EPTI came home from work 20 minutes ago and missed all the action :-/
[OGN] The Champions Summer 2012 - Page 16
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
I came home from work 20 minutes ago and missed all the action :-/ | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21247 Posts
On July 04 2012 21:47 NeoIllusions wrote: TheYango, real WE hipster. I said WE was the best team in the world after IEM Guanzhou and Wx is the best AD carry in the world and no one believed me ;_; | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 05 2012 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I said WE was the best team in the world after IEM Guanzhou and Wx is the best AD carry in the world and no one believed me ;_; TBH I thought iG when they had Wh1t3zz + MikakoTabe was the stronger team--and they put up the results to back that up. Tabe also definitely could give Weixiao a run for his money for the spot of "best AD carry in the world". It's only after iG essentially fell apart that I considered WE the strongest team in China. EDIT: Also, IIRC at IEM Guangzhou, WE still had Ayaya playing jungle. Ayaya was a pretty shitty jungler--YJTM, while not spectacular, is a MUCH better jungler than Ayaya was. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21247 Posts
On July 05 2012 10:23 TheYango wrote: TBH I thought iG when they had Wh1t3zz + MikakoTabe was the stronger team--and they put up the results to back that up. Tabe also definitely could give Weixiao a run for his money for the spot of "best AD carry in the world". It's only after iG essentially fell apart that I considered WE the strongest team in China. EDIT: Also, IIRC at IEM Guangzhou, WE still had Ayaya playing jungle. Ayaya was a pretty shitty jungler--YJTM, while not spectacular, is a MUCH better jungler than Ayaya was. I think iG was stronger at every lane but bot - but only slightly, but I really was completely taken by Wx's AD play, and I was confident the rest of the lanes had room to improve. League was still relatively new to China at that point, and I felt that WE had a lot of room for improvement and was confident they would meet it. iG had been playing LoL for a comparatively longer time I believe, and that's what I attributed most of their success to. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
On July 05 2012 10:38 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I think iG was stronger at every lane but bot - but only slightly, but I really was completely taken by Wx's AD play, and I was confident the rest of the lanes had room to improve. League was still relatively new to China at that point, and I felt that WE had a lot of room for improvement and was confident they would meet it. iG had been playing LoL for a comparatively longer time I believe, and that's what I attributed most of their success to. Yup. The iG team before they actually secured a sponsor was known as HKEGG and competed semi-professionally in some online events. They beat the TL-A Team in a Go4LoL as well. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 05 2012 10:47 Chiharu Harukaze wrote: Yup. The iG team before they actually secured a sponsor was known as HKEGG and competed semi-professionally in some online events. They beat the TL-A Team in a Go4LoL as well. My only distinct memory from when I was still playing Go4LoLs is getting trashed by Wh1t3zz' Nidalee as Ryze. I also remember watching a Knob HK vs. Locodoco solo mid grudgematch on stream at some point. lol EDIT: I think it's hard to call the HKEGG->iG transition "securing a sponsor" when within a very short time, the only players left from the original HKEGG were Wh1t3zz and MikakoTabe. | ||
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1ntrigue
Australia948 Posts
On July 05 2012 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I said WE was the best team in the world after IEM Guanzhou and Wx is the best AD carry in the world and no one believed me ;_; No, no. I was right there with you saying it at the same time. Also said WE makes for the most exciting games too because their teamfighting is so clean (and got in response, "other Chinese teams don't know how to position so of course their teamfighting looks good"). WE has the best teamfight in the world because Misaya and Weixiao are probably the top AP and AD players in the world. All WE needs is for Caomei to improve or to pick up a better top laner and they'd be godmode. Edit: So did WE live up to the hype? I couldn't catch the games cos I had other arrangements last night. Also, any free VODs? | ||
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1ntrigue
Australia948 Posts
On July 05 2012 10:38 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I think iG was stronger at every lane but bot - but only slightly, but I really was completely taken by Wx's AD play, and I was confident the rest of the lanes had room to improve. League was still relatively new to China at that point, and I felt that WE had a lot of room for improvement and was confident they would meet it. iG had been playing LoL for a comparatively longer time I believe, and that's what I attributed most of their success to. I completely agree. WE really stood out for me at IEM Guangzhou because here was team of people who've played for a couple months absolutely trashing teams like SK and CLG.na (back when they were arguably #1 and #2 in NA/EU). The potential of this team seemed enormous at the time. I know iG were hipster-hyped pre-tournament, but they were made of players who had played for over a year each and TBH, their teamfight seemed weaker and their playstyle far more tame. WE, on the other hand, played so aggressively during the laning phase and managed to get away with it so many times. It was like watching DotA laning/ganking. The WE games in IEM Guangzhou were the most exciting LoL games I'd seen up to that point. That was also the first time I'd seen Weixiao Vayne. Holy shit, I'd never seen Candy Panda being outplayed so hard (this was back when he was arguably the best AD carry in NA/EU and carrying the hell out of SK). I mean, I don't have Yango's knowledge to deeply analyse WE and iG, but from a qualitative spectator's point of view, WE was the team to watch coming out of IEM Guangzhou. