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United States23455 Posts
On August 07 2013 12:59 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 12:58 Fionn wrote:
Again, Dota2 won't overtake LoL until Valve creates some sort of league or has other major titles throughout the year. You can't just have a ton of $5,000~15,000 tournaments and then BAM --- TIME FOR A GORILLIAN DOLLAR TOURNAMENT! Players can't sustain themselves. Valve is working to fix this with more fan to player interaction. i don't think you need a valve league to succeed though. thats just lol experience being projected on a completely different scene.
There doesn't need to be a league, but there needs to be tournaments with high prize pools across the year to turn Dota2 into a stable e-sport. You can't just have The International be more money than every team will make during the rest of the year put together. They're saying they will do more of this, wanting to make players be able to go into Dota2 full-time and not just focus solely on getting to The International, but we'll see.
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You know I watch both, and I like both games, I'd love if they started doing more LANs but right now the online play is so boring and stagnant. the same teams play in different tournaments hours apart it just all feels so meaningless.
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The idea that Riot is discouraging casual players from watching LCS while simultaneously encouraging viewership of hardcore players ranks as one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories I've read in a long time.
Casual players of any game by definition aren't going to follow the game's competitive scene. Following esports takes time, and they're busy doing other things. Taking the time to follow a league like LCS removes a player from the casual playerbase pretty much on its own, turning them into the bracket of player Riot is supposedly targeting the LCS towards? This is disregarding the huge advertisements all over the client directing all players (casual and hardcore) to LCS matches, the fact that Riot is pouring millions of dollars into the league in the first place and probably a thousand other ways they promote LCS is ways I can't think of right now.
It's an absolutely ridiculous notion.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 07 2013 13:07 Slusher wrote:
You know I watch both, and I like both games, I'd love if they started doing more LANs but right now the online play is so boring and stagnant. the same teams play in different tournaments hours apart it just all feels so meaningless.
That's entirely a product of the lack of LANs.
LoL actually had the same thing way back during S1 when CLG and TSM were playing in every Go4LoL/etc. because of the lack of LANs. The problem naturally addressed itself as LANs popped up and the major teams focused on those, causing lesser teams to naturally fill the void in the smaller tournaments.
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On August 07 2013 13:07 Slusher wrote:
You know I watch both, and I like both games, I'd love if they started doing more LANs but right now the online play is so boring and stagnant. the same teams play in different tournaments hours apart it just all feels so meaningless.
Tbh that's how lol season 2 felt. Those weekly solomid tournies with ipl games, and random other games.
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On August 07 2013 13:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 13:07 Slusher wrote:
You know I watch both, and I like both games, I'd love if they started doing more LANs but right now the online play is so boring and stagnant. the same teams play in different tournaments hours apart it just all feels so meaningless. That's entirely a product of the lack of LANs. LoL actually had the same thing way back during S1 when CLG and TSM were playing in every Go4LoL/etc. because of the lack of LANs. The problem naturally addressed itself as LANs popped up and the major teams focused on those, causing lesser teams to naturally fill the void in the smaller tournaments.
I'm not trying to create an argument so much as saying I hope it happens. When I watch Navi play when I get home from work, then I see them on the sidebar playing some other team it takes a lot away for me personally.
also I'd just let Xisor go for the night if I were you guys hes on a roll that can't be stopped best to get out of the way.
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Xisor reminds me of the guy in Whiterun.
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I wonder, with the lack of cost effective support item options these days, if Soulstealer will creep back up as a "standard" support item.
I mean, it's only 1235g. If you're not gonna get a Kindlegem, why not?
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On August 07 2013 13:09 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 13:07 Slusher wrote:
You know I watch both, and I like both games, I'd love if they started doing more LANs but right now the online play is so boring and stagnant. the same teams play in different tournaments hours apart it just all feels so meaningless. Tbh that's how lol season 2 felt. Those weekly solomid tournies with ipl games, and random other games.
