• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:22
CEST 06:22
KST 13:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call4[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 540 Dodge This The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Pros React To: First 'Fastest' Map in ASL History [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Toronto invitational lan 22 august Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Dating: How's your luck? US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Young Players Exit Esports E…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4481 users

[Patch 3.10: Yimake Patch] General Discussion - Page 137

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 135 136 137 138 139 331 Next
No more bad posting
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-06 20:30:41
August 06 2013 20:30 GMT
#2721
As an interesting note; what is wrong with having a support that becomes very effective at level 6 just take double golems (on blue or lane swapped purple) with a machete every time they spawn, giving the ad more levels, the support more levels (and more gold after a few minutes), provided the AD can actually lane solo for 10-20 seconds at a time.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-06 20:34:06
August 06 2013 20:32 GMT
#2722
You'd be surprised at how many AD's die in the 5-10 seconds when the support goes to ward the river.

EDIT: A Yi with Zilean bomb and Zilean ult on him seems pretty potent. Still, this strategy applies to Yi as a melee carry only cuz he's ridiculously strong right now.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
August 06 2013 20:32 GMT
#2723
On August 07 2013 05:27 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 05:23 Slusher wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:21 wei2coolman wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:20 Slusher wrote:
on topic,

ever since New Yi came out I can't help but think of the old Najin Sword strat with Zilian/Jax, only perhaps running Mid Zilian with Jungle Yi, the synergy seems super high right down to Zilian being able transition into a support farm role after the lane phase. I really want to play it but nobody I play with is a Zilian player.

Maybe Janna mid? similar farm allocation like in VES's jungle ez/janna mid strat.


Zilian revive and zilian slow are too core to the strat.

I was thinking like

1:Yi
2:Ashe/Varus
3:Shen/Zac/Renek
4ilian
5:Nami/Zyra

I don't see why Zilian is core to the strat? Revive is nice, but Jannas ability to peel, and crowd control is nothing to scoff at just for a revive.
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 05:26 Requizen wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:25 kainzero wrote:
I saw jungle Yorick in LPL last weekend. Is that a thing now? I thought it was kinda weird.

Yorick should not be a "thing". Not top, not in jungle, nowhere.

I not mad.
But I mad.

I don't know think you have a word in this. TEEMO PLAYER.


the idea is similar to the feed the kha'zix strat people would run back when his W was OP, mass cc + Yi. The importance of Zilian is because he can produce a psudeo Invunerability for Yi, and unlike kayle has other useful abilities with bad farm.
Carrilord has arrived.
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
August 06 2013 20:32 GMT
#2724
Other than zyra and nunu I don't know of many other supports that can do that without drinking 50 pots.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-06 20:34:36
August 06 2013 20:32 GMT
#2725
On August 07 2013 05:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
You'd be surprised at how many AD's die in the 5-10 seconds when the support goes to ward the river.

Well as a solo queue thing it seems bad because you can't trust AD players especially ones with CLG flair, but in organized play it seems definitely do-able.

On August 07 2013 05:32 nafta wrote:
Other than zyra and nunu I don't know of many other supports that can do that without drinking 50 pots.

zyra nunu raka taric thresh elise fiddle kayle lulu all can do it pretty easily with a machete. some aren't used as supports much anymore though.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-06 20:34:24
August 06 2013 20:34 GMT
#2726
On August 07 2013 05:32 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 05:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
You'd be surprised at how many AD's die in the 5-10 seconds when the support goes to ward the river.

Well as a solo queue thing it seems bad because you can't trust AD players especially ones with CLG flair, but in organized play it seems definitely do-able.

Because if you have strong lane control, you can just give the golems to the support with ADC's help, and still not miss a single minion in lane, without having to buy a mashitty.
liftlift > tsm
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
August 06 2013 20:34 GMT
#2727
On August 07 2013 05:20 Slusher wrote:
on topic,

ever since New Yi came out I can't help but think of the old Najin Sword strat with Zilian/Jax, only perhaps running Mid Zilian with Jungle Yi, the synergy seems super high right down to Zilian being able transition into a support farm role after the lane phase. I really want to play it but nobody I play with is a Zilian player.


Here's a really weird question.

Is there any sense to having a mid laner and a jungler who switch roles after level 6?

I am just spitballing crazy ideas here but.

Lets say you have a jungler who has a weakish early game but needs farm and develops into something scary after.

And lets say you have a mid with a strong early game who likes to roam, but can't really do early jungle clears.

So they start out doing the normal thing, then after the 2nd blue buff just switch roles, the jungler starts farming mid and the mid goes roaming and ganking.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
August 06 2013 20:35 GMT
#2728
Pretty sure fiddle can't considering you max fear.Still you need to drink potions which is pretty much the same gold that you get from them.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
August 06 2013 20:35 GMT
#2729
LOL well I didn't expect to get everyone so off-topic. Thanks for all the advice guys, I had a pretty good idea of how I was going to survive but you guys gave me a lot of good ideas. <3
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
August 06 2013 20:35 GMT
#2730
On August 07 2013 05:34 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 05:32 PrinceXizor wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
You'd be surprised at how many AD's die in the 5-10 seconds when the support goes to ward the river.

