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[Patch 3.10: Yimake Patch] General Discussion - Page 46

Forum Index > LoL General
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No more bad posting
ketchup
Profile Joined August 2010
14521 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-01 07:49:44
August 01 2013 07:47 GMT
#901
On August 01 2013 16:33 Capped wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:05 Scip wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
Honestly, the sad part I feel is that many people in here treated Xildarkz similarly to how this guy is being treated, and the difference between their posting and content is extremely obvious.

people treated Xil bad not because he thought he was good and everyone else sucked, but because he went duo middle lane if someone higher pick picked middle lane too.


I actually got pissed off with his inability to accept he was in the wrong when he first arrived. Then after that the constant snide remarks (that apparently nobody else picked up on) about Dota > LoL which our subforum took, ignored and made into a decent conversation lol.

And then there is the duo mid bullshit, which is pretty much expected of someone portrayed the way he did himself

Either way, i feel like his attitude, not skill is improving day by day on here lol

I also missed the stupidity drama, damn me


In all frankness, part of the reason he was stubborn about his ideas is because people attacked him first. He was probably defensive about getting jumped on by people on this forum. He ignored a lot of the helpful advice, and instead went on to respond to the negativity with his own negativity. To be honest, I'm not sure how many people here would actually keep cool when something like that occurs. When you have 5+ posters being rude to you, I imagine it's a bit difficult to try to respond with a sincere comment.

I think the idea that the first thing a person may see when they try to join our part of TL is someone commenting their namesake matches them. How is that not rude? How is that even a comment that people think is okay to post here? I personally would be very amazed if I could handle such an insult with a level-headed response. What follows after are people just jumping on the bandwagon, and escalates to worst posting from there.


On August 01 2013 16:02 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
Obviously the problem is the overabundance of filthy non-Diamonds in here


Sadly, the more I see this trend occurring here, the more I feel like I'm going to agree with the above( Even if this post was meant as a joke, and I would never be able to post there)
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
August 01 2013 07:48 GMT
#902
On August 01 2013 16:28 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 15:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:14 cLutZ wrote:
RanDom comment of the day number 2: I think supports get punished for the power of wards.

I feel like that's the one thing we actually all agree on xD


The question is: Why? All gold can be turned into wards. Its not like Janna or Lulu or Sona is especially adapt at purchasing them. Its just that they are especially INADAPT (not a real word I Know) at buying other things.

Popular picks right now like Thresh and Nami have kits that do a ton even without items. An AP carry without items isn't really scary, but a Nami bubble is just as powerful with an A.egis as it without.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-01 07:52:47
August 01 2013 07:52 GMT
#903
Phone posting too hard
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-01 07:53:15
August 01 2013 07:52 GMT
#904
Yeah nyx3 doesnt joke, he hates anybody non-diamond. Very elitist young man he is :3

Just realised riot trolled neo again. Hue hue hue Yimake :D
Useless wet fish.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-01 07:56:13
August 01 2013 07:53 GMT
#905
On August 01 2013 16:47 ketchup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:33 Capped wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:05 Scip wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
Honestly, the sad part I feel is that many people in here treated Xildarkz similarly to how this guy is being treated, and the difference between their posting and content is extremely obvious.

people treated Xil bad not because he thought he was good and everyone else sucked, but because he went duo middle lane if someone higher pick picked middle lane too.


I actually got pissed off with his inability to accept he was in the wrong when he first arrived. Then after that the constant snide remarks (that apparently nobody else picked up on) about Dota > LoL which our subforum took, ignored and made into a decent conversation lol.

And then there is the duo mid bullshit, which is pretty much expected of someone portrayed the way he did himself

Either way, i feel like his attitude, not skill is improving day by day on here lol
Not being a dick had nothing to do with Elo.
I also missed the stupidity drama, damn me


In all frankness, part of the reason he was stubborn about his ideas is because people attacked him first. He was probably defensive about getting jumped on by people on this forum. He ignored a lot of the helpful advice, and instead went on to respond to the negativity with his own negativity. To be honest, I'm not sure how many people here would actually keep cool when something like that occurs. When you have 5+ posters being rude to you, I imagine it's a bit difficult to try to respond with a sincere comment.