I guess mabye, I don't really watch online tournaments if I can help it, but for the most part it's all dota has to offer. at least league had ipl/mlg, albeit not Dota's fault it would be nice if we could have change here.
if MLG picked up dota I'd probly never watch joindota again (sorry tobi) at least BTS has some chinese Lans and I do try to catch those, and SL finals are ok but usually extremely top heavy.
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On August 07 2013 12:58 Fionn wrote:
Again, Dota2 won't overtake LoL until Valve creates some sort of league or has other major titles throughout the year. You can't just have a ton of $5,000~15,000 tournaments and then BAM --- TIME FOR A GORILLIAN DOLLAR TOURNAMENT! Players can't sustain themselves.
I really think people overstate the importance of esports or their players respective to the viewer count/player count. It really has more to do with the game, marketing,and reaching a player base that can give it that many viewers. It doesn't go esports > then player growth, it's the other way around. SC2 proved this when the BW players switched over.
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United States47024 Posts
People just read Xizor's posts too literally.
If you read everything with the assumption that he is being hyperbolic for the sake of internet argument (which is a pretty normal thing to do), and extrapolate back from that, there's something somewhat sensible being said. He's just blowing it up into something ridiculous because it's easier to get people to respond to your posts that way.
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On August 07 2013 13:14 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 13:09 wei2coolman wrote:On August 07 2013 13:07 Slusher wrote:
You know I watch both, and I like both games, I'd love if they started doing more LANs but right now the online play is so boring and stagnant. the same teams play in different tournaments hours apart it just all feels so meaningless. Tbh that's how lol season 2 felt. Those weekly solomid tournies with ipl games, and random other games. I guess mabye, I don't really watch online tournaments if I can help it, but for the most part it's all dota has to offer. at least league had ipl/mlg, albeit not Dota's fault it would be nice if we could have change here. if MLG picked up dota I'd probly never watch joindota again (sorry tobi) at least BTS has some chinese Lans and I do try to catch those, and SL finals are ok but usually extremely top heavy.
People said the same thing about SC2 until the koreans won everything for a year straight. Yes, international tournies are exciting but they aren't cost effective and it really kills the team pool.
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On August 07 2013 13:15 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 12:58 Fionn wrote:
Again, Dota2 won't overtake LoL until Valve creates some sort of league or has other major titles throughout the year. You can't just have a ton of $5,000~15,000 tournaments and then BAM --- TIME FOR A GORILLIAN DOLLAR TOURNAMENT! Players can't sustain themselves. I really think people overstate the importance of esports or their players respective to the viewer count/player count. It really has more to do with the game, marketing,and reaching a player base that can give it that many viewers. It doesn't go esports > then player growth, it's the other way around. SC2 proved this when the BW players switched over.
whats your point neither metric is close for the moment.
On August 07 2013 13:16 Itsmedudeman wrote:
People said the same thing about SC2 until the koreans won everything for a year straight.
?
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United States47024 Posts
On August 07 2013 13:16 Slusher wrote:
whats your point neither metric is close for the moment.
Of course if you're viewing it from the standard of "will DotA 2 beat LoL", because that's a foregone conclusion already.
That's not where any interesting discussion is to be had.
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On August 07 2013 13:16 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 13:15 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 07 2013 12:58 Fionn wrote:
Again, Dota2 won't overtake LoL until Valve creates some sort of league or has other major titles throughout the year. You can't just have a ton of $5,000~15,000 tournaments and then BAM --- TIME FOR A GORILLIAN DOLLAR TOURNAMENT! Players can't sustain themselves. I really think people overstate the importance of esports or their players respective to the viewer count/player count. It really has more to do with the game, marketing,and reaching a player base that can give it that many viewers. It doesn't go esports > then player growth, it's the other way around. SC2 proved this when the BW players switched over. whats your point neither metric is close for the moment.
I'm saying there's no point for Valve to create a league based system like Riot because it's not beneficial to them in the same way. It won't attract new players which is the main thing Dota 2 needs compared to Riot trying to sustain their player pool.