Well as a solo queue thing it seems bad because you can't trust AD players especially ones with CLG flair, but in organized play it seems definitely do-able.

Because if you have strong lane control, you can just give the golems to the support with ADC's help, and still not miss a single minion in lane, without having to buy a mashitty.

Eh, but the AD doesn't get the levels from this.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-06 20:40:34
August 06 2013 20:36 GMT
#2731
On August 07 2013 05:34 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 05:20 Slusher wrote:
on topic,

ever since New Yi came out I can't help but think of the old Najin Sword strat with Zilian/Jax, only perhaps running Mid Zilian with Jungle Yi, the synergy seems super high right down to Zilian being able transition into a support farm role after the lane phase. I really want to play it but nobody I play with is a Zilian player.


Here's a really weird question.

Is there any sense to having a mid laner and a jungler who switch roles after level 6?

I am just spitballing crazy ideas here but.

Lets say you have a jungler who has a weakish early game but needs farm and develops into something scary after.

And lets say you have a mid with a strong early game who likes to roam, but can't really do early jungle clears.

So they start out doing the normal thing, then after the 2nd blue buff just switch roles, the jungler starts farming mid and the mid goes roaming and ganking.


I mean in a way thats partly the idea, although it more or less is hopeful to translate into zilian roam with ad mid once a sidelane tower falls.

Think of like Flame's role on Blaze.
Carrilord has arrived.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
August 06 2013 20:38 GMT
#2732
On August 07 2013 05:35 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 05:34 wei2coolman wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:32 PrinceXizor wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
You'd be surprised at how many AD's die in the 5-10 seconds when the support goes to ward the river.

Well as a solo queue thing it seems bad because you can't trust AD players especially ones with CLG flair, but in organized play it seems definitely do-able.

Because if you have strong lane control, you can just give the golems to the support with ADC's help, and still not miss a single minion in lane, without having to buy a mashitty.

Eh, but the AD doesn't get the levels from this.

Your point was AD gets levels in lane, while support gets level from double golem.
My point is AD doesn't lose anything by helping support get levels/gold by letting support get last hit on golem. If you have the wave controlled correctly, you should routinely grab double golems, without losing any CS.
liftlift > tsm
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-06 20:40:40
August 06 2013 20:40 GMT
#2733
On August 07 2013 04:41 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 04:36 Ketara wrote:
This might be my favorite off topic conversation of all time.

One of these days Neo is just gonna come in and ban like a dozen people at once.

One of these days, I'm gonna snap and just darkness all of you. -_-

4 pages of pancake talk. Real.

P.S.: Not even Lilly can save you, Req.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
August 06 2013 20:41 GMT
#2734
On August 07 2013 05:38 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 05:35 PrinceXizor wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:34 wei2coolman wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:32 PrinceXizor wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
You'd be surprised at how many AD's die in the 5-10 seconds when the support goes to ward the river.

Well as a solo queue thing it seems bad because you can't trust AD players especially ones with CLG flair, but in organized play it seems definitely do-able.

Because if you have strong lane control, you can just give the golems to the support with ADC's help, and still not miss a single minion in lane, without having to buy a mashitty.

Eh, but the AD doesn't get the levels from this.

Your point was AD gets levels in lane, while support gets level from double golem.
My point is AD doesn't lose anything by helping support get levels/gold by letting support get last hit on golem. If you have the wave controlled correctly, you should routinely grab double golems, without losing any CS.

If the support can do it solo and make up the gold investment by minute 3 and have everything past that be profit for the support and your AD gets more xp from lanes, i don't see why that isn't superior to having the support camp behind XP range in lane and then go help clear golems after every wave.
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
August 06 2013 20:41 GMT
#2735
On August 07 2013 05:40 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 04:41 Requizen wrote:
On August 07 2013 04:36 Ketara wrote:
This might be my favorite off topic conversation of all time.

One of these days Neo is just gonna come in and ban like a dozen people at once.

One of these days, I'm gonna snap and just darkness all of you. -_-

4 pages of pancake talk. Real.

P.S.: Not even Lilly can save you, Req.


Shame on you for being a bad influence on these boards.
Hey! How you doin'?
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 06 2013 20:44 GMT
#2736
On August 07 2013 05:34 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 05:20 Slusher wrote:
on topic,

ever since New Yi came out I can't help but think of the old Najin Sword strat with Zilian/Jax, only perhaps running Mid Zilian with Jungle Yi, the synergy seems super high right down to Zilian being able transition into a support farm role after the lane phase. I really want to play it but nobody I play with is a Zilian player.


Here's a really weird question.

Is there any sense to having a mid laner and a jungler who switch roles after level 6?

I am just spitballing crazy ideas here but.

Lets say you have a jungler who has a weakish early game but needs farm and develops into something scary after.

And lets say you have a mid with a strong early game who likes to roam, but can't really do early jungle clears.

So they start out doing the normal thing, then after the 2nd blue buff just switch roles, the jungler starts farming mid and the mid goes roaming and ganking.