I think the idea that the first thing a person may see when they try to join our part of TL is someone commenting their namesake matches them. How is that not rude? How is that even a comment that people think is okay to post here? I personally would be very amazed if I could handle such an insult with a level-headed response. What follows after are people just jumping on the bandwagon, and escalates to worst posting from there.


Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:02 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
Obviously the problem is the overabundance of filthy non-Diamonds in here


Sadly, the more I see this trend occurring here, the more I feel like I'm going to agree with the above( Even if this post was meant as a joke, and I would never be able to post there)

Not being a dick had nothing to do with Elo :p
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
August 01 2013 07:54 GMT
#906
On August 01 2013 16:52 onlywonderboy wrote:
Phone posting too hard

Quoting yourself is really cool.
I wanna do it some day
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
August 01 2013 07:54 GMT
#907
On August 01 2013 16:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:28 cLutZ wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:14 cLutZ wrote:
RanDom comment of the day number 2: I think supports get punished for the power of wards.

I feel like that's the one thing we actually all agree on xD


The question is: Why? All gold can be turned into wards. Its not like Janna or Lulu or Sona is especially adapt at purchasing them. Its just that they are especially INADAPT (not a real word I Know) at buying other things.

Popular picks right now like Thresh and Nami have kits that do a ton even without items. An AP carry without items isn't really scary, but a Nami bubble is just as powerful with an A.egis as it without.

I got the impression that it's because vision is so strong, you absolutely need to have a constant stream of wards and counter wards. At the same time, you can't afford to gimp your core members of your team as you need some form of damage, tankiness, control, etc... so your solos and AD carry can't really buy that many wards, much less pinks. This means someone needs to sacrifice their personal develop in order to provide a constant stream of vision/vision denial. That basically means the support will be poor.

I think regardless of how much Riot buffs/nerfs/changes items to try to get supports to buy real items, as long as unlimited wards are a thing, supports at the highest level of play will always be item starved and never have more than boots+sightstone and mayyyybe 1 real item.
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-01 08:05:30
August 01 2013 07:54 GMT
#908
On August 01 2013 16:54 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:52 onlywonderboy wrote:
Phone posting too hard

Quoting yourself is really cool.
I wanna do it some day


EDIT: Wtf scumbag Wonderboy ruins my joke
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-01 07:59:44
August 01 2013 07:58 GMT
#909
On August 01 2013 16:54 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:28 cLutZ wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:14 cLutZ wrote:
RanDom comment of the day number 2: I think supports get punished for the power of wards.

I feel like that's the one thing we actually all agree on xD


The question is: Why? All gold can be turned into wards. Its not like Janna or Lulu or Sona is especially adapt at purchasing them. Its just that they are especially INADAPT (not a real word I Know) at buying other things.

Popular picks right now like Thresh and Nami have kits that do a ton even without items. An AP carry without items isn't really scary, but a Nami bubble is just as powerful with an A.egis as it without.

I got the impression that it's because vision is so strong, you absolutely need to have a constant stream of wards and counter wards. At the same time, you can't afford to gimp your core members of your team as you need some form of damage, tankiness, control, etc... so your solos and AD carry can't really buy that many wards, much less pinks. This means someone needs to sacrifice their personal develop in order to provide a constant stream of vision/vision denial. That basically means the support will be poor.

I think regardless of how much Riot buffs/nerfs/changes items to try to get supports to buy real items, as long as unlimited wards are a thing, supports at the highest level of play will always be item starved and never have more than boots+sightstone and mayyyybe 1 real item.

That's the point we are trying to make. The more vision the better and supports do a lot without items so they might as well be the ones buying all the wards so the roles that need items can focus on them.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
August 01 2013 07:59 GMT
#910
On August 01 2013 16:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:28 cLutZ wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:14 cLutZ wrote:
RanDom comment of the day number 2: I think supports get punished for the power of wards.

