• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:36
CET 04:36
KST 12:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
[D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Username Change Request - Toxickej Kapr Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
SC4ALL II Brood War Complete Invited Player Lineup Rollback Netcode in Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Sagi.gg Launcher Released Top Players of October 2026 (EBPD Rankings)
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4 [Mixed-Gender CK] Rush+4 vs Best+4 [BSL23] RO24 Group F - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!? Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 30068 users

[Patch 3.05: Balance Update] General Discussion - Page 150

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 148 149 150 151 152 210 Next
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
April 23 2013 04:22 GMT
#2981
On April 23 2013 13:14 Fionn wrote:
We need team icons on this board so I can support my team.

First person to guess who my favorite team is gets a gold star.

A known CLG fan as admin for lol subforum now that's a nightma- oh wait......
liftlift > tsm
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 23 2013 04:23 GMT
#2982
Sivir would be really strong if you could figure out a way to abuse her ult. It might be bad for to quote oneself but:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 08:17 MoonBear wrote:
On April 22 2013 08:09 cLutZ wrote:
On April 22 2013 08:02 MoonBear wrote:
Even if kits are very problematic, number tweaks are always a possible solution. For instance, Blitzcrank was once the #1 target of hate but has now fallen off. Vlad dropped off after S1 from number changes. The same goes for many other champions. It doesn't always have to be kit or mechanic changes.

While Thresh is powerful, his kit is still balance-able by forcing a trade off somewhere else in return for his powerful skills. (Mana costs? Base stats? Move Speed? Many ways to approach this problem.)


Blitz's early laning, if you don't hit at least 50% of your hooks, is so bad that you can lose the game before he becomes ridiculous. That said, he has an abusive lvl 1, plus if you get past laning with him its still super ridiculous. He really is just a shell of a character though in lane, its really unsatisfying to play blitz now. So yea, anyone is "balanceable" if you crush him into subparness. Heck, they did it with Rengar.

I am of the opinion that if there's a number level where a champion is unplayable and a level where a champion is must pick/ban, then there must also be something in the middle that works for everyone. It's just finding that middle ground.


While I agree in theory, I disagree that it is an ideal solution in a large number of cases. That's because LoL forces people to work around the fog of war, a lot. First, there are two levels of this fog because picks/bans a sort of fog of war of its own. Then you have the lvl 1 vision battle before people settle in, and the fog wherein people are settling in.

This is what I would quintessentially call "The Eve Problem". The problem asks: How much weaker does Eve have to be than other champions in order to be balanced? Well the answer is 50 gold (the difference between a green and pick ward) every 3 minutes, for every pathway you normally would have warded + 125 gold for wherever you normally would have vision of your opponent and said vision is important to have (i.e. often a Karthus needed to put a pink lane ward down against an Eve (before her nerfs) if he ever extended to basically a Teemo past the middle of river). When you start to account for all that, you realize that Eve needs to be ridiculously weak to be balanced. So then we have a champ that pretty has all her power invested in one thing (stealth/hook) and if that gets shut down you are kinda worthless.

It makes the effort of balancing greater than the reward for uniqueness.


When you have 1 ability/thing in general that is super strong, it kinda screws you as a character if either of:
A) Its hard to take advantage of; or
B) The other team can shut it down.

And with Sivir's ult, you need multiple autoattack champs to make it worthwhile, and Riot has mysteriously decided that AAing (aka sustained damage) is bad compared to Spells (aka burst).
Freeeeeeedom
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
April 23 2013 04:24 GMT
#2983
On April 23 2013 13:22 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 13:14 Fionn wrote:
We need team icons on this board so I can support my team.

First person to guess who my favorite team is gets a gold star.

A known CLG fan as admin for lol subforum now that's a nightma- oh wait......

DARKNESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
April 23 2013 04:25 GMT
#2984
On April 23 2013 13:18 Fionn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 13:17 Ares[Effort] wrote:
On April 23 2013 13:14 Fionn wrote:
We need team icons on this board so I can support my team.

First person to guess who my favorite team is gets a gold star.

You like Azubu? So CLG


Nope.



