EPT[Patch 4.5] Rune Rework General Discussion - Page 92
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Plus, if you have say 4 bans and only have 2 at the start then 2 later on, it increases the chances of an OP or signature champion getting into the game because the teams have a chance to pick it before the third ban. Also, it adds a lot of weight to champions that can be seen in multiple roles because it lets you fake the other team into wasting bans. It probably doesn't make a big diff for unorganized play, but for pro play it adds a lot of strategy to drafting and is IMO one of the cooler things about Dota. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 17 2014 00:05 Alzadar wrote: I don't get how interweaving bans and picks makes any difference. Explain? Let me try give you an example. The issue I have is I'm still far more familiar with dota drafting so it's hard for me to figure out a way to make a league example but I'll go for it. If all else fails I'll msg Yango when he gets online, should be another hour until then though. So currently what happens is that all the banning is done blind. The only real information for a team to use is what is currently considered "overpowered" and what the enemy has used previously. None of this information is actually about what the team is currently using. This is different in interwoven draft phase. I'll try simplify it as best I can Ban phase 1 - This is largely the same as how it is now, the only real difference is that there is a bigger emphasis on what to let through rather than what to take away Pick phase 1 - Here is where it gets interesting. Teams can either choose to snatch up a "powerful" hero that requires a team or gameplan around it or pick up more of an all rounder in order to not give away what kind of gameplan they are looking at. Another option is to pick up supports you favor that can work in various gameplans. Ban phase 2 - Now we get to the meat of the draft. Here you can either ban heroes that you think your enemy wants to pick up for their gameplan or you can remove heroes that you know will work well against your own gameplan. The trick here is to try not give away exactly what you want while still removing threats. Pick phase 2 - At last you can either round out your team with whatever is left over if you already committed to a gameplan or you can finally commit to a gameplan. The key things to note here is that the ban phase 2 allows you to pick something that is "hard countered" in pick phase 1 by eliminating those obstacles. At the same time the disconnect also allows you to not commit to any strategy while trying to force your enemy to show their hand allowing you to remove what they need in ban phase 2.Currently in LoL draft there is no way for a team to "protect" a hero or gamplan this way as all bans are done prior. I hope this helps you understand it a bit better. I admit I'm rather bad at this(Just exercised too lol). The draft phase is actually one of the most fascinating aspects of competitive Dota with lots of subtlety that I really did it an injustice in this post | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
With interwoven picks and bans, you can ban some generalistic hard initiation champs/general OP, then see what the enemy team starts to build toward, and use the next set of bans to try and shutdown that comp, especially if it looks like they want to pick counters to you. Alternatively, ban generic strong champions, look at what the enemy team starts picking while taking the most generic picks of your comp yourself, and if their draft isn't too hard/dangerous for yours you can take the most niche picks in the second set, after having banned the counters still left open. If their draft is, you can adapt your remaining picks with other choices (assuming you've drafted in a flexible enough manner) while using the bans to disrupt what you think their plan is. For example, a niche champion like Kog'Maw with strong counters wouldn't be first picked. If you spend every ban on stuff dangerous for Kog your bans will give the enemy team an idea of your plan and alternatives can still remain available. If you ban generic/FotM/mains who're coincidentally good against Kog, pick your other stuff, you can then decide if the draft makes Kog viable, and in that case you use your remaining bans on stuff good against Kog amongst the remaining positions to be picked by the enemy (say Leona and Vi if they still have to pick jungle and support) then you pick him. Otherwise, you adapt. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'm getting a lot more trolls, disconnects, ragers, etc than usual for several days now. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
I have run into more people just quitting on a game for no particular reason other than a teammate saying something perfectly reasonable. I figured its just the luck of the draw though. Edit: And I've possibly run into a drop hacker or two. Haven't run into those before. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 16 2014 21:51 arb wrote: i remember the good ole days when it was 4 bans, and garen sion taric and mummy were all of them lolol Bring back the Taric Garen lane please. | ||
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
I know Riot wants to have a low barrier of entry and a low knowledge to play requirement, but with the change to top turrets and other obscure things, I don't see how interwoven bans is any worse. The more people have to discuss the better they will be in the long run I think. Like folks mentioned, if they are too worried for SoloQ (and honestly they shouldn't be) do it for Ranked 5's and competitive. The only reason folks stay uncoordinated in SoloQ I feel is because they never have any incentive to coordinate. There is this air of "if I carry I will win, therefore if my whole team is thinking this way, we will win" that I don't know if I am explaining properly. It's sort of like playing CoD/Quake rather than playing TF2/Tribes. I feel if they foster more cooperation rather than this whole team carry thing, the lower ranked folks will become better for it,and also they would appriciate the more strategic level of the game when the pros play it. I feel Riot could ween folks into interwoven picks/bans and not suffer as much as they think they would. This team builder idea is fairly popular and it's a change of the pick/ban phase. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Ban/pick only has meaning when you have some level of coordination to the draft which is pretty unlikely when everyone is just picking their own shit by what they feel like playing. If you're just banning OP heroes (which is what solo queue bans pretty much are), then the next most "OP" heroes become the OP heroes you actually play and you're back to square one. It doesn't meaningfully change how the game plays the way drafting in competitive play does. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On April 17 2014 04:46 TheYango wrote: Somewhat yes, but it doesn't fundamentally change the experience of solo queue. It just means you sometimes get a guy who has no self-respect playing the super-OP hero but by and large games still pan out the same way. No, it turns into every game every team picking the same brokenly OP heroes since riot balance is really dependent on being able to ban out their screwups. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On April 17 2014 00:46 Ketara wrote: Is it just me or have games gotten way more toxic in the last week or so? I'm getting a lot more trolls, disconnects, ragers, etc than usual for several days now. It's seemed like that for me recently. So many people acting like they're 12. Only had one drophack though! | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
1. Do not listen. Because they rather sit idly and do nothing instead of taking the advantage of seeing two opposing players at bot and take baron. 2. Listen, but executes very badly. Because they do not know how to properly bait/towerdive/etc. At the end of the day, it's still my fault. Beyong playing Katarina and Amumu, I am not really good at other champions (I think I am decent at TF, but TF is still a bit weak and I am rusty). I also play too conservatively and often do not carry very hard (again, unless I am playing things like Katarina). I think if I can get to plat 5 on my smurf without playing those 2 champions, it would be a huge achievement for me... I am not sure how long it'll take though. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
easiest way to cause uncoordinated players to react in absurd ways that your team can kappatalize on | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 17 2014 09:26 FinestHour wrote: just play strong split pushers that dont really require much from your team easiest way to cause uncoordinated players to react in absurd ways that your team can kappatalize on That's one of my problems unfortunately. While I wouldn't say my map awareness is total garbage, I am too opportunistic. I can't even count how many times I died to a jungler 1v1 on my smurf because I thought "just one more wave then B". It's easier for me to play with better teammates because they can also keep me informed of potential danger. But with high silver baddies I have to rely on myself to look out for everything. | ||
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