I feel like that's the one thing we actually all agree on xD


The question is: Why? All gold can be turned into wards. Its not like Janna or Lulu or Sona is especially adapt at purchasing them. Its just that they are especially INADAPT (not a real word I Know) at buying other things.

Popular picks right now like Thresh and Nami have kits that do a ton even without items. An AP carry without items isn't really scary, but a Nami bubble is just as powerful with an A.egis as it without.


Lots of champs are scary at lvl 6 without items. Its really just a question of how scary, and how competent they are at helping a weak, ranged AD Champion get to 6+.
Freeeeeeedom
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-01 08:02:56
August 01 2013 08:01 GMT
#911
On August 01 2013 16:59 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:28 cLutZ wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:14 cLutZ wrote:
RanDom comment of the day number 2: I think supports get punished for the power of wards.

I feel like that's the one thing we actually all agree on xD


The question is: Why? All gold can be turned into wards. Its not like Janna or Lulu or Sona is especially adapt at purchasing them. Its just that they are especially INADAPT (not a real word I Know) at buying other things.

Popular picks right now like Thresh and Nami have kits that do a ton even without items. An AP carry without items isn't really scary, but a Nami bubble is just as powerful with an A.egis as it without.


Lots of champs are scary at lvl 6 without items. Its really just a question of how scary, and how competent they are at helping a weak, ranged AD Champion get to 6+.

And how relevant they stay as the game progesses without items

Edit: like how support Nid or Lux are pretty bad unless they get fed
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
August 01 2013 08:01 GMT
#912
On August 01 2013 16:03 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 15:52 WaveofShadow wrote:
Guys, obvious troll at this point.
Stop responding and wait for darkness to take hold.

Srry Wave, but the past few pages have been way too peaceful and lighthearted. We needed someone to level our heads again.

That person was Stupidity.

Through all of the trials TL LoL has gone through today, through all of the Ohmwrecker hate, the champion theme discussion, even that really disconcerting nostalgia phase of those last few pages, we were losing our way. We were just wandering the forests of productive, informative, and insightful discussion backed up by solid facts, long paragraphs of reasoning, and even some small reconciliation between people arguing. We were off of our path, and we couldn't see the light. It might have been a good few hours before we decided to collectively hate something.

Not until one man decided to shoulder the hate on his back and bring TL LoL back into it's Sports/Games-Subforum Promised Land. He'll take your hate. He'll take your pain. Because, dammit, Stupidity loves TL LoL, and he'll do whatever it takes to make sure the land he loves stays pristine and pure.

So Thank You, Stupidity, from a typically passive admirer of your tear-enducing heroics for the sake of the thread.

... My posting quality has really gone down the toilet today :|

EDIT: Oh rofl, I finish typing and there's a full page of buffer from that comment. You guys really smelled blood there, lol


How many of us actually read almost all of this thread, skipping the occasional topic that doesn't interest us (for me, pro drama/team switches etc)? It's a fucking ton of content, I'm amazed at how many of us regular posters seem to be keeping up with almost all of it.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
August 01 2013 08:01 GMT
#913
On August 01 2013 16:58 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:54 Ryuu314 wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:28 cLutZ wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:14 cLutZ wrote:
RanDom comment of the day number 2: I think supports get punished for the power of wards.

I feel like that's the one thing we actually all agree on xD


The question is: Why? All gold can be turned into wards. Its not like Janna or Lulu or Sona is especially adapt at purchasing them. Its just that they are especially INADAPT (not a real word I Know) at buying other things.

Popular picks right now like Thresh and Nami have kits that do a ton even without items. An AP carry without items isn't really scary, but a Nami bubble is just as powerful with an A.egis as it without.

I got the impression that it's because vision is so strong, you absolutely need to have a constant stream of wards and counter wards. At the same time, you can't afford to gimp your core members of your team as you need some form of damage, tankiness, control, etc... so your solos and AD carry can't really buy that many wards, much less pinks. This means someone needs to sacrifice their personal develop in order to provide a constant stream of vision/vision denial. That basically means the support will be poor.

