• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:38
CEST 17:38
KST 00:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down10ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League53Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.166
StarCraft 2
General
REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Sagi.gg Launcher Released Do we even care about balance? [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL23] RO24 Group Stage KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4 [ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8177 users

[Patch 4.4] CUDDLY INCOMING! ヽ(*・ω・)ノ - Page 57

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 55 56 57 58 59 158 Next
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
March 22 2014 18:20 GMT
#1121
IDK, Riot keeps on saying they don't want champions to simply eclipse other champions but the combination of having so many and their current philosophy makes it seem basically impossible. I kinda wish I knew the history of other mobas so that I could compare them all and make wise-sounding pronouncements about methods of balance.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-22 18:49:19
March 22 2014 18:49 GMT
#1122
On March 23 2014 03:20 phyvo wrote:
IDK, Riot keeps on saying they don't want champions to simply eclipse other champions but the combination of having so many and their current philosophy makes it seem basically impossible. I kinda wish I knew the history of other mobas so that I could compare them all and make wise-sounding pronouncements about methods of balance.

Well since you can't play LoL online with those servers it's even worst, they can't get information about balance !

(That's my theory when I see the last changes)
The legend of Darien lives on
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 22 2014 18:52 GMT
#1123
Comissioned by Ketera: all Lux match ups sorted by p-value in ascending order.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-22 19:09:45
March 22 2014 18:57 GMT
#1124
Are the reds the ones she does well against or the ones she does poorly against? I'm pretty sure blue is good and red is bad yes?

And these are adjusted for said champions overall winrate?

I really don't understand what the P value means.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
NeedsmoreCELLTECH
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Netherlands1242 Posts
March 22 2014 19:08 GMT
#1125
Could I get jinx and/or Thresh matchups? Awesome stuff so far.
Get huge or die mirin | Diamond on LoL
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-22 19:13:28
March 22 2014 19:12 GMT
#1126
On March 23 2014 03:16 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2014 02:59 ticklishmusic wrote:
On March 23 2014 02:19 Alaric wrote:
You mean apart from the fact that he already has 0.625 base AS and only 2.9% per level, making him bottom of the barrel in that regard?


Except that Jinx, Ezreal, Corki and Sivir all have lower AS at 18.

And its not like quickdraw is a massive steroid or anything.

Yeah, it's not like Jinx's steroid beats his natural AS after one attack, and his own steroid after two, and that if she doesn't use it she has a 175 range advantage on him.
It's not like Sivir's steroid is bigger than his and she deals better AoE damage than him in terms of dps so after his burst (which is low by level 18 standard) she'll quickly gain the advantage.
Oh, or the fact that Corki's spells give him way more damage and that he can effectively kite with missiles for a way longer reach than his.
Ezreal was specifically set to the same AS as him around when W was broken. He has longer reach with Q, and his steroid is virtually always up.

So yeah, for someone who's got one of the shortest ranges and reaches, he's actually not outputting much dps. Also his base AS+range mean it's actually a pain to last hit with him early on against a lane with range advantage for example (stuff like Leona makes up for it because it provides a big threat to create space after level 2).


I'm not sure why we're arguing these numbers at this point, because I'm fairly sure we are capable of using the LolWiki and citing numbers to support points. I know Graves is crap at this point and I'm not going to argue to the contrary. The point I made, which you seem to have missed, is that FOTM champs may not necessarily have the best base stats. Base stats barely matter if the rest of your kit is good enough, which is something I said about Jinx when she first came out.

Anyways, this is completely unrelated to what I originally said about gutting Graves' already mediocre attack speed and giving him better damage mitigation (I'd even be okay with doubling his passive honestly, though maybe cap stacks at 8) to effectively change him into a ranged bruiser with decent sustained damage- not a true marksman or whatever, but maybe someone who would be an effective toplane. I doubt Riot will ever redo a champ to be a different or potentially meta-ambiguous role though, so that's a shame.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
March 22 2014 19:15 GMT
#1127
Been rocking out the offensive Maokai in ranked, 4-2 thus far and 9-5 overall this week. With some AP and offensive stuff you one shot the small camps with Q/E starting at lvl 2 and the W actually does dmg to monsters now since the charm change.

It's pretty fun, if you are looking for something different might be fun!

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
March 22 2014 19:23 GMT
#1128
On March 23 2014 03:57 Ketara wrote:
Are the reds the ones she does well against or the ones she does poorly against? I'm pretty sure blue is good and red is bad yes?

And these are adjusted for said champions overall winrate?

I really don't understand what the P value means.

pretty much obvious that lux does good against people with no strong gap closer.
and bad against anyone that can blink.
liftlift > tsm
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
March 22 2014 19:28 GMT
#1129
I feel like the attack speed nerf is what really caused people to stop playing him. Not that long ago it was Graves/Corki/Ezreal in every game anyways
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
March 22 2014 19:29 GMT
#1130
On March 23 2014 04:28 arb wrote:
I feel like the attack speed nerf is what really caused people to stop playing him. Not that long ago it was Graves/Corki/Ezreal in every game anyways


Not that long ago meaning season 2

Those were the good old days
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-22 19:35:42
March 22 2014 19:31 GMT
#1131
On March 23 2014 03:57 Ketara wrote:
Are the reds the ones she does well against or the ones she does poorly against? I'm pretty sure blue is good and red is bad yes?

And these are adjusted for said champions overall winrate?

I really don't understand what the P value means.


