On March 22 2014 21:28 arb wrote:
Pretty sure that Graves buff will make him retarded good botlane without the severe drop off from someone face tanking his ult

Pretty sure Graves will still be terrible.

Fusilero

United Kingdom50293 Posts

March 22 2014 13:07 GMT

#1102

On March 22 2014 21:19 IMoperator wrote:

Show nested quote +

idk if naniwa would be good in a team game like league lol.

Maybe he'd be like uzi and needs someone to tame him to unlock his potential. That's when sase switches to league and naniwa/sase becomes the greatest bot lane ever.

Gahlo

United States35174 Posts

March 22 2014 13:52 GMT

#1103

On March 22 2014 21:28 arb wrote:
Pretty sure that Graves buff will make him retarded good botlane without the severe drop off from someone face tanking his ult

Yeah....no.

oneofthem

Cayman Islands24199 Posts

March 22 2014 15:35 GMT

#1104

mandu's twitch stream

http://www.twitch.tv/free7037

his struggle against xsplit continues.

cLutZ

United States19574 Posts

March 22 2014 16:00 GMT

#1105

The weird thing about the gragas q change is I don't see how a melee is going to charge it up

kongoline

6318 Posts

March 22 2014 16:07 GMT

#1106

im so fucking annoyed by the trinket change, nothing like going to ur 2nd buff and see it stolen zzzzzzz

Sufficiency

Canada23833 Posts

March 22 2014 16:22 GMT

#1107

Did some analysis on Yasuo counters, results below (with all the junks filtered out):

[image loading]

When Yasuo plays against Nidalee, for example, Yasuo wins 4.8756% more often, after adjusting for overall power of Yasuo and Nidalee. On the other hand, he seems to lose (1 - 0.9.622) * 100% more often against Fizz, after adjusting for overall power of Yasuo and Fizz.

AsnSensation

Germany24009 Posts

March 22 2014 16:28 GMT

#1108

On March 23 2014 00:35 oneofthem wrote:
mandu's twitch stream

http://www.twitch.tv/free7037

his struggle against xsplit continues.

surprised he streams on twitch instead of afreeca where he'd probably make more money.

While I like that he streams to the west now, it's still questionable considering he's on break "for health reasons."

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

March 22 2014 16:32 GMT

#1109

On March 22 2014 21:37 Prog wrote:

Show nested quote +

Pretty sure Graves will still be terrible.

Agreed. His ult being plain outclassed by jinx ult is one weakness and will be addressed by this change, but he has a ton of other weaknesses that make him underplayed like his low range.

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

March 22 2014 16:40 GMT

#1110

On March 23 2014 01:22 Sufficiency wrote:
Did some analysis on Yasuo counters, results below (with all the junks filtered out):

[image loading]

Would be interested to see data from this project on Lux for the Lux guide. tyty

Sufficiency

Canada23833 Posts

March 22 2014 16:46 GMT

#1111

On March 23 2014 01:40 Ketara wrote:

Show nested quote +

Would be interested to see data from this project on Lux for the Lux guide. tyty

I am going to run it for Lux and Veigar once my current batch is done. So maybe later tonight? We'll see. I can eventually do it for every champion, but right now it takes ~1 hour per champion so it's kind of slow.

Meanwhile, here's Leona:

[image loading]

I really like this new format better. It's easier to read.

ticklishmusic

United States15977 Posts

March 22 2014 17:15 GMT

#1112

On March 23 2014 01:32 Ryuu314 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Agreed. His ult being plain outclassed by jinx ult is one weakness and will be addressed by this change, but he has a ton of other weaknesses that make him underplayed like his low range.

I'd like it if they tweaked Graves a bit, maybe gave him some horrendous base attack speed but significantly increased his passive defense steroid and the rest of his damage mitigation and turned him into a character that was a poor AD but was extremely effective as close-range bruiser.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

March 22 2014 17:19 GMT

#1113

You mean apart from the fact that he already has 0.625 base AS and only 2.9% per level, making him bottom of the barrel in that regard?

nafta

Bulgaria18893 Posts

March 22 2014 17:20 GMT

#1114

Problem with graves is he doesn't really fit the meta AND his numbers are a bit on the low side.

VayneAuthority

United States8983 Posts

March 22 2014 17:32 GMT

#1115

lets face it, graves is just a bad lucian. he would need significant buffs to get play over said champion. Probably on his tankiness or his smoke or something that gives him an actual niche because Lucian outclasses him in every other way.

The only reason to pick him ever seems like if you are doing some gimmicky darkness comp or something. nocturne/graves/bunch of assassins so other team has no idea whats goin on or something trl0l0l0l

Roffles

Pitcairn19291 Posts

March 22 2014 17:58 GMT

#1116

On March 23 2014 02:20 nafta wrote:
Problem with graves is he doesn't really fit the meta AND his numbers are a bit on the low side.

Sir, if you buy a hurricane you can basically have E always up!

ticklishmusic

United States15977 Posts

March 22 2014 17:59 GMT

#1117

On March 23 2014 02:19 Alaric wrote:
You mean apart from the fact that he already has 0.625 base AS and only 2.9% per level, making him bottom of the barrel in that regard?

Except that Jinx, Ezreal, Corki and Sivir all have lower AS at 18.

And its not like quickdraw is a massive steroid or anything.

NeedsmoreCELLTECH

Netherlands1242 Posts

March 22 2014 18:02 GMT

#1118

I think that having low range, low utility and unimpressive self peel make Graves pretty meh.

ticklishmusic

United States15977 Posts

March 22 2014 18:03 GMT

#1119

Also the really high mana costs are kind of a problem

Alaric

France45622 Posts

March 22 2014 18:16 GMT

#1120

On March 23 2014 02:59 ticklishmusic wrote:

Show nested quote +

Except that Jinx, Ezreal, Corki and Sivir all have lower AS at 18.

And its not like quickdraw is a massive steroid or anything.

Yeah, it's not like Jinx's steroid beats his natural AS after one attack, and his own steroid after two, and that if she doesn't use it she has a 175 range advantage on him.
It's not like Sivir's steroid is bigger than his and she deals better AoE damage than him in terms of dps so after his burst (which is low by level 18 standard) she'll quickly gain the advantage.
Oh, or the fact that Corki's spells give him way more damage and that he can effectively kite with missiles for a way longer reach than his.
Ezreal was specifically set to the same AS as him around when W was broken. He has longer reach with Q, and his steroid is virtually always up.

So yeah, for someone who's got one of the shortest ranges and reaches, he's actually not outputting much dps. Also his base AS+range mean it's actually a pain to last hit with him early on against a lane with range advantage for example (stuff like Leona makes up for it because it provides a big threat to create space after level 2).