I think regardless of how much Riot buffs/nerfs/changes items to try to get supports to buy real items, as long as unlimited wards are a thing, supports at the highest level of play will always be item starved and never have more than boots+sightstone and mayyyybe 1 real item.

That's the point we are trying to make. The more vision the better and supports do a lot without items so they might as well be the ones buying all the wards so the roles that need items can focus on them.

Well, I think it's not so much that they're "inadapt" at buying other items like clutz said. I took that to mean that they don't do well with other items, which I'm not convinced is true. Supports are pretty darn good with items generally (like support Elise or Zyra), it's just that someone needs to be ward bitch.
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
August 01 2013 08:03 GMT
#914
Limit wards per person to 5, 3 on the map + sightstone.

Problem solved
Useless wet fish.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
August 01 2013 08:04 GMT
#915
On August 01 2013 16:54 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:28 cLutZ wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:14 cLutZ wrote:
RanDom comment of the day number 2: I think supports get punished for the power of wards.

I feel like that's the one thing we actually all agree on xD


The question is: Why? All gold can be turned into wards. Its not like Janna or Lulu or Sona is especially adapt at purchasing them. Its just that they are especially INADAPT (not a real word I Know) at buying other things.

Popular picks right now like Thresh and Nami have kits that do a ton even without items. An AP carry without items isn't really scary, but a Nami bubble is just as powerful with an A.egis as it without.

I got the impression that it's because vision is so strong, you absolutely need to have a constant stream of wards and counter wards. At the same time, you can't afford to gimp your core members of your team as you need some form of damage, tankiness, control, etc... so your solos and AD carry can't really buy that many wards, much less pinks. This means someone needs to sacrifice their personal develop in order to provide a constant stream of vision/vision denial. That basically means the support will be poor.

I think regardless of how much Riot buffs/nerfs/changes items to try to get supports to buy real items, as long as unlimited wards are a thing, supports at the highest level of play will always be item starved and never have more than boots+sightstone and mayyyybe 1 real item.

Well. a big issue is that if you limit wards you'll have to limit oracles more and probably limit pinks unless they go the dota route and make pinks true seeing only. The way things are going now, You probably will see either no new supports or more supports on the vein of thresh just significantly stronger than anything prior.
phathom321
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1730 Posts
August 01 2013 08:04 GMT
#916
On August 01 2013 17:01 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:58 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:54 Ryuu314 wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:28 cLutZ wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:14 cLutZ wrote:
RanDom comment of the day number 2: I think supports get punished for the power of wards.

I feel like that's the one thing we actually all agree on xD


The question is: Why? All gold can be turned into wards. Its not like Janna or Lulu or Sona is especially adapt at purchasing them. Its just that they are especially INADAPT (not a real word I Know) at buying other things.

Popular picks right now like Thresh and Nami have kits that do a ton even without items. An AP carry without items isn't really scary, but a Nami bubble is just as powerful with an A.egis as it without.

I got the impression that it's because vision is so strong, you absolutely need to have a constant stream of wards and counter wards. At the same time, you can't afford to gimp your core members of your team as you need some form of damage, tankiness, control, etc... so your solos and AD carry can't really buy that many wards, much less pinks. This means someone needs to sacrifice their personal develop in order to provide a constant stream of vision/vision denial. That basically means the support will be poor.

I think regardless of how much Riot buffs/nerfs/changes items to try to get supports to buy real items, as long as unlimited wards are a thing, supports at the highest level of play will always be item starved and never have more than boots+sightstone and mayyyybe 1 real item.

That's the point we are trying to make. The more vision the better and supports do a lot without items so they might as well be the ones buying all the wards so the roles that need items can focus on them.

Well, I think it's not so much that they're "inadapt" at buying other items like clutz said. I took that to mean that they don't do well with other items, which I'm not convinced is true. Supports are pretty darn good with items generally (like support Elise or Zyra), it's just that someone needs to be ward bitch.

