EPT[Patch 4.5] Rune Rework General Discussion - Page 41
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
as for the bit on top lane balance, there's a much longer post to be made here but to be brief the 'renekton bar' has been recognized as fundamental to top lane diversity for a very long time, certainly well before season 4. if that's all statikk had to say on the subject, then he's not really saying anything at all. the more useful question, at least in my mind, is how top lane and mid lane diversity differ, why that is the case, and how interactions in the 'healthier' lane can be copied over to the other | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On April 08 2014 23:23 phyvo wrote: I know people were talking about top lane balance recently so I thought I'd share what Riot was thinking: + Show Spoiler + 2) Top Lane and the "Renekton Bar" As with any lane, we are definitely aware and concerned that there may not be enough champion diversity in the Top Lane, especially at the competitive level. This is largely due to what we believe are "lane bullies" who essentially represent the relative early game power level needed to enter and compete in the lane. Currently, that bar is the "Renekton Bar." One way to reduce the severity of the "Renekton Bar" would be simply to tone down Renekton's power a notch. In this case, directly lowering the bar would potentially create an even more unhealthy situation where a different champion rises to the top and acts as the new "bar." We actually see Renekton as one of the more interesting top lane champions in the game, and so instead of nerfing here, we're looking to buff. We're in the process of looking at champions that we think provide interesting and healthy gameplay in the top lane, and finding ways to nudge them up to be able to better compete in the current Top Lane environment. This doesn't mean these guys should just now outright beat champions like Renekton, but it hopefully means they have a better chance of going toe-to-toe with him or maybe even just surviving the lane against him and then providing some unique strengths to their team later on. As a note, since we can't address every single top laner we'd like in one patch, this will be an ongoing project as we continue to bring more and more champions into the fold. source Saw this yesterday, interested to see if it actually works haha. But the idea of proposing buffs over nerfs is at least a good start. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 08 2014 23:29 Kyrie wrote: riot puts out a decent number of buffs, although the thought process/timing on them is about as impressive as with nerfs (hello corki s3 worlds) as for the bit on top lane balance, there's a much longer post to be made here but to be brief the 'renekton bar' has been recognized as fundamental to top lane diversity for a very long time, certainly well before season 4. if that's all statikk had to say on the subject, then he's not really saying anything at all. the more useful question, at least in my mind, is how top lane and mid lane diversity differ, why that is the case, and how interactions in the 'healthier' lane can be copied over to the other Everyone knows why top and mid lane differ. Top lane is this melee brawl where the champion with better stats come out on top. Mid lane actually requires finesse. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On April 08 2014 23:29 Kyrie wrote: riot puts out a decent number of buffs, although the thought process/timing on them is about as impressive as with nerfs (hello corki s3 worlds) as for the bit on top lane balance, there's a much longer post to be made here but to be brief the 'renekton bar' has been recognized as fundamental to top lane diversity for a very long time, certainly well before season 4. if that's all statikk had to say on the subject, then he's not really saying anything at all. the more useful question, at least in my mind, is how top lane and mid lane diversity differ, why that is the case, and how interactions in the 'healthier' lane can be copied over to the other How top and mid diversities differ? Mid lane is filled with champs that are too shit to go top, that's how it differs. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
Edit: Or are you saying they would at least survive? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Try sending Lux top against Renekton and see what happens. It's not pretty. She'll be all "We can do this!" and you'll be like "No Lux. No, we can't do this." | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On April 08 2014 23:50 Ketara wrote: They're not GOOD picks, but if they go there they don't automatically get destroyed by popular mid laners. Try sending Lux top against Renekton and see what happens. It's not pretty. She'll be all "We can do this!" and you'll be like "No Lux. No, we can't do this." Not with that attitude. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
1. Ban Lulu. 2. Pick a top laner. 3. Pick a second top laner. 4. Send a top laner mid. 5. Slap your dick on your keyboard and win the game. People already ban Lulu every game anyways so it's not like you're doing anything new. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On April 08 2014 23:29 Kyrie wrote: riot puts out a decent number of buffs, although the thought process/timing on them is about as impressive as with nerfs (hello corki s3 worlds) as for the bit on top lane balance, there's a much longer post to be made here but to be brief the 'renekton bar' has been recognized as fundamental to top lane diversity for a very long time, certainly well before season 4. if that's all statikk had to say on the subject, then he's not really saying anything at all. the more useful question, at least in my mind, is how top lane and mid lane diversity differ, why that is the case, and how interactions in the 'healthier' lane can be copied over to the other Even if the "Renekton bar" is something they've used in the past, it certainly doesn't hurt to focus on it now. They've nerfed most of the popular Season 4 Top laners (as well as Doran's Shield) and yet they are still getting played over other champions. It's not perfect but it seems like a good starting point. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
It's a small lane and most popular mid laners have some sort of dash or movement skill, so if there's a problem they just dash back to their tower and it's k. That's why they can't go top, suddenly their movement tool doesn't immediately get them back to their tower. Top lane on the other hand is full of champions who, when something bad happens, they just say fuck it and kill the other guy. This is why they can go mid just fine. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On April 08 2014 23:50 Ketara wrote: They're not GOOD picks, but if they go there they don't automatically get destroyed by popular mid laners. Try sending Lux top against Renekton and see what happens. It's not pretty. She'll be all "We can do this!" and you'll be like "No Lux. No, we can't do this." Using Lux to compare to Renekton Bar is unfair lol. Even most top can't handle him anyway. How about Zigg, Lulu vs Renekton? I'm sure they can handle him just fine. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Ziggs I dunno. It's possible! | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
TBH though I think top lane is pretty healthy right now. In the past four days or so in ranked I've seen Aatrox, Akali, Irelia, Jax, Jayce, Kayle, Nasus, Pantheon, Renekton, Riven, Rumble, Ryze, Shyvana, Singed, Teemo, Trundle, Tryndamere and Warwick. What other lane has close that variety? The Singed game was in my promo, most bizarre game. He started proxying at level 1 and so I mostly just last hit under tower as Trundle for 10 minutes. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On April 09 2014 00:00 Alzadar wrote: Mid lane you often don't have to interact with the enemy champion because you both just clear waves, but top if you can't at least put up a fight 1v1 you just won't get any CS (unless you are Jayce, clear from 1500 range NP). TBH though I think top lane is pretty healthy right now. In the past four days or so in ranked I've seen Aatrox, Akali, Irelia, Jax, Jayce, Kayle, Nasus, Pantheon, Renekton, Riven, Rumble, Ryze, Shyvana, Singed, Teemo, Trundle, Tryndamere and Warwick. What other lane has close that variety? It's terrible in competitive play. It's pretty much all Renekton, Shyvana, and Trundle Edit: At least in OGN. LCS gets the occasional Jax (thanks Zion) and Aatrox pick. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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