Ever since Curse failed to qualify for the Season 3 World Championship, rumors about potential roster changes for the team have been swirling around the Internet. Most notably was the rumor that Support player EDward would not be returning to the team for Season 4. While this ended up being true, it turned out to only be the tip of the iceberg. What most fans didn't see coming was a massive roster overhaul that left Voyboy as the only veteran member of the main Curse lineup. The main Curse roster is now composed of:
Solo laner – Voyboy
Jungler – IWillDominate
Solo laner – Pobelter
AD Carry – Aphromoo
Support – Zekent
This team is no more.
As a Curse fan I was shocked by the magnitude of this change. I expected them to find a new Support and possibly bench NyJacky, but the prospect of completely swapping out 4 of the 5 positions never crossed my mind. EDward's departure was expected but still stings. I've been a huge fan ever since he dropped the GoZu Pepper handle (he was known to be BM but cleaned up his act after this point) so I was genuinely excited when he joined Curse. I wish they would have been able to retain him, but EDward seems more interested in returning to play in EU.
Despite being off of the main team, Cop and NyJacky are still part of the Curse organization. They are now part of the new Team LoL Pro. The Curse website states their goal is to qualify for the LCS, but if they fail they will take part in the new Riot sponsored Challenger Circuit. This seems odd as last season organizations were only allowed to have one team in the LCS at a time, but maybe Curse knows something the rest of us don't. This is the part of the change that surprised me the least. I fully expected NyJacky to get benched after an incredibly disappointing Summer Split and while Cop has flashes of excellence his inconsistency has proven to be a liability. I actually do think Cop and EDward were developing some pretty good synergy, but EDward leaving may have been the final nail in Cop's coffin.
More surprising to me was Saintvicious stepping down as a player to assume the role of team coach. While people were quick to call for Saint's head on a stick anytime anything went wrong for Curse, I honestly thought he was going to stay on the roster. While his shot calling was suspect as of late, replacing someone with that much experience is never easy. Although, to be fair, according to a Reddit comment from Saint himself, it seems this change was more him wanting a break from playing than Liquid thinking he needed benched. This is the part of the new roster I'm most disappointed with.
While I've defended Saint in the past, him stepping down isn't inherently a bad thing for the team. My main issue is I'm not convinced IWD is really an upgrade. I've never been impressed by his play (either on Dignitas or Curse Academy) so I'm disappointed Curse went with a known name instead of trying to find new talent. I realize finding new talent isn't easy, but I feel Curse probably didn't really try since they knew they had IWD to fall back on. That said, I'm casually optimistic about the rest of the lineup.
Voyboy staying on the team was a relief. Despite having his ups and downs, he was probably the most solid player on the previous lineup. He's a good player to build a team around, and hopefully his experience in the LCS will be able to guide his new teammates.
The new Bot lane duo of Aphromoo and Zekent is probably the biggest unknown for the team. While I've always enjoyed Zekent as a streamer, I've never been blown by his actual play. Solid for sure, but not top tier. Aphromoo is also a bit of an anomaly at the moment. After his brief stint as CLG's Support, he disappeared from the competitive scene. He has always been a mechanically talented ADC, but he developed a reputation for choking at LANs. Both players have been away from competitive play for a while, but luckily for them they have a lot of time to work on their synergy before the next season of the LCS starts.
And last, but not least, the prodigal son Pobelter returns to Curse. Words cannot describe how excited I am for this pickup. Pobelter has always been recognized as an incredibly talented player, but due to the LCS age restriction he was not able to compete in Season 3. I hoped for a while that Pobelter would eventually replace NyJacky, but I thought this dream was dead when he left Curse Academy. I was both surprised and excited to see he was returning to Curse in the position I wanted to see him in. Expectations are already mounting as people skeptic of the new roster at least recognize him as a good player. The success of new Curse may very well rest on his shoulders
The face of Curse's potential salvation.
Curse is now a much different team than it was in Season 3. Only time will tell whether or not all these changes will be successful in making them more competitive. Curse very well may lose fans over this after such a drastic change. This is a real test as to whether or not fans are fans of the players, or the team (a dynamic that is much different in LoL than it is in traditional sports). That said, I'm nervous, but also incredibly interested to see how the new Curse performs in serious competitive games.