I agree with the ward bitch part, but I think zyra and elise support are kind of oddities as far as supports go, considering they were both designed as a mid/jungle originally. Supports like lulu, sona or thresh really get very little benefit from actual items besides CDR and mana regen
"Dying in the line of duty is heroic, but dying while unemployed is just stupid." -L
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
August 01 2013 08:05 GMT
#917
I really don't think there's a good solution besides limiting wards, it's just a question of how exactly they're going to do it and what other system changes they'll have to make around that.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
August 01 2013 08:07 GMT
#918
On August 01 2013 17:01 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:58 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:54 Ryuu314 wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:28 cLutZ wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:14 cLutZ wrote:
RanDom comment of the day number 2: I think supports get punished for the power of wards.

I feel like that's the one thing we actually all agree on xD


The question is: Why? All gold can be turned into wards. Its not like Janna or Lulu or Sona is especially adapt at purchasing them. Its just that they are especially INADAPT (not a real word I Know) at buying other things.

Popular picks right now like Thresh and Nami have kits that do a ton even without items. An AP carry without items isn't really scary, but a Nami bubble is just as powerful with an A.egis as it without.

I got the impression that it's because vision is so strong, you absolutely need to have a constant stream of wards and counter wards. At the same time, you can't afford to gimp your core members of your team as you need some form of damage, tankiness, control, etc... so your solos and AD carry can't really buy that many wards, much less pinks. This means someone needs to sacrifice their personal develop in order to provide a constant stream of vision/vision denial. That basically means the support will be poor.

I think regardless of how much Riot buffs/nerfs/changes items to try to get supports to buy real items, as long as unlimited wards are a thing, supports at the highest level of play will always be item starved and never have more than boots+sightstone and mayyyybe 1 real item.

That's the point we are trying to make. The more vision the better and supports do a lot without items so they might as well be the ones buying all the wards so the roles that need items can focus on them.

Well, I think it's not so much that they're "inadapt" at buying other items like clutz said. I took that to mean that they don't do well with other items, which I'm not convinced is true. Supports are pretty darn good with items generally (like support Elise or Zyra), it's just that someone needs to be ward bitch.

You're talking about supports that already work well in a solo lane. Of course they are good with items . Yeah someone has to be the ward bitch, might as well be the champ who does a lot without items (which Elise and Zyra also do)
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
August 01 2013 08:07 GMT
#919
On August 01 2013 17:01 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:03 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:52 WaveofShadow wrote:
Guys, obvious troll at this point.
Stop responding and wait for darkness to take hold.

Srry Wave, but the past few pages have been way too peaceful and lighthearted. We needed someone to level our heads again.

That person was Stupidity.

Through all of the trials TL LoL has gone through today, through all of the Ohmwrecker hate, the champion theme discussion, even that really disconcerting nostalgia phase of those last few pages, we were losing our way. We were just wandering the forests of productive, informative, and insightful discussion backed up by solid facts, long paragraphs of reasoning, and even some small reconciliation between people arguing. We were off of our path, and we couldn't see the light. It might have been a good few hours before we decided to collectively hate something.

Not until one man decided to shoulder the hate on his back and bring TL LoL back into it's Sports/Games-Subforum Promised Land. He'll take your hate. He'll take your pain. Because, dammit, Stupidity loves TL LoL, and he'll do whatever it takes to make sure the land he loves stays pristine and pure.

So Thank You, Stupidity, from a typically passive admirer of your tear-enducing heroics for the sake of the thread.

... My posting quality has really gone down the toilet today :|

EDIT: Oh rofl, I finish typing and there's a full page of buffer from that comment. You guys really smelled blood there, lol


How many of us actually read almost all of this thread, skipping the occasional topic that doesn't interest us (for me, pro drama/team switches etc)? It's a fucking ton of content, I'm amazed at how many of us regular posters seem to be keeping up with almost all of it.

I've kept this thread open for hours and just come back to it occasionally in between bouts of my game, usually just to make bad jokes that everyone ignores. I've flexed the shit out of my reading muscles tho. This thread was in overdrive.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-01 08:13:42
August 01 2013 08:09 GMT
#920
On August 01 2013 17:04 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 16:54 Ryuu314 wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:28 cLutZ wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:14 cLutZ wrote:
RanDom comment of the day number 2: I think supports get punished for the power of wards.

