you are in arranged you don't need to get any defensive items unless you are splitpushing vs him.
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On June 12 2014 04:09 Nos- wrote:
qss way better at just gutting zed's damage anyways death mark is like 50%+ of his burst
Most importantly, its cheaper, easier, doesn't take you out of the fight, doesn't immobilize you for 2 seconds so that you can be jumped on immediately by the rest of their team, and can be used on other forms of CC (without the said immobilizing for 2 seconds)
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On June 12 2014 03:30 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Interestingly, I think Zhonya's is an underrated item for ADC's. Against certain types of assassin's, it's much more useful than a Banshee's Veil, e.g., during the Age of Vi and Zed.
or you could just get a GA. Does practically the same thing Zhonyas does in that it allows you to "dodge" scary abilities by just dying and coming back. Plus it's more useful against everything else. It also has the added benefit of being cheaper (iirc).
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United States47024 Posts
If you need to remove Zed's Death Mark as an AD, you'd buy QSS. The MR is wasted if there are no magic damage sources, but even if you get absolutely zero value from the MR it's STILL less gold wasted than buying Zhonya's because Zhonya's wastes MORE gold on AP.
EDIT: lol I didn't refresh the page and this is what happens
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only ad i would even consider getting a zhonya on is tristana
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On June 12 2014 04:35 VayneAuthority wrote:
only ad i would even consider getting a zhonya on is tristana
Why not ez?
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RIP AP Lucian never forget
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Isn't GrandInquisitor kicking around the silver/gold elo? I mean, anyone can make any point, but maybe in his games there's less punishment for building sub-optimal items. In bronze who knows maybe Zhonyas (that gets used) is the hardest counter there is.
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On June 12 2014 04:53 Zdrastochye wrote:
Isn't GrandInquisitor kicking around the silver/gold elo? I mean, anyone can make any point, but maybe in his games there's less punishment for building sub-optimal items. In bronze who knows maybe Zhonyas (that gets used) is the hardest counter there is.
I am, but we often see Challenger players get Zhonyas to counter Zed too.
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But do adcs get Zhonyas? I can honestly see certain roles but adc not so much, considering if you're doing no damage (and bring no cc) to the team I'm not sure how useful you're being.
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On June 12 2014 05:02 Zdrastochye wrote:
But do adcs get Zhonyas? I can honestly see certain roles but adc not so much, considering if you're doing no damage (and bring no cc) to the team I'm not sure how useful you're being.
Yes, that's what I meant. Challengers who get Zhonyas.
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EPT