TPA TPA TPA
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
April 23 2013 04:26 GMT
#2985
On April 23 2013 13:24 sylverfyre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 13:22 wei2coolman wrote:
On April 23 2013 13:14 Fionn wrote:
We need team icons on this board so I can support my team.

First person to guess who my favorite team is gets a gold star.

A known CLG fan as admin for lol subforum now that's a nightma- oh wait......

DARKNESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Well if his ganks are as bad as his favorite team's jungler, I got nothing to worry about.
liftlift > tsm
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
April 23 2013 04:40 GMT
#2986
not azubu taipei assassins of garena league out of taiwan
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
April 23 2013 04:41 GMT
#2987
Ugh knew it. WE.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
April 23 2013 04:43 GMT
#2988
On April 23 2013 13:22 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 13:14 Fionn wrote:
We need team icons on this board so I can support my team.

First person to guess who my favorite team is gets a gold star.

A known CLG fan as admin for lol subforum now that's a nightma- oh wait......

...
/sits in the brush
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
April 23 2013 04:44 GMT
#2989
not world elite, ig, omg, positive energy, or royal guzaughaou club
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 04:45:07
April 23 2013 04:44 GMT
#2990
On April 23 2013 13:44 Fionn wrote:
not world elite, ig, omg, positive energy, or royal guzaughaou club

Edit you said no NA clearly EG
It's your boy Guzma!
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 04:45:22
April 23 2013 04:44 GMT
#2991
On April 23 2013 13:43 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 13:22 wei2coolman wrote:
On April 23 2013 13:14 Fionn wrote:
We need team icons on this board so I can support my team.

First person to guess who my favorite team is gets a gold star.

A known CLG fan as admin for lol subforum now that's a nightma- oh wait......

...
/sits in the brush

You should see how sad he gets when the rest of the staff all make fun of CLG for being bad. All the hurt feelings.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
April 23 2013 04:46 GMT
#2992
On April 23 2013 13:44 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 13:43 NeoIllusions wrote:
On April 23 2013 13:22 wei2coolman wrote:
On April 23 2013 13:14 Fionn wrote:
We need team icons on this board so I can support my team.

First person to guess who my favorite team is gets a gold star.

A known CLG fan as admin for lol subforum now that's a nightma- oh wait......

...
/sits in the brush

You should see how sad he gets when the rest of the staff all make fun of CLG for being bad. All the hurt feelings.

Inb4 he benches you from the writing team.
liftlift > tsm
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
April 23 2013 04:46 GMT
#2993
no, not eg

my sides
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
April 23 2013 04:47 GMT
#2994
Fionn boring game without hints. zz

"hey guess what number I'm thinking of"
"ok, it's above 50" (not NA team)
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
April 23 2013 04:48 GMT
#2995
OKAY.

HERE'S A HINT.

They have red in their logo.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
April 23 2013 04:49 GMT
#2996
No mention of fnatic lawl

fnatic #1
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
April 23 2013 04:49 GMT
#2997
"ok, it's above 60"

Gambit or AHQ?
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
April 23 2013 04:50 GMT
#2998
Not Gambit.

Not AHQ.

They're Asian.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
April 23 2013 04:51 GMT
#2999
inb4 cj blaze
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
April 23 2013 04:51 GMT
#3000
On April 23 2013 13:51 Cloud9157 wrote:
inb4 cj blaze


Correct. Congratulations.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
Prev 1 148 149 150 151 152 210 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
08:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #21
CranKy Ducklings SOOP33
CranKy Ducklings25
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft235
RuFF_SC2 112
EnDerr 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2881
GuemChi 1786
Artosis 457
ProTech152
Dewaltoss 29
Force[name] 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever780
PGG 418
League of Legends
Doublelift5380
Counter-Strike
taco 617
Other Games
summit1g8706
singsing1647
Coldzera 870
fl0m756
JimRising 569
XaKoH 298
C9.Mang0292
Maynarde119
NeuroSwarm71
ViBE71
Fuzer 30
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV151
Counter-Strike
PGL111
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 14
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 7h
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
IPSL
1d 13h
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
AI Arena Tournament
1d 15h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-04
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.