I feel like that's the one thing we actually all agree on xD


The question is: Why? All gold can be turned into wards. Its not like Janna or Lulu or Sona is especially adapt at purchasing them. Its just that they are especially INADAPT (not a real word I Know) at buying other things.

Popular picks right now like Thresh and Nami have kits that do a ton even without items. An AP carry without items isn't really scary, but a Nami bubble is just as powerful with an A.egis as it without.

I got the impression that it's because vision is so strong, you absolutely need to have a constant stream of wards and counter wards. At the same time, you can't afford to gimp your core members of your team as you need some form of damage, tankiness, control, etc... so your solos and AD carry can't really buy that many wards, much less pinks. This means someone needs to sacrifice their personal develop in order to provide a constant stream of vision/vision denial. That basically means the support will be poor.

I think regardless of how much Riot buffs/nerfs/changes items to try to get supports to buy real items, as long as unlimited wards are a thing, supports at the highest level of play will always be item starved and never have more than boots+sightstone and mayyyybe 1 real item.

Well. a big issue is that if you limit wards you'll have to limit oracles more and probably limit pinks unless they go the dota route and make pinks true seeing only. The way things are going now, You probably will see either no new supports or more supports on the vein of thresh just significantly stronger than anything prior.

Yea, you can't really limit wards without limiting both greens and pinks or change pinks drastically. I don't think they necessarily have to do anything to oracles outside of reverting the not losing it on death change.

The way it is now isn't terrible. It's just that Riot seems to want all roles to be able to itemize to some extent. The only issue is that it'll never happen as long as wards are unlimited. Heck, even with limited wards supports are still going to be rather item starved, although less so.
On August 01 2013 17:07 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 01 2013 17:01 Ryuu314 wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:58 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:54 Ryuu314 wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 16:28 cLutZ wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
On August 01 2013 15:14 cLutZ wrote:
RanDom comment of the day number 2: I think supports get punished for the power of wards.

I feel like that's the one thing we actually all agree on xD


The question is: Why? All gold can be turned into wards. Its not like Janna or Lulu or Sona is especially adapt at purchasing them. Its just that they are especially INADAPT (not a real word I Know) at buying other things.

Popular picks right now like Thresh and Nami have kits that do a ton even without items. An AP carry without items isn't really scary, but a Nami bubble is just as powerful with an A.egis as it without.

I got the impression that it's because vision is so strong, you absolutely need to have a constant stream of wards and counter wards. At the same time, you can't afford to gimp your core members of your team as you need some form of damage, tankiness, control, etc... so your solos and AD carry can't really buy that many wards, much less pinks. This means someone needs to sacrifice their personal develop in order to provide a constant stream of vision/vision denial. That basically means the support will be poor.

I think regardless of how much Riot buffs/nerfs/changes items to try to get supports to buy real items, as long as unlimited wards are a thing, supports at the highest level of play will always be item starved and never have more than boots+sightstone and mayyyybe 1 real item.

That's the point we are trying to make. The more vision the better and supports do a lot without items so they might as well be the ones buying all the wards so the roles that need items can focus on them.

Well, I think it's not so much that they're "inadapt" at buying other items like clutz said. I took that to mean that they don't do well with other items, which I'm not convinced is true. Supports are pretty darn good with items generally (like support Elise or Zyra), it's just that someone needs to be ward bitch.

You're talking about supports that already work well in a solo lane. Of course they are good with items . Yeah someone has to be the ward bitch, might as well be the champ who does a lot without items (which Elise and Zyra also do)

Well, this probably isn't the greatest example, but supports get pimped out with items in aram/dominion and they actually do a ton outside of providing cc. I mean, theoretically, stuff like bruiser Taric could hit like a truck due to his passive; Soraka's kit honestly seems like it would be a lot stronger if she could afford to buy tanky AP items to really take advantage of her Q and defensive steroids, etc...

It just goes back to what you originally said. The support role needs champs that scale well into late game w/out items, and it just so happens that we only have a limited set of champions that can do that so they're more or less shoehorned into the support role. They do tend to be sub optimal at other roles though.
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