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On August 07 2013 13:16 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 13:15 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 07 2013 12:58 Fionn wrote:
Again, Dota2 won't overtake LoL until Valve creates some sort of league or has other major titles throughout the year. You can't just have a ton of $5,000~15,000 tournaments and then BAM --- TIME FOR A GORILLIAN DOLLAR TOURNAMENT! Players can't sustain themselves. I really think people overstate the importance of esports or their players respective to the viewer count/player count. It really has more to do with the game, marketing,and reaching a player base that can give it that many viewers. It doesn't go esports > then player growth, it's the other way around. SC2 proved this when the BW players switched over. whats your point neither metric is close for the moment. Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 13:16 Itsmedudeman wrote:
People said the same thing about SC2 until the koreans won everything for a year straight. ?
I'm assuming you were talking about having international tournaments like they used to bringing EU, NA, Korea, China together. It's a huge burden on cost, you have to work it into scheduling with all the other tournaments going on, and it's not good when 1 region dominates.
I also doubt this was profitable for IPL and MLG, but it has benefits for Riot and OGN is flourishing with their leagues atm.
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This conversation is really stupid.
Can we actually talk about LoL
Or at the very least pancakes / pokemon / visual novels / fish jokes?
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On August 07 2013 13:16 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 13:14 Slusher wrote:On August 07 2013 13:09 wei2coolman wrote:On August 07 2013 13:07 Slusher wrote:
You know I watch both, and I like both games, I'd love if they started doing more LANs but right now the online play is so boring and stagnant. the same teams play in different tournaments hours apart it just all feels so meaningless. Tbh that's how lol season 2 felt. Those weekly solomid tournies with ipl games, and random other games. I guess mabye, I don't really watch online tournaments if I can help it, but for the most part it's all dota has to offer. at least league had ipl/mlg, albeit not Dota's fault it would be nice if we could have change here. if MLG picked up dota I'd probly never watch joindota again (sorry tobi) at least BTS has some chinese Lans and I do try to catch those, and SL finals are ok but usually extremely top heavy. People said the same thing about SC2 until the koreans won everything for a year straight. Yes, international tournies are exciting but they aren't cost effective and it really kills the team pool.
I mean I can't predict what pros will do but can't a lot of this be drawn to WCS group stage not being on LAN? all the Koreans in EU and NA would have had to move making the choice tougher.
do you still not get interested on championship sunday MLG even when 7/8 are Koreans? maybe not, I do.
and they can reigon lock it too, the main problem here for me is online
On August 07 2013 13:18 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I'm saying there's no point for Valve to create a league based system like Riot because it's not beneficial to them in the same way. It won't attract new players which is the main thing Dota 2 needs compared to Riot trying to sustain their player pool.
do you mean like, actual at home players? don't they have enough already? they might be losing to lol in players but thats because lol is huge, I'd be really surprised if dota didn't meet the numbers to be profitable as a game even if TI4 never happened, so if thats what you are saying we agree.
but if your interest is in the success of it as a competitive game, then yes I think it desperately needs more offline play to be legit over time.
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On August 07 2013 13:15 TheYango wrote:
People just read Xizor's posts too literally.
If you read everything with the assumption that he is being hyperbolic for the sake of internet argument (which is a pretty normal thing to do), and extrapolate back from that, there's something somewhat sensible being said. He's just blowing it up into something ridiculous because it's easier to get people to respond to your posts that way.
nobody else in here does that in every post.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 07 2013 13:20 Ketara wrote:
This conversation is really stupid.
Can we actually talk about LoL
Or at the very least pancakes / pokemon / visual novels / fish jokes?
This is like the closest discussion to LoL we've had in weeks.
On August 07 2013 13:21 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 13:15 TheYango wrote:
People just read Xizor's posts too literally.
If you read everything with the assumption that he is being hyperbolic for the sake of internet argument (which is a pretty normal thing to do), and extrapolate back from that, there's something somewhat sensible being said. He's just blowing it up into something ridiculous because it's easier to get people to respond to your posts that way. nobody else in here does that in every post.
Maybe I should start posting that way then, lolol.
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EPT