Hopefully Curse will turn it around with this line-up and we should see how they mesh as it goes along.I completely agree with you that this was such a drastic roster change. The inner fanboy in me would go as far as to say that within a month or two they should be on par with or maybe better than the old roster.
Agree with the Aphro and Zekent analyses, they're a couple of my favorite streamers, but I have no idea how they stack up compared to other pros. Zekent played mid as well IIRC, so I have no idea how good he is at support.
This should be a nice topic; who whould be replaced on the NA teams?
I think everyone on curse should be replaced. Honerable mention to voyboy because I think with some better training he could come back, but SV, cop, and Jacky just can't pull their weight.
TSM should replace Regi and TOO. I'm a little weary on Dyrus and Xpecial, because dyrus usually eats all the shit from the enemy team since regi can't win lane, and xpecial is obviously doing well with turtle.
Dig should replace everyone. Not a single player is up to standards.
I have no idea how vulcan even wins games, except that the teams they play against are even worse then they are.
Also I forgot CLG, they should replace everyone except for Link. Doublelift has been playing for so long and is still stupid, and his mechanics aren't unique, but expected from an ad now. Chauster, Bigfat, and Nien are so underwhelming. Nien can only win when he free farms for a million years on champions that scale massively.
A lot of people on Reddit call IWD an upgrade over Saint. The funny thing is when I watched him on Dig I always thought he was a worse version of Saint. I can't deny he has better mechanics though and with time and Saint as coach, maybe IWD will improve in the decision-making and awareness department.
Good write up. Definitely not a fan of IWD, Jatt was the reason RS/Dig crushed the NA scene for the time he was playing, and after he left dig just went on a massive slump. IWD with his amazing champ pool of Shyvana and Shyvana dragged dig down to shitty tier american team. (Not to mention the whole perma ban dealio)
I completely agree with the changes Curse made. While Jacky being benched is shocking, it's not unwarranted. Cop always has been pretty lackluster and I've said it since I first saw him play. Saint stepping down to coach is probably for the best. While the new line-up will suffer from the lack of his knowledge during play, his analysis will become a great asset. EdWard should have never left the EU scene, let alone Gambit.
As for the new Line up, Pobelter coming back can be nothing but good news. He has a wealth of experience at both LANs and online tournaments which will aid the other members of his team. The same can be said about Dom and Zekent. Aphromoo is the player people will criticize most due to really lackluster perfomances contrary to the solo queue stomping that he became so famous for. Many people will forget, but Aphro introduced both Draven and Varus to NA solo queue, and the draven was well before Hosan played it in LCS.
The only issues I see are maintaining Dom's bad mannerisms and having a designated shot caller. The new Curse roster looks extremely solid on paper, but only time will tell.
I'm not sure Pobe is as good as he was a couple of years ago (at one point he and jiji were probably the two best LoL players in the world) but he's still one of the best solos in NA and a massive upgrade for Crs (or to be fair, almost any team). Dom is also a really good player. I really don't have faith in the bot lane, Aphro is no better than Cop IMO and Zekent is going to have to do a great job calling strats because to me, his play isnt there.
On October 12 2013 06:12 Fionn wrote: This is a good feature. We should get fans of other teams to do a piece on their team's shuffle. I'd be up to doing one about Blaze.
If you were only on Skype more, and actually talked to other staff...
On October 12 2013 06:12 Fionn wrote: This is a good feature. We should get fans of other teams to do a piece on their team's shuffle. I'd be up to doing one about Blaze.
If you were only on Skype more, and actually talked to other staff...
On October 12 2013 07:12 GodRcane7 wrote: I hope the throwbelter doesn't come out, I like pobelter as a player but it hurts to watch when he turns into throwbelter
The players that carry the hardest tend to throw the hardest sans Faker.
On October 12 2013 06:12 Fionn wrote: This is a good feature. We should get fans of other teams to do a piece on their team's shuffle. I'd be up to doing one about Blaze.
On October 12 2013 06:12 Fionn wrote: This is a good feature. We should get fans of other teams to do a piece on their team's shuffle. I'd be up to doing one about Blaze.
If you were only on Skype more, and actually talked to other staff...
