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United States23745 Posts
On December 17 2012 09:19 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 08:57 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 17 2012 08:47 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 17 2012 08:38 onlywonderboy wrote:Online has always been where they play decent/good. It's at LANs where they look terrible. Online = no competition US only tournaments ? What a feat ! :D Seriously, internationnaly speaking, Fear is a very weak team. TSM used to be a top tier world-class team. I mean this is a strictly NA tournament so I don't see how talking about their accomplishments in the NA scene isn't applicable. Also I don't agree that TSM was ever a top tier world-class team, best NA team sure, but never as good as M5 or the Korean/Chinese teams. Edit: That said their recent performances have been very underwhelming, they are a better team than they are performing. M5 and the Asian teams haven't always been as good as they are currently.
During TSM's streak where they won pretty much all of the NA tournaments (IPL4 through Pax Regionals) I think M5 was still a better team and this was when Blaze 0-5'd them at the MLG Summer Arena.
Interesting to note, M5 would have probably been the EU team at the Summer Arena if they didn't have to forfeit to BLACK (who would eventually go) in the qualifier. That would have made that event WAY more interesting.
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After seeing this game, Nyjacky not doing well but I wanna try urgot again. New items seem so good on him.
New core of manamune, merc treads, BC, and frozen fist sounds like a damn strong build.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 17 2012 09:19 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 08:57 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 17 2012 08:47 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 17 2012 08:38 onlywonderboy wrote:Online has always been where they play decent/good. It's at LANs where they look terrible. Online = no competition US only tournaments ? What a feat ! :D Seriously, internationnaly speaking, Fear is a very weak team. TSM used to be a top tier world-class team. I mean this is a strictly NA tournament so I don't see how talking about their accomplishments in the NA scene isn't applicable. Also I don't agree that TSM was ever a top tier world-class team, best NA team sure, but never as good as M5 or the Korean/Chinese teams. Edit: That said their recent performances have been very underwhelming, they are a better team than they are performing. M5 and the Asian teams haven't always been as good as they are currently.
In other words, those teams improved while TSM stagnated in their own little bubble of NA play.
On December 17 2012 09:43 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 09:19 Gahlo wrote:On December 17 2012 08:57 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 17 2012 08:47 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 17 2012 08:38 onlywonderboy wrote:Online has always been where they play decent/good. It's at LANs where they look terrible. Online = no competition US only tournaments ? What a feat ! :D Seriously, internationnaly speaking, Fear is a very weak team. TSM used to be a top tier world-class team. I mean this is a strictly NA tournament so I don't see how talking about their accomplishments in the NA scene isn't applicable. Also I don't agree that TSM was ever a top tier world-class team, best NA team sure, but never as good as M5 or the Korean/Chinese teams. Edit: That said their recent performances have been very underwhelming, they are a better team than they are performing. M5 and the Asian teams haven't always been as good as they are currently. During TSM's streak where they won pretty much all of the NA tournaments (IPL4 through Pax Regionals) I think M5 was still a better team and this was when Blaze 0-5'd them at the MLG Summer Arena. Interesting to note, M5 would have probably been the EU team at the Summer Arena if they didn't have to forfeit to BLACK (who would eventually go) in the qualifier. That would have made that event WAY more interesting.
You're not thinking far enough back.
TSM was a world class team when M5 wasn't M5 yet and when Azubu was still MiG, because everyone was much worse back then.
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On December 17 2012 09:36 Slusher wrote:
voyboy sunfire first item Elise wtf
Then Rylai's Crystal Scepter. He was performing wonders with Elise's kit with just a Giant's Belt, heh - 9/0/3 at one stage, being part of 12 of his team's 15 kills, and murdering Riven 1v1 with ease.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 17 2012 09:44 triangle wrote:
New core of manamune, merc treads, BC, and frozen fist sounds like a damn strong build.
I think one thing people often forget about with Iceborn is the rule of passive item slows--passive item slows don't stack. A target can only be affected by one of Phage, Rylai's, or Iceborn at any given time.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 17 2012 09:46 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 09:19 Gahlo wrote:On December 17 2012 08:57 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 17 2012 08:47 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 17 2012 08:38 onlywonderboy wrote:Online has always been where they play decent/good. It's at LANs where they look terrible. Online = no competition US only tournaments ? What a feat ! :D Seriously, internationnaly speaking, Fear is a very weak team. TSM used to be a top tier world-class team. I mean this is a strictly NA tournament so I don't see how talking about their accomplishments in the NA scene isn't applicable. Also I don't agree that TSM was ever a top tier world-class team, best NA team sure, but never as good as M5 or the Korean/Chinese teams. Edit: That said their recent performances have been very underwhelming, they are a better team than they are performing. M5 and the Asian teams haven't always been as good as they are currently. In other words, those teams improved while TSM stagnated in their own little bubble of NA play. Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 09:43 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 17 2012 09:19 Gahlo wrote:On December 17 2012 08:57 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 17 2012 08:47 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 17 2012 08:38 onlywonderboy wrote:Online has always been where they play decent/good. It's at LANs where they look terrible. Online = no competition US only tournaments ? What a feat ! :D Seriously, internationnaly speaking, Fear is a very weak team. TSM used to be a top tier world-class team. I mean this is a strictly NA tournament so I don't see how talking about their accomplishments in the NA scene isn't applicable. Also I don't agree that TSM was ever a top tier world-class team, best NA team sure, but never as good as M5 or the Korean/Chinese teams. Edit: That said their recent performances have been very underwhelming, they are a better team than they are performing. M5 and the Asian teams haven't always been as good as they are currently. During TSM's streak where they won pretty much all of the NA tournaments (IPL4 through Pax Regionals) I think M5 was still a better team and this was when Blaze 0-5'd them at the MLG Summer Arena. Interesting to note, M5 would have probably been the EU team at the Summer Arena if they didn't have to forfeit to BLACK (who would eventually go) in the qualifier. That would have made that event WAY more interesting. You're not thinking far enough back. TSM was a world class team when M5 wasn't M5 yet and when Azubu was still MiG, because everyone was much worse back then.
