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On February 23 2014 02:56 Haiq343 wrote:You all cannot seriously be arguing that because homophobic norms among gaming culture are common that it is "OK". That's just going to go down the rabbit hole of privilege and ignorance w/r/t minorities. It does matter yo, either your language and unconscious (I hope) behaviors are perpetuating and reinforcing negative stereotypes, or you are opposed to them. There's not a morally defensible benign apathy position here folks. Remember that gender discussion that came up a while ago? TS folks in the U.S. have an attempted suicide rate of 41% which is terrifyingly high [Source]. That's not coincidental to the society they find themselves in. So let's not even have that "argument". What are people starting/building first on squishable pokey supports (Karma/Lulu/Zyra/Nami etc) these days?
also what do you mean there isn't morally defensible benign apathy? Pretty much everyone is apathetic about everything, and its hypocritical of you to take the moral highground. If you aren't actively working to save starving children and such you are also being apathetic.
As far as I can tell you aren't even helping the LGBT community at all. Unless you think crusaiding on people who use the word faggot on the internet is somehow helping stop homophobia.
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Its an offensive slur based on a distinct group of people, whether its used in that context or not is irrelevant, its going to upset somebody just hearing it.
You call someone a cunt and you dont get the same problem.
You call someone a fucktard spunk trumpet and you dont get the same problem.
I dont see much of an issue using the world privately amongst friends but in a public place (a la this forum) i would go against it.
Also the korean guy has nothing to be ashamed of because it was in a private place and some asshole posted pictures of it to be the "cool insider". Make a statement, say it was a private conversation and ur sorry, move on. No issue.
This conversation needs to stop.
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Stop trying to argue about the term not being hate speech. It's no different than idiots using the n word to be cool. There is a large portion in their respective demographics that are deeply offended by it, regardless of context.
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I wouldn't say helping to stop homophobia as much as helping to give League of Legends a respectable standing as a sport rather than being just another video game.
If we want to treat the game as a sport we have to adopt the same standards as other sports, and that includes not letting pro players say things that are seen in mainstream conversation as hate speech.
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On February 23 2014 03:12 Omnishroud wrote:
Its an offensive slur based on a distinct group of people, whether its used in that context or not is irrelevant, its going to upset somebody just hearing it.
You call someone a cunt and you dont get the same problem.
You call someone a fucktard spunk trumpet and you dont get the same problem.
I dont see much of an issue using the world privately amongst friends but in a public place (a la this forum) i would go against it.
Also the korean guy has nothing to be ashamed of because it was in a private place and some asshole posted pictures of it to be the "cool insider". Make a statement, say it was a private conversation and ur sorry, move on. No issue.
This conversation needs to stop.
its an word meaning piece of wood which was adopted when witches and gay people were burned at the stake, so it was adopted by homophobes
and now its adopted by people online who want to use a slur
theres technically nothing wrong with words evolving like that
the word cunt probably offends lots of women but they dont exist on the internets amirite
calling someone retarded might offend the mentally ill as well, but you don't see many people taking issue with that either
"whether its used in that context or not is irrelevant, its going to upset somebody just hearing it."
how is context EVER irrelevant, and how do you know its going to upset someone just hearing it
even if it does lots of language offends lots of people, in the end language is just a tool and probably in 50 years time we'll have evolved past "bad words" as if it could be morally wrong in every context to use a certain sound wave
On February 23 2014 03:13 Gahlo wrote:
Stop trying to argue about the term not being hate speech. It's no different than idiots using the n word to be cool. There is a large portion in their respective demographics that are deeply offended by it, regardless of context.
being offended is a personal choice (unlike your sexuality), and using the words nigger or faggot don't make you racist or homophobic and it's questionable whether if spreads either of those things
although unfortunately it mightn't be completely a personal choice if you're a victim of abuse but my experience has been purely from people who act on BEHALF of such people on the and never those people
also if you think league of legends isn't taken seriously because its player and fanbase use such words, you clearly have never met soccer hooligans
I think if diamondprox calls xpeke a faggot in interview he shouldn't get away with that, but if he calls his alex ich a faggot on his teamspeak for taking his kill and we happened to be listening in that's completely different
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It's a private conversation that someone posted on the net for whatever reason.
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On February 23 2014 03:18 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 03:12 Omnishroud wrote:
Its an offensive slur based on a distinct group of people, whether its used in that context or not is irrelevant, its going to upset somebody just hearing it.
You call someone a cunt and you dont get the same problem.