On October 12 2013 06:12 Fionn wrote: This is a good feature. We should get fans of other teams to do a piece on their team's shuffle. I'd be up to doing one about Blaze.
If you were only on Skype more, and actually talked to other staff...
I usually don't rant, but the amount of unprofessional stuff even in "established" teams is really going to make my head explode.
Did no one talk with him about what kind of hours were expected BEFORE they announced their new lineup? You know have a contract where it says "the team will practice XY hours as a team each day"?
As others have indicated, without Pobelter this team is gonna suck. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they don't even make LCS. Whichever team they pick in December to play against is going to be happy to get Curse because at this point Coast and VES look like tougher opponents than a non-Pobelter Curse.
On October 14 2013 10:21 LaM wrote: Pobelter says on stream that everybody was on board when he joined at first that he would be on 5-6 hours until winter and then 8-9 after that until the season started. But after a few days, some of the players decided they wanted everybody living in the house together and he had to leave. However, Pobe says he's pretty sure that's not the real reason and there's ulterior motives.
Also mentioned this is the 3rd time he's been betrayed by Curse and he is done with them, not a lot of time for him to join an amateur team so he might try out for Dignitas or try and get picked up by somebody as a sub.
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I really hope Pobe finds a solid team either spring or summer split. I think he's done everything right, focusing and finishing his high school studies while maintaining a really high level of play. He's a really chill and talented player, and I'm looking forward to the day when he's done with high school and on a team that will show him some loyalty. I would personally love to see him on Dignitas, scarra and qt both love him and he would have great chemistry with those guys.
On October 14 2013 03:41 JBright wrote: Quick! What's the new analysis?
Time to jump on the ggLA bandwagon for LCS.
other tweets today hint that quas has left ggLA. i haven't been able to confirm with anyone. but is he replacing pobelter? other tweets say he's going to dig
On October 14 2013 03:41 JBright wrote: Quick! What's the new analysis?
Time to jump on the ggLA bandwagon for LCS.
other tweets today hint that quas has left ggLA. i haven't been able to confirm with anyone. but is he replacing pobelter? other tweets say he's going to dig
What the fuck man. http://i.imgur.com/HZgCQd5.png That's obviously good for Crs, but this is such a dick move... The roster lock being so close and all... And the fact that we won't ever see the full strenght ggLA in LCS Fuck Im pissed off
I seriously don't understand. This happened so many times already, they should know by now. Can't they make the players sign contracts or something? Just to make sure they won't, like, leave the team without warning?
Ughh, I hate it when upcoming teams get fleeced by bigger teams who didn't bother themselves to look into talent for themselves. Challenger circuit is like a farm system right now and I seriously dislike it.
Alex Penn @alexpenn 20s Crs drops both Pobelter and Aphromoo in the same day. It is basically tryouts still, not sure why it was announced as a new lineup. #NA
On October 14 2013 16:47 NeoIllusions wrote: Voy Top IWD Jungle Quas Mid Cop ADC Zekent Support
It's voy mid, and quas top. Quas top is definite. I think Cop talks about it in his video, and says voy is a "solo laner now instead of a top laner" lolol. As if top lane isn't a solo lane
While to some degree I like it if a Western teams takes a more cutthroat Asian-style approach, this all seems very messed up. How is it that the community has to sew the pieces together from tweets and random stream conversations, instead of Curse just preparing an announcement and putting it out right away? Is it naive of me to expect more from the Curse management?
On October 15 2013 01:18 onlywonderboy wrote: Dammit, I hate Curse for runing ggLA but I also still like Quas. FUCK I'M SO CONFLICTED. Gonna have to write an update T_T
On October 15 2013 01:18 onlywonderboy wrote: Dammit, I hate Curse for runing ggLA but I also still like Quas. FUCK I'M SO CONFLICTED. Gonna have to write an update T_T
I would wait till lcs started ^^
lol yeah you don't know what might happen to the roster in the next week, much less before LCS.
On October 14 2013 15:37 Anakko wrote: I seriously don't understand. This happened so many times already, they should know by now. Can't they make the players sign contracts or something? Just to make sure they won't, like, leave the team without warning?
I'm not sure what Curse can (and does) pay its players compared to Challenger Circuit teams, but it's unrealistic to expect - even with a contract, that a team manager would be dumb enough to force a player to stay on a team that probably can't pay nearly what Curse is offering.
