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While this thread is labeled "DotA2", this is in fact a community thread first. Many of the users in the TL LoL subforum have been playing as friends for over a year now, so it makes logical sense that they would want to play other games together.
Do not compare DotA2 to LoL, you will get banned.
TL LoL veterans know what is expected. Newcomers be warned.
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On September 05 2012 15:11 dnastyx wrote:
I want to learn to play position 2/3 heroes (generally ones that go mid) to help me improve at this shitty game.
Heroes I want to learn:
QoP
Rexxar
Storm Spirit
Puck
Rubick
Am I missing anyone really important (for mid)?
In addition to Rexxar not really going mid and Invoker and Tinker, with competitive gameplay in mind:
Death Prophet is a really nice int carry to learn for push strategies, being able to play her would be really good. Shadow Shaman as well if you want a bit more CC in addition to the push. Templar Assassin would actually be an incredibly valuable tool as a counterpick and as an addition to certain strategies.
If you can play these heroes competitively as a solo mid player for a competitive team you're going to pretty much be immune to bans and are able to pick a hero that suits what your team wants to do, which of course is really good. Of course you can add Windrunner but again I think she's more of a suicidelaner and there's many more uncommon mids that definitely work but I think that these are the ones that are the most important.
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kind of a rant but what I hate about dota2 is there is literally zero hope for the average person to ever get good enough at the game to compete at the highest level of tournaments ie. go competitive
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As of now every single progamer has played the game for at least 4 years, many since the start of the mod in WC3 9-8 years ago. While it's not good for newcomers, it means the proscene is actually legit dedicated people with a lot of experience with the game
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enigma mid is also fairly common, and I really like necrolyte in pubs, just oneshotting someone at 6 and then run around huehuehueing
@nyx: what about bw? :S
BTW, someone should organise some sort of scrim or maybe even 5man mm games just to get people used to actual teamwork. pubs are so bad it's not even funny
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On September 05 2012 21:22 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
kind of a rant but what I hate about dota2 is there is literally zero hope for the average person to ever get good enough at the game to compete at the highest level of tournaments ie. go competitive
This makes no sense, you are complaining that there is a high enough skill ceiling that it takes a long time to get good at the game?
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i'm just saying there is hardly any legitimacy to discussing ways to train and 'get competitive' for dota2. at the highest level it's just not possible.
edit: i am not against people getting better at dota2. the word 'competitive' just irks me with regards to d2
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On September 05 2012 15:11 dnastyx wrote:
I want to learn to play position 2/3 heroes (generally ones that go mid) to help me improve at this shitty game.
Heroes I want to learn:
QoP
Rexxar
Storm Spirit
Puck
Rubick
Am I missing anyone really important (for mid)?
I disagree with pople throwing Invoker/Tinker at you. There's a big difference between "Learning hero to improve in general", "Learning hero cause hero = cool" and "learning hero because that's what's common". Sure, Invoker and Tinker see lots of playtime but they are special cases which will make you struggle more with the hero itself than what's actually going on in fights.
From those you mentioned QoP / Rubick are probably the harder ones (the more I play Rubick the more I find him to be like WTF SO HARD T_T), you could think about adding Tidehunter/Sandking/Nightstalker and Lion/Nyx Assassin. None of those are really common, but the combination of burst/cc in their ganks is rather straightforward at first so you can focus on the game / matchup / your team more than on your hero.
Edit:
On September 05 2012 21:22 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
kind of a rant but what I hate about dota2 is there is literally zero hope for the average person to ever get good enough at the game to compete at the highest level of tournaments ie. go competitive
If that IS your goal, then I think it's still possible but it needs more focus. One role (position 3-5 preferred, those lack strong players more than 1/2), 3-4 heroes. Play those for 6 hours a day till you're at the highest MMR, find people to play with (this is the hard part) and in less than a year you'll be at the top level.
I just don't think its lots of fun to do so. =P
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On September 05 2012 22:13 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
i'm just saying there is hardly any legitimacy to discussing ways to train and 'get competitive' for dota2. at the highest level it's just not possible.
edit: i am not against people getting better at dota2. the word 'competitive' just irks me with regards to d2
I was watching an interview that got linked in /r/dota2 with a LoL pro called Scarra (sp?), and he was saying that you would need to play at least 5000 LoL games before you could ever go Pro.
I think in terms of DotA 2, if you played 5000games then you would easily have enough knowledge to be able to compete, presuming you had the skill to back it up.
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On September 05 2012 21:22 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
kind of a rant but what I hate about dota2 is there is literally zero hope for the average person to ever get good enough at the game to compete at the highest level of tournaments ie. go competitive
Why not?
In technical skill I really don't think I'm far behind the top players apart from lasthitting, nowadays I even can instantly use courier to shop and buy items instantly with shift-queue'd movement ^^
After that it's all experience and gamesense just like... in every other game. I'm sure lasthitting will come eventually, too.
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Shikyo.........
In technical skill I really don't think I'm far behind the top players apart from lasthitting
Can you please do me the favor and not drag the same things that enabled people to not respect some of your opinions in League over to DotA 2?