You call someone a fucktard spunk trumpet and you dont get the same problem.
I dont see much of an issue using the world privately amongst friends but in a public place (a la this forum) i would go against it.
Also the korean guy has nothing to be ashamed of because it was in a private place and some asshole posted pictures of it to be the "cool insider". Make a statement, say it was a private conversation and ur sorry, move on. No issue.
This conversation needs to stop. its an word meaning piece of wood which was adopted when witches and gay people were burned at the stake, so it was adopted by homophobes and now its adopted by people online who want to use a slur theres technically nothing wrong with words evolving like that the word cunt probably offends lots of women but they dont exist on the internets amirite calling someone retarded might offend the mentally ill as well, but you don't see many people taking issue with that either "whether its used in that context or not is irrelevant, its going to upset somebody just hearing it." how is context EVER irrelevant, and how do you know its going to upset someone just hearing it even if it does lots of language offends lots of people, in the end language is just a tool and probably in 50 years time we'll have evolved past "bad words" as if it could be morally wrong in every context to use a certain sound wave Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 03:13 Gahlo wrote:
Stop trying to argue about the term not being hate speech. It's no different than idiots using the n word to be cool. There is a large portion in their respective demographics that are deeply offended by it, regardless of context. being offended is a personal choice (unlike your sexuality), and using the words nigger or faggot don't make you racist or homophobic and it's questionable whether if spreads either of those things also if you think league of legends isn't taken seriously because its player and fanbase use such words, you clearly have never met soccer hooligans I think if diamondprox calls xpeke a faggot in interview he shouldn't get away with that, but if he calls his alex ich a faggot on his teamspeak for taking his kill and we happened to be listening in that's completely different
Honestly it's all about the social contract here. If you stand in the spotlights, you are expected not to offend many people (not that offending people is wrong, but doing it for the sake of being offensive is).
Regardless, if I were a team owner, my players could curse and swear as much as they want, as long as it stays indoors. That kind of stuff getting out means penalties (whether that is less money or some other thing, idc). And it differs from person to person. Some people are very offended by goddamnit, others think fuck or shit goes too far, some think that faggot and cunt are the only "really offensive" words, and then there's a group of people who think anything goes.
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I'm fine if people use words like "nigger" "faggot" "bitch" in private conversations with me. I imagine there are more people like me. I can't believe we are ok with people telling us what we can and what we can't use in private conversations because "morals".
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I once got punched in the face for saying the word fuck in public in Greece. True story.
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Are there any people on EUW with a sub level 30 account that they want to get to 30? I'm a Diamond ADC/support player but I'd like to have another Diamond player to smurf with so that the grind doesn't take as long. My main is Plain Skill, my smurf is The Paperboy.
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This discussion is so toxic.
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On February 23 2014 03:31 ghrur wrote:
This discussion is so toxic.
Need more nepotism
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
intent isnt everything. unless you are completely naive to the derogatory use of a word, it is implicit approval for the culture that accepts the attitude. also consequence or how the word may affect others is also relevant.
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nightblue just completely threw a game by himself and is blaming the comp and picks. I thought he got a lot better but he's still the same exact type of jungler, good ganks/buff control, has no idea what to do after and also makes terrible baron calls. He's also one of those people who was toxic but cleaned up his behavior for stream.
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How did we go from Imp to homophobia?
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On February 23 2014 03:33 oneofthem wrote:
intent isnt everything. unless you are completely naive to the derogatory use of a word, it is implicit approval for the culture that accepts the attitude. also consequence or how the word may affect others is also relevant.
this holds as much evidence as the argument that playing GTA 5 makes kids serial killers
or listening to death metal promotes satanists
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On February 23 2014 03:31 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
Are there any people on EUW with a sub level 30 account that they want to get to 30? I'm a Diamond ADC/support player but I'd like to have another Diamond player to smurf with so that the grind doesn't take as long. My main is Plain Skill, my smurf is The Paperboy.
I'm Plat so i don't know if you want to duo with me, but I got a level 13?15? or something account called Falinno. Send me a PM if you want to play.
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On February 23 2014 03:35 Sufficiency wrote:
How did we go from Imp to homophobia?
Mistranslation tangent.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
not the same argument. one is a causal claim the other is acknowledging the 2nd order effect of getting along with a bad custom. if there is social sanction against certain words regardless of intent it is a clear msg that the prejudice behind the words are also sanctioned
on my phone cant rly argue longform
consequence as in though you meant no offense others might take offense and you are still responsible for this impact regardless of intent.
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EPT