As soon as they get a whiff of what you're doing you'll get crazy counterjungled, though. I mean, I understand the idea of "early game jungle is free levels and gold", but a coordinated invade is more devestating to a jungler than ganks/zoning is to a laner.

On August 07 2013 05:40 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 04:41 Requizen wrote:
On August 07 2013 04:36 Ketara wrote:
This might be my favorite off topic conversation of all time.

One of these days Neo is just gonna come in and ban like a dozen people at once.

One of these days, I'm gonna snap and just darkness all of you. -_-

4 pages of pancake talk. Real.

P.S.: Not even Lilly can save you, Req.

Neo most patient mod NA/EU/KR/BR
It's your boy Guzma!
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
August 06 2013 20:44 GMT
#2737
On August 07 2013 05:40 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 04:41 Requizen wrote:
On August 07 2013 04:36 Ketara wrote:
This might be my favorite off topic conversation of all time.

One of these days Neo is just gonna come in and ban like a dozen people at once.

One of these days, I'm gonna snap and just darkness all of you. -_-

4 pages of pancake talk. Real.

P.S.: Not even Lilly can save you, Req.

Better than two pages of fish puns.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-06 20:44:51
August 06 2013 20:44 GMT
#2738
On August 07 2013 05:41 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 05:38 wei2coolman wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:35 PrinceXizor wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:34 wei2coolman wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:32 PrinceXizor wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
You'd be surprised at how many AD's die in the 5-10 seconds when the support goes to ward the river.

Well as a solo queue thing it seems bad because you can't trust AD players especially ones with CLG flair, but in organized play it seems definitely do-able.

Because if you have strong lane control, you can just give the golems to the support with ADC's help, and still not miss a single minion in lane, without having to buy a mashitty.

Eh, but the AD doesn't get the levels from this.

Your point was AD gets levels in lane, while support gets level from double golem.
My point is AD doesn't lose anything by helping support get levels/gold by letting support get last hit on golem. If you have the wave controlled correctly, you should routinely grab double golems, without losing any CS.

If the support can do it solo and make up the gold investment by minute 3 and have everything past that be profit for the support and your AD gets more xp from lanes, i don't see why that isn't superior to having the support camp behind XP range in lane and then go help clear golems after every wave.


AD isn't getting more EXP from the lane if nothing is dying while the support is gone.

Presuming no interference from the enemy team you can do golems between waves and not miss a single CS.

Splitting the duo up just makes that interference more likely.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
August 06 2013 20:47 GMT
#2739
On August 07 2013 05:44 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 05:41 PrinceXizor wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:38 wei2coolman wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:35 PrinceXizor wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:34 wei2coolman wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:32 PrinceXizor wrote:
On August 07 2013 05:32 ticklishmusic wrote:
You'd be surprised at how many AD's die in the 5-10 seconds when the support goes to ward the river.

Well as a solo queue thing it seems bad because you can't trust AD players especially ones with CLG flair, but in organized play it seems definitely do-able.

Because if you have strong lane control, you can just give the golems to the support with ADC's help, and still not miss a single minion in lane, without having to buy a mashitty.

Eh, but the AD doesn't get the levels from this.

Your point was AD gets levels in lane, while support gets level from double golem.
My point is AD doesn't lose anything by helping support get levels/gold by letting support get last hit on golem. If you have the wave controlled correctly, you should routinely grab double golems, without losing any CS.

If the support can do it solo and make up the gold investment by minute 3 and have everything past that be profit for the support and your AD gets more xp from lanes, i don't see why that isn't superior to having the support camp behind XP range in lane and then go help clear golems after every wave.


AD isn't getting more EXP from the lane if nothing is dying while the support is gone.

Presuming no interference from the enemy team you can do golems between waves and not miss a single CS.

Splitting the duo up just makes that interference more likely.

That doesn't respect reality though. assuming no creeps are going to die in lane is pretty inaccurate.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-06 20:49:36
August 06 2013 20:48 GMT
#2740
But the reality is that if the support leaves the lane to go kill golems while the ADC is farming alongside the enemy duo, the ADC is going to get all inned, at worst die, and at best not get any CS.

I don't know about super high level games but in my games if one member of the duo leaves lane and the other doesn't leave as well, the guy who doesn't leave gets killed.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Prev 1 135 136 137 138 139 331 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 38m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 222
NeuroSwarm 214
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2801
GuemChi 1735
Leta 288
Noble 35
Bale 29
yabsab 21
Shine 15
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
Icarus 7
Dota 2
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 834
Other Games
summit1g10396
WinterStarcraft483
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick771
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 86
• intothetv
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki24
• RayReign 10
• iopq 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21511
• lizZardDota251
League of Legends
• Rush979
• Lourlo926
• Stunt327
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
5h 38m
hero vs ggaemo
Larva vs Mong
The Patches Monday
11h 38m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 5h
Soulkey vs PianO
JyJ vs sSak
GSL
1d 6h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 19h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Mini vs Calm
Queen vs EffOrt
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-23
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.