The real question here is if there is a mechanism in place for ggLA to file a grievance against Curse (assuming they approached quas, and not ggLA management). I doubt LoL esports is that intricate at this point, though.
On October 15 2013 01:18 onlywonderboy wrote: Dammit, I hate Curse for runing ggLA but I also still like Quas. FUCK I'M SO CONFLICTED. Gonna have to write an update T_T
Why are people so mad at this? This is how you get progress in ESPORTS lol
this just goes to show that despite all the empty talk about wanting a promote a robust and competitive NA scene, when push comes to shove, people care more about "personalities" and "friendships" than actually trying to form a winning team. it's a business folks.
Clearly LoL just needs a draft hue. Moving around talent isn't an issue, but the shitty part is ggLA didn't get anything out of Quas leaving. At least the Browns get a first round draft pick for trading Richardson. Quas just got straight poached.
On October 15 2013 02:29 oneofthem wrote: this is not how sports progress. raiding lower tier teams and treating players this way only leads to stagnation and further stratification.
yeah, this is the step that leads to players and organizations having a more acute sense of protection and signing contracts and instating a system and shit
if this never happened no one would've realized the need for a system in place to regulate this kind of stuff
there is also nothing inherently wrong with stratification.
stratification and stagnation goes hand in hand. there's no pressure on top teams within a region to be better, if they can just destroy up and coming teams with moves like these
On October 15 2013 02:46 oneofthem wrote: stratification and stagnation goes hand in hand. there's no pressure on top teams within a region to be better, if they can just destroy up and coming teams with moves like these
they couldve poached c9 like this but they didnt
besides poaching ppl brings good players into the the top flight and helps improve the top tier
I just don't like that they told Pobelter and Aphro they made the team when they were still "trying out" according to Liquid. Voyboy is also apparently pissed he wasn't consulted at all about making changes.
That's terrible management, even if the roster changes make for a better team - you've alienated the face of the team, and established that players can't trust Curse's "front office" so to speak.
On October 15 2013 02:46 oneofthem wrote: stratification and stagnation goes hand in hand. there's no pressure on top teams within a region to be better, if they can just destroy up and coming teams with moves like these
they couldve poached c9 like this but they didnt
besides poaching ppl brings good players into the the top flight and helps improve the top tier
point is, had they poached c9, they would not have progressed the scene like real sports. cleveland browns was a yankees farm team for decades and that did not improve baseball.
On October 15 2013 02:46 oneofthem wrote: stratification and stagnation goes hand in hand. there's no pressure on top teams within a region to be better, if they can just destroy up and coming teams with moves like these
they couldve poached c9 like this but they didnt
besides poaching ppl brings good players into the the top flight and helps improve the top tier
Leads to entrenched teams with no way for new teams to pop up. Need a good balance of player mobility and team mobility.
On October 15 2013 02:46 oneofthem wrote: stratification and stagnation goes hand in hand. there's no pressure on top teams within a region to be better, if they can just destroy up and coming teams with moves like these
they couldve poached c9 like this but they didnt
besides poaching ppl brings good players into the the top flight and helps improve the top tier
point is, had they poached c9, they would not have progressed the scene like real sports. cleveland browns was a yankees farm team for decades and that did not improve baseball.
Your analogy is wonky. The players in question were still in the MLB (also, KC Royals, Yankees farm team - still same league).
Real sports use lesser leagues to improve the main league's player base, at the expense of the skill in the lesser leagues.
The entire purpose of "minor" leagues and other organizations in traditional sports is to identify the best players and filter them to the top.
Esports differs mildly because teams can still move vertically through the leagues with relative ease. Curse is skipping a step and deciding that the Challenger teams are now its minor league system. More evenly distributed $$$ and/or restrictions on player movement are required before this will stop.