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 05 2012 11:07 1ntrigue wrote: Edit: So did WE live up to the hype? I couldn't catch the games cos I had other arrangements last night. Also, any free VODs? http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDIzNjg4MDY4.html Some Youku commentator decided to commentate over the English VOD. Low quality and no Korean commentary, but if you don't have a Premium ticket this is the best you'll get for now. On July 05 2012 11:07 1ntrigue wrote: No, no. I was right there with you saying it at the same time. Also said WE makes for the most exciting games too because their teamfighting is so clean (and got in response, "other Chinese teams don't know how to position so of course their teamfighting looks good"). You can say what you will about WE's potential, but regardless the fact is that iG basically came out slightly ahead up until about February of this year (just about when Wh1t3zz left). iG qualified for both WCG and IEM Kiev over WE (even though they lost to CLG at WCG and couldn't participate in Kiev). After Wh1t3zz left, iG basically fell apart, and WE took center stage. On July 05 2012 11:07 1ntrigue wrote: WE has the best teamfight in the world because Misaya and Weixiao are probably the top AP and AD players in the world. All WE needs is for Caomei to improve or to pick up a better top laner and they'd be godmode. That's the thing--I don't think Wh1t3zz/Tabe are really worse than Misaya/Weixiao. Tabe is hard to judge since he's been off the radar for so long now, but Wh1t3zz definitely showed during the IPL5 qualifiers that he's still capable of world-class AP play. Chinese teams in general have a mindset that is much more suited toward the idea of copy/adapt/refine--take the basic ideas from playing against teams from other parts of the world, adapt them into your own play, and refine them to perfection. This is characteristic of Chinese DotA as well, and also goes a long way to explaining why Chinese mid and bot lane play stand out so much more than their top or jungle play. Jungle as a role is so centered on experience, and there simply aren't any Chinese junglers that have been playing the game as long as Lilballz, TOO, or Saintvicious. Similarly, top lane play is too dynamic and too sensitive to subtle shifts--the pool of top lane champs and how they interact can change significantly from patch to patch whereas mid and bot lane are much more stable--hence being more suited to the Chinese teams' style of learning and adapting their play. As the game stands right now, the most stand-out players in Chinese teams are going to be the AP and AD carries, and the rest is building a supporting cast with the coordination to back those two up. As far as the supporting cast goes, I don't think Caomei, YJTM, and If are especially spectacular. Certainly there are top laners like PDD who are much more successful individually than Caomei is. There are two things that WE has going for it beyond its individual players: lineup stability, and superior coaching/management. Other than Caomei, WE's team is essentially the same one that played at IEM Guangzhou. Caomei, If, and YJTM aren't anything special, but they've played enough with Misaya and Weixiao to get the level of coordination they have now. Compared to WE, iG basically traded/replaced players to death. It's a shame that the lineup iG had after PDD joined them didn't stick around for long. At least based on individual ability, I think the iG lineup of PDD/Wh1t3zz/MikakoTabe/Illusion/Chris had the potential to surpass WE. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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1ntrigue
Australia948 Posts
On July 05 2012 11:43 TheYango wrote: Chinese teams in general have a mindset that is much more suited toward the idea of copy/adapt/refine--take the basic ideas from playing against teams from other parts of the world, adapt them into your own play, and refine them to perfection. This is characteristic of Chinese DotA as well, and also goes a long way to explaining why Chinese mid and bot lane play stand out so much more than their top or jungle play. Jungle as a role is so centered on experience, and there simply aren't any Chinese junglers that have been playing the game as long as Lilballz, TOO, or Saintvicious. Similarly, top lane play is too dynamic and too sensitive to subtle shifts--the pool of top lane champs and how they interact can change significantly from patch to patch whereas mid and bot lane are much more stable--hence being more suited to the Chinese teams' style of learning and adapting their play. As the game stands right now, the most stand-out players in Chinese teams are going to be the AP and AD carries, and the rest is building a supporting cast with the coordination to back those two up. As far as the supporting cast goes, I don't think Caomei, YJTM, and If are especially spectacular. Certainly there are top laners like PDD who are much more successful individually than Caomei is. There are two things that WE has going for it beyond its individual players: lineup stability, and superior coaching/management. Other than Caomei, WE's team is essentially the same one that played at IEM Guangzhou. Caomei, If, and YJTM aren't anything special, but they've played enough with Misaya and Weixiao to get the level of coordination they have now. Compared to WE, iG basically traded/replaced players to death. Yes, I suppose that is so. One thing about the jungler position is that I think it is the position that requires, most of all, good decision-making. Decision-making comes from experience and it comes from intelligence. Lilballz stands out for me, because he seems to be the smartest top level jungler. With his map control and awareness, he's the perfect shotcaller for TPA and it's really evident in the way they play (and outplayed WE with a suffocating amount of map pressure). I think iG and WE were roughly on the same level in the second half of 2011. iG had a better head-to-head in big games, but iirc, they were always really close. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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1ntrigue
Australia948 Posts
On July 05 2012 17:03 TheYango wrote: BTW 1ntrigue, your memory about Weixiao beating Candy Panda must be faulty, because WE and SK actually never faced each other at IEM Guangzhou. They were in different groups, and the semifinals were WE vs EHome and CLG vs SK. Hah, well that's embarrassing. But now you mention it, I remember Hotshot's Nidalee almost one-shotting Nyph's Sona. Considering how close in skill level the top Korean teams are, it's strange how WE is so much ahead of the other Chinese teams though. EHome, CLC and LGD really just don't compare. Does WE have a team house and proper coaching staff while the other teams do not? It's not like the other team lack the money to set it up. | ||
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
Blaze is playing world elite and najin shield so will be interestig to see last seasons winners against WE starts in around 1,5 hours | ||
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Kavas
Australia3421 Posts
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