Fair enough, was only really thinking about Season 2 performances. I don't know what their issue is recently, has the rest of the NA scene just improved, or has their skill just eroded? There decision making just looks straight up bad. Maybe they can't handle not being seen as the best NA team and let it affect them.
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I hate to cut TSM a break but I'm pretty sure they (like clg.eu/na) haven't practiced since worlds and don't plan to until ~jan
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Do you mean that it's not such a good item because rylai and/or phage-base items are more common anyway when it comes to slowing items?
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On December 17 2012 09:56 Slusher wrote:
I hate to cut TSM a break but I'm pretty sure they (like clg.eu/na) haven't practiced since worlds and don't plan to until ~jan
They can't really practice anyway, due to all of the moving problems/ddos of the previous month.
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So apparently Black Cleaver procs off Voidling damage now. Neat, though a shame about the nerfs.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 17 2012 09:57 Alaric wrote:
Do you mean that it's not such a good item because rylai and/or phage-base items are more common anyway when it comes to slowing items?
Yes. Rylai's and Phage being relatively prolific limits the practical usefulness of Iceborn's slow because slowing targets already affected by Rylai's or Phage slows rarely accomplishes anything significant.
The item would still be usable if it weren't for its other issues, though (such as over-investing in AP when its primary users generally don't want to buy that much AP).
On December 17 2012 09:56 Slusher wrote:
I hate to cut TSM a break but I'm pretty sure they (like clg.eu/na) haven't practiced since worlds and don't plan to until ~jan
I more or less don't consider that an excuse, but I also don't really care much about TSM's performance at this point.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 17 2012 10:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 09:57 Alaric wrote:
Do you mean that it's not such a good item because rylai and/or phage-base items are more common anyway when it comes to slowing items? Yes. Rylai's and Phage being relatively prolific limits the practical usefulness of Iceborn's slow because slowing targets already affected by Rylai's or Phage slows rarely accomplishes anything significant. The item would still be usable if it weren't for its other issues, though (such as over-investing in AP when its primary users generally don't want to buy that much AP). Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 09:56 Slusher wrote:
I hate to cut TSM a break but I'm pretty sure they (like clg.eu/na) haven't practiced since worlds and don't plan to until ~jan I more or less don't consider that an excuse, but I also don't really care much about TSM's performance at this point.
Have you just given up on the NA scene as a whole or just TSM?
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United States47024 Posts
On December 17 2012 10:09 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 10:05 TheYango wrote:On December 17 2012 09:57 Alaric wrote:
Do you mean that it's not such a good item because rylai and/or phage-base items are more common anyway when it comes to slowing items? Yes. Rylai's and Phage being relatively prolific limits the practical usefulness of Iceborn's slow because slowing targets already affected by Rylai's or Phage slows rarely accomplishes anything significant. The item would still be usable if it weren't for its other issues, though (such as over-investing in AP when its primary users generally don't want to buy that much AP). On December 17 2012 09:56 Slusher wrote:
I hate to cut TSM a break but I'm pretty sure they (like clg.eu/na) haven't practiced since worlds and don't plan to until ~jan I more or less don't consider that an excuse, but I also don't really care much about TSM's performance at this point. Have you just given up on the NA scene as a whole or just TSM?
Just TSM.
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6 minute ace for ex-Quantic, lol. 2 kills for Soraka.
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On December 17 2012 10:01 ManyCookies wrote:
So apparently Black Cleaver procs off Voidling damage now. Neat, though a shame about the nerfs.
AD Malz always been awesome, man. Voidlings tear through everything that he's attacking, including towers or dragon/nashor.
Actually if they scale off his AD when they spawn, the Nashor debuff that halves the target's AD may not even do that much to his damage to it.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On December 17 2012 09:49 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 09:44 triangle wrote:
New core of manamune, merc treads, BC, and frozen fist sounds like a damn strong build. I think one thing people often forget about with Iceborn is the rule of passive item slows--passive item slows don't stack. A target can only be affected by one of Phage, Rylai's, or Iceborn at any given time.
I've been searching for one post where I think Vaporized reccomended building Frozen Maller+Rylai's Scepter on Sejuani, I can't find it anywhere though. It's not in the Sejuani thread. Any ideas where it could be?
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On December 17 2012 08:28 Ryalnos wrote:
Santa Baron hell yes!
*sniff*
I'M SO SUPERFICIAL WHY DO I CARE
*sniff*
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Anyone figured out how to get the Santa Baron icon yet?
While trying to change my icon to the premade 5's one I noticed it sitting in my list of icons, yet I don't remember being particularly nice in solo q (Just didn't rage/flame)
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On December 17 2012 10:14 Alaric wrote:
AD Malz always been awesome, man. Voidlings tear through everything that he's attacking, including towers or dragon/nashor.
Actually if they scale off his AD when they spawn, the Nashor debuff that halves the target's AD may not even do that much to his damage to it.
I know dude, I was part of that initial discussion. Just noting that Black Cleaver is now an actual item I'd like to build on him (builds from brutalizer and has completely relevant stats).
On December 17 2012 08:28 Ryalnos wrote:
Santa Baron hell yes!
Awww yeah, got it too. Let us scoff together at these naughty, non-santa plebs.
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Got that santa baron, haven't played in over a week, and half the time only play bot games for fwotd.
BP most honorable bot slayer. gg
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EPT