It's more the case of the timing of all this. If curse was trialing people than they could have said so to the people involved and done it over a period before the roster lock happened. Instead 2 players are no without a team right before the deadline for this promotion and a team is without their core. Poaching happens but really dick timing honestly and not just to ggLA but more so to aphro and probelter
On October 15 2013 03:10 Numy wrote: It's more the case of the timing of all this. If curse was trialing people than they could have said so to the people involved and done it over a period before the roster lock happened. Instead 2 players are no without a team right before the deadline for this promotion and a team is without their core. Poaching happens but really dick timing honestly and not just to ggLA but more so to aphro and probelter
It's definitely mind-bottling that Curse didn't realize a high school student wasn't going to drop everything and train 24/7 with them. How does that not come up in the very first conversation?
don't have a good keyboard for a longer response but stratification of teams leads to less competitive rewards, and less competition. this would lead to less of an incentive to be better. expressed in the royal-yankees situation, the overall talent base is narrower because players were not as valued back then compared to the more competitive free agency era.
Hubert has always provided whatever his team needs, gotten whoever Liquid tells him to get, and they've never been able to be "the team". Yet Liquid is still the manager after all this time.
Also I don't like the fact that established organizations have literally zero chance to get kicked out of LCS as long as they have the money to poach good players from challenger teams. I would like things to be like in european soccer: if your team fucks up the season real bad, it gets demoted. There is zero reason to allow teams to get 2-3 months off before playing demotion series, allowing them to poach players from the same teams they will face in it. Add to this the fact that the challenger teams have nothing to offer to their players as long as they aren't qualified (except Quantic, but it's not really the norm), and you have a recipe for this kind of disaster.
What LCS is on the way to become is some kind of NBA closed league which doesn't say it's name, and I don't like it.
On October 15 2013 06:10 Anakko wrote: Also I don't like the fact that established organizations have literally zero chance to get kicked out of LCS as long as they have the money to poach good players from challenger teams. I would like things to be like in european soccer: if your team fucks up the season real bad, it gets demoted. There is zero reason to allow teams to get 2-3 months off before playing demotion series, allowing them to poach players from the same teams they will face in it. Add to this the fact that the challenger teams have nothing to offer to their players as long as they aren't qualified (except Quantic, but it's not really the norm), and you have a recipe for this kind of disaster.
What LCS is on the way to become is some kind of NBA closed league which doesn't say it's name, and I don't like it.
Actually it annoys me because i dont think Curse will make it through relegations thanks to these moves. The time it takes to synergize with a team, and in addition the emphasis LoL has on teamwork over individual merit is enough to say that Curse should take more time with what they have rather than be the new CLG
If they were thinking about doing this, why the hell would they make a big deal out of their new roster?
On October 15 2013 06:06 Slusher wrote: Hubert has always provided whatever his team needs, gotten whoever Liquid tells him to get, and they've never been able to be "the team". Yet Liquid is still the manager after all this time.
I agree with your line of thinking. It seems like the entire League scene hasn't yet realized that bad management and/or bad coaching can cause a team to do poorly just as easily as bad players. The fact that players are managing or coaching themselves for many teams exacerbates this.
On October 15 2013 03:10 Numy wrote: It's more the case of the timing of all this. If curse was trialing people than they could have said so to the people involved and done it over a period before the roster lock happened. Instead 2 players are no without a team right before the deadline for this promotion and a team is without their core. Poaching happens but really dick timing honestly and not just to ggLA but more so to aphro and probelter
Spot on. Always had a soft spot for Curse, won't be happening in S4.
On October 15 2013 02:46 oneofthem wrote: stratification and stagnation goes hand in hand. there's no pressure on top teams within a region to be better, if they can just destroy up and coming teams with moves like these
they couldve poached c9 like this but they didnt
besides poaching ppl brings good players into the the top flight and helps improve the top tier
The irony of this statement is hilarious. Only like two people on C9 (Lemonnation/Hai) are original members. Everyone from that team got poached (Nien, WildTurtle, Yazuki).
I don't mind players being poached. The bigger issue for me is the whole Aphro/Pobelter situation as it just shows how far eSports has to grow before it's actually legitimate. Do you think any professional team in any sport would pull what Curse pulled in regards to Aphro/Pobelter?
On October 15 2013 02:46 oneofthem wrote: stratification and stagnation goes hand in hand. there's no pressure on top teams within a region to be better, if they can just destroy up and coming teams with moves like these
they couldve poached c9 like this but they didnt
besides poaching ppl brings good players into the the top flight and helps improve the top tier
The irony of this statement is hilarious. Only like two people on C9 (Lemonnation/Hai) are original members. Everyone from that team got poached (Nien, WildTurtle, Yazuki).