Blue -> Lux is strong against
Red -> Lux is weak against.

Yes, adjustments were made already.

EDIT: read the table as follows.

p-value < 0.02: strong evidence of good/match match up
p-value > 0.02 but < 0.05: weak evidence
p-value > 0.05: no evidence
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-22 19:36:02
March 22 2014 19:34 GMT
#1132
So what we can get from this is Lux is apparently good against Corki, Skarner, Volibear and Kassadin, bad against Ahri, and nobody is playing her.

Nothing really surprising I suppose.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
March 22 2014 19:34 GMT
#1133
On March 23 2014 04:29 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2014 04:28 arb wrote:
I feel like the attack speed nerf is what really caused people to stop playing him. Not that long ago it was Graves/Corki/Ezreal in every game anyways


Not that long ago meaning season 2

Those were the good old days

I admit it got stale to see every game but it was alot better than dealing with some retard playing Caitlyn, or someone playing Jinx and still being relevant due to her retarded ass ult
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
March 22 2014 19:36 GMT
#1134
Man, watching OGN intros for each tournament, and final. Riot needs to step up their game... OGN production value so good.
liftlift > tsm
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 22 2014 19:37 GMT
#1135
On March 23 2014 04:34 Ketara wrote:
So what we can get from this is Lux is apparently good against Corki, Skarner, Volibear and Kassadin, bad against Ahri, and nobody is playing her.


Yes. That's what the methodology tells us. Not very good, I know.

Lux isn't very popular though - the sample size isn't too big. If I had more data maybe I can infer more interesting things.

Eiii please.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Frudgey
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada3367 Posts
March 22 2014 19:39 GMT
#1136
On March 23 2014 04:34 Ketara wrote:
So what we can get from this is Lux is apparently good against Corki, Skarner, Volibear and Kassadin, bad against Ahri, and nobody is playing her.

Nothing really surprising I suppose.

I think the real take away from this information is that Urgot hard counters Lux.
It is better to die for The Emperor than live for yourself.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
March 22 2014 19:42 GMT
#1137
On March 23 2014 04:39 Frudgey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2014 04:34 Ketara wrote:
So what we can get from this is Lux is apparently good against Corki, Skarner, Volibear and Kassadin, bad against Ahri, and nobody is playing her.

Nothing really surprising I suppose.

I think the real take away from this information is that Urgot hard counters Lux.


Clearly.

I know I've played Lux vs mid Urgot but it was so long ago and probably only one game and I can't remember it at all.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
March 22 2014 20:16 GMT
#1138
On March 23 2014 04:42 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2014 04:39 Frudgey wrote:
On March 23 2014 04:34 Ketara wrote:
So what we can get from this is Lux is apparently good against Corki, Skarner, Volibear and Kassadin, bad against Ahri, and nobody is playing her.

Nothing really surprising I suppose.

I think the real take away from this information is that Urgot hard counters Lux.


Clearly.

I know I've played Lux vs mid Urgot but it was so long ago and probably only one game and I can't remember it at all.

Statistically speaking you got curbstomped.
Glorious SEA doto
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
March 22 2014 21:43 GMT
#1139
Is there any way to control for Elo in these? Like if you only take diamond 5 or above in solo queue?

That would be the shit and probably far closer to theoretically sound. And Ahri should get dunked by a good Lux imo, even if the data doesn't show it.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-22 21:53:16
March 22 2014 21:49 GMT
#1140
Nvm, found the Graves changes. They seem very weak compared to what could be done. If they want Graves to be played more often, don't have all his stacks fall off after 3 seconds, give him a small AS buff per level, and increase his max HP slightly if you want him to be an ADC that gets in close to brawl with people.
Prev 1 55 56 57 58 59 158 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 22m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko478
LamboSC2 269
Hui .264
Classic 61
Codebar 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 41429
Calm 5494
Bisu 2350
EffOrt 941
Shuttle 649
firebathero 568
Light 362
Stork 319
Soma 308
Rush 304
[ Show more ]
Snow 212
ZerO 185
Hyuk 153
Soulkey 126
Dewaltoss 120
Leta 115
hero 111
Sharp 56
Hyun 56
PianO 53
Barracks 47
Movie 45
ggaemo 44
910 38
Mong 34
Killer 34
Trap 28
HiyA 25
Yoon 23
Terrorterran 21
Sacsri 20
sorry 18
Hm[arnc] 17
Shinee 16
Shine 15
soO 13
Free 10
Noble 8
ProTech5
Dota 2
Gorgc14245
qojqva1838
syndereN349
Fuzer 119
League of Legends
Reynor72
Counter-Strike
byalli707
fl0m206
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes347
Trikslyr65
Other Games
singsing1720
B2W.Neo1099
hiko919
Beastyqt654
ceh9415
XaKoH 221
Liquid`VortiX178
mouzStarbuck166
Liquid`LucifroN29
ZerO(Twitch)17
Chillindude12
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 54
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LUISG 0
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 14
• FirePhoenix8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2972
League of Legends
• Nemesis1790
• Jankos1755
• TFBlade521
Other Games
• Shiphtur352
• WagamamaTV267
Upcoming Events
OSC
7h 22m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
19h 22m
Harstem vs Zoun
Harstem vs GgMaChine
GgMaChine vs Lambo
Harstem vs Lambo
GgMaChine vs Zoun
Lambo vs Zoun
OSC
22h 22m
FEL
1d 17h
Patches Events
1d 21h
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
FEL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-20
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.