I would really, really appreciate that.
Overestimating yourself isn't a good basis to get along in an environment that's designed to learn stuff and improve.
Edit: That's a big fat "pretty please", not a "omggtfo". :o
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United States47024 Posts
On September 05 2012 23:51 Dommk wrote:
I think in terms of DotA 2, if you played 5000games then you would easily have enough knowledge to be able to compete, presuming you had the skill to back it up.
I'm not even sure 5000 games gets you to level 70 on the Chinese VS System ladder lol.
As far as "going pro" goes, well it sort of depends what you mean. Obviously there are a lot of mediocre western teams, some of which are built on fresh talent and doing quite well (PotM Bottom for example). But it's really questionable whether any of those teams go anywhere in the long run, and whether it's worth your time and effort to think about whether you can "go pro" for just that level. For the most part it's going to be strictly for your own leisure, so there's very little point in thinking "X hero isn't played this way in competitive games" or "Y hero isn't that strong".
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what is the situation like for getting your preferred position champion in pubs?
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On September 06 2012 00:19 r.Evo wrote:Shikyo......... Show nested quote +In technical skill I really don't think I'm far behind the top players apart from lasthitting Can you please do me the favor and not drag the same things that enabled people to not respect some of your opinions in League over to DotA 2? I would really, really appreciate that. Overestimating yourself isn't a good basis to get along in an environment that's designed to learn stuff and improve. Edit: That's a big fat "pretty please", not a "omggtfo". :o
Well you see the original point was about it being impossible to get good enough and my point was about practice making perfect - Though I definitely did overestimate myself in that statement  However, try to take the underlying message of "be confident in yourself" instead!
Hmm and 5000 games? Let's try to reach that! By the way after I learn DotA2 a bit more I'd love to play with you guys~ Though it'll only be hardcarry or no play so I probably can't play that much.
On September 06 2012 02:12 Slusher wrote:
what is the situation like for getting your preferred position champion in pubs?
I instalock Phantom Assassin in 0.1 seconds every single game regardless of what anyone else picks, naturally.
Thus far I've gotten easy lane with support perhaps half the time, a bit less.
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I've been goofing around with TA mid in some bot games to try and learn how to play it, if I understand from the casting at the international it's actually not common for TA to play the 2, but it seems to make a lot of sense to me.
I have no real interest in 1, 3 I like Broodmother but thats really it, and otherwise I just like 5s like earth shaker, (is sk viable as a 5?)
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United States47024 Posts
On September 06 2012 03:02 Slusher wrote:
I've been goofing around with TA mid in some bot games to try and learn how to play it, if I understand from the casting at the international it's actually not common for TA to play the 2, but it seems to make a lot of sense to me.
She's almost always played 2nd position. o.O
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On September 06 2012 03:02 Slusher wrote:
I've been goofing around with TA mid in some bot games to try and learn how to play it, if I understand from the casting at the international it's actually not common for TA to play the 2, but it seems to make a lot of sense to me.
I have no real interest in 1, 3 I like Broodmother but thats really it, and otherwise I just like 5s like earth shaker, (is sk viable as a 5?)
ta needs levels and putting her long lane is just pointless because she gets shafted hard by dust/sentry. plus, refraction means you never miss a last hit -.-
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AFAIK blink dagger supports really should be 4 instead of 5
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idk mabye I misunderstood but I thought they were expressing that it was weird that ig ran her mid.
I really like playing shadow shaman, venomancer and earth shaker support, but to be honest a lot of it is because it takes the stress of having no idea what half the items are yet away.
on that note any good TA mid builds you could share with me would be appreciated, been going for manta style as first major item since battle fury seems like it's covered by E, but I honestly have no idea what I'm doing any help is appreciated.
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United States47024 Posts
TA items are very flexible. If you want a good cookie-cutter build for starting out, you'd want something like Phase->Blink->BKB->Deso, but honestly there's a lot of intricacies to properly selecting items/item order on TA--more so than most heroes.
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You guys are all getting really caught up in this "position" thing when it really barely matters in pubs. There are certain heroes I wouldn't pick without knowing I was going to go mid (Nyx Assassin, Invoker, Tinker, etc.) but beyond that you should just pick a hero you want to play and go to a lane, especially when you're still learning how to play. That said, picking a carry when your team already has 2 or 3 of them is generally a poor decision.
In answer to some questions asked above:
TA is almost always played mid because of a couple things.
a) She's really strong when she hits level 6 early and trails off late game unless you get some kills early.
b) Being mid lets you really abuse Psi Blades and Refraction to abuse your opponent because there's not much space for them to maneuver.
c) She makes good use of Bottle because you need some mana regen to really harass/gank/kill effectively.
For items, I agree with Yango on a general build. I wouldn't buy Manta on her.
Sand King is generally played as a support, although if I had to put a number on it I would call it a 4. I would argue the difference between 4 and 5 is that 5 is generally buying most of the wards while 4 is trying to farm up some specific item like a Blink Dagger or a BKB. As SK your goal should be to get Arcanes and Blink Dagger as soon as possible.
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EPT