I don't mind players being poached. The bigger issue for me is the whole Aphro/Pobelter situation as it just shows how far eSports has to grow before it's actually legitimate. Do you think any professional team in any sport would pull what Curse pulled in regards to Aphro/Pobelter?
Thats actually Riot's fault for locking rosters in such a way that it includes players dropped from teams. NFL teams drop players right before the season starts, but rosters don't get locked until significantly after that.
On October 15 2013 02:46 oneofthem wrote: stratification and stagnation goes hand in hand. there's no pressure on top teams within a region to be better, if they can just destroy up and coming teams with moves like these
they couldve poached c9 like this but they didnt
besides poaching ppl brings good players into the the top flight and helps improve the top tier
The irony of this statement is hilarious. Only like two people on C9 (Lemonnation/Hai) are original members. Everyone from that team got poached (Nien, WildTurtle, Yazuki).
I don't mind players being poached. The bigger issue for me is the whole Aphro/Pobelter situation as it just shows how far eSports has to grow before it's actually legitimate. Do you think any professional team in any sport would pull what Curse pulled in regards to Aphro/Pobelter?
They did, regularly. This is one reason why most professional team sports now have players unions and the MLBPA is the organization which did away with the Reserve clause. Which basically bound a player to the organization which signed them no matter who terminated the contract. [ I.E. if you played for the Yankee's and they cut you you could not play for any other team ever unless the Yankee's signed off on it]
On October 15 2013 02:46 oneofthem wrote: stratification and stagnation goes hand in hand. there's no pressure on top teams within a region to be better, if they can just destroy up and coming teams with moves like these
they couldve poached c9 like this but they didnt
besides poaching ppl brings good players into the the top flight and helps improve the top tier
The irony of this statement is hilarious. Only like two people on C9 (Lemonnation/Hai) are original members. Everyone from that team got poached (Nien, WildTurtle, Yazuki).
I don't mind players being poached. The bigger issue for me is the whole Aphro/Pobelter situation as it just shows how far eSports has to grow before it's actually legitimate. Do you think any professional team in any sport would pull what Curse pulled in regards to Aphro/Pobelter?
They did, regularly. This is one reason why most professional team sports now have players unions and the MLBPA is the organization which did away with the Reserve clause. Which basically bound a player to the organization which signed them no matter who terminated the contract. [ I.E. if you played for the Yankee's and they cut you you could not play for any other team ever unless the Yankee's signed off on it]
Actually, courts struck down most of the reserve clauses in major American sports. Baseball is just different because of an abomination of a Supreme Court ruling from the 1920s that gave MLB an antitrust exception, and even then, it wasnt the Union, but rather an arbitrator that eventually rid baseball of the reserve clause.
Unions may help workers in a vast amount of low-skilled jobs and environments, but in professional sports they are more protective of the owners who could not engage in the kinds of blatant collusion that they do without the protection of a CBA.
good write up! i'm surprised about this. while i agree that jacky was underperforming i think at this point cop was a sacrafice. i mean he got so much crap and flaming for his playstyle that it started to get ridiculous. ppl would hate on him, just to hate on him... so i guess at some point the preassure just got to much. you could clearly see, that his playstyle was influenced by something else. he started flashing in to fights as an ad... tried to create plays (just think of his varus ults...) even when it was rather harming... so unfortunitely his passive and save playstyle did not seem to work w/ the curse fans... best of luck tho' and saint could not really carry anymore either. while he was a great jungler during spring split (rightfully getting voted all star over oddone), in summer split his playstyle was adapted to by other teams...
EPT
![[image loading]](http://media-titanium.cursecdn.com/attachments/thumbnails/52/704/500/500/1004913_497262243692227_526039271_n.png)
![[image loading]](http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/lol.gamepedia.com/thumb/a/a7/Crsacad_pobelter.JPG/220px-Crsacad_pobelter.JPG)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/coSbk2H.png)
I had some hopes for the new squad but now my dreams are crushed. I don't even know if there is a single team in LCS I care about anymore haha.![[image loading]](http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/5049fdefecad04a361000008/throwing-money.gif)
![[image loading]](http://cdn.meme.li/i/p2tmn.jpg)
