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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
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On February 29 2012 07:19 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 06:52 Slayer91 wrote:
Why are you guys complaining, when none of the heroes you're calling broken are very popular/sucessful at tournament level? I'm not complaining but i really don't buy all this "is not popular/strong at tournament level". There is some stuff in this game that's broken at low levels and sucks at every different levels, still doesn't change the fact that it breaks the game for a big playerbase and riot does everything to balance that one out (hence why Xin, stealth champs, globals all got nerfed while they weren't that OP at higher Elo).
At low levels you can buy chalice on talon, get some mana regen runes, and spam W's like he just doesn't care.
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On February 29 2012 07:13 arnath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 06:52 Slayer91 wrote:
Why are you guys complaining, when none of the heroes you're calling broken are very popular/sucessful at tournament level? I'm not really complaining that Rumble (or Riven or Vlad or anyone else) is overpowered. I just think that the core mechanics of manaless heroes are stupid. If you can spam your skills indefinitely there's very little decision making involved in laning, you're just casting things because they happen to be off cooldown. I think with no penalty for using your skills haphazardly you create a laning situation that's not fun for you or the opponent.
I disagree with this, I enjoy the diversity of hero types. I think that the core mechanics of only having mana-based heroes is stupid and limiting.
Cooldown-based heroes shift the penalties from long-term sustain (running out of mana) to short-term vulnerable periods (cooldowns). I enjoy the diversity in play styles, and I don't see why you think the latter require little decision-making. If anything, I find the single-resource style (all heroes use mana) bland and less interesting WRT decision-making, since it's always the same equation, just with slightly different constants.
If the cooldown-based heroes are too strong/abusive, that's a balance problem, but there's nothing in the mechanic that makes that necessary -- although it's certainly harder to balance around multiple resource types than it is with just mana-based heroes.
I think what makes Rumble and Riven annoying is that they also have good escaping skills, so they can spam, hurt, you, and get out of range if you don't have a gap closer. If Rumble's shield didn't speed him up, he'd have to be a lot more careful about choosing when to harrass.
Yorick is annoying because he isn't very vulnerable if he misses a W, the ghoul is still there and he still benefits from his passive. Apart from mana costs, he isn't penalized for missing skill shots/timings, and his cooldowns are very low as well.
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What I find strange is that the manless champs are often ones with incredibly short spammy CD's. You'd think they'd get longer ones so you had to use your skills strategically, but no, they get super tiny CDs compared to most mana champs.
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Miss Fortune and Irelia have been dropped down to 4800 IP.
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What a useless change. Why not make them 3k or even lower.
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On February 29 2012 07:58 sob3k wrote:
What I find strange is that the manless champs are often ones with incredibly short spammy CD's. You'd think they'd get longer ones so you had to use your skills strategically, but no, they get super tiny CDs compared to most mana champs.
Garen and Katarina are both well-designed in my opinion(Apart from being UP), however Riven and Rumble to some extent indeed make no sense to me. The energy champs have low cds probably intentionally because if they had like 10s cooldowns per skill the energy component wouldn't really do anything.
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On February 29 2012 08:23 Seuss wrote:
Miss Fortune and Irelia have been dropped down to 4800 IP.
WTF I just bought MF today or last night for 6300 //ragggeee!!!
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On February 29 2012 08:26 whatwhatanut wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 08:23 Seuss wrote:
Miss Fortune and Irelia have been dropped down to 4800 IP. WTF I just bought MF today or last night for 6300 //ragggeee!!!
I recall their policy was a refund for purchases within the past month, at least a few friends had claimed of getting refunds on past purchases.
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On February 29 2012 08:27 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 08:26 whatwhatanut wrote:On February 29 2012 08:23 Seuss wrote:
Miss Fortune and Irelia have been dropped down to 4800 IP. WTF I just bought MF today or last night for 6300 //ragggeee!!! I recall their policy was a refund for purchases within the past month, at least a few friends had claimed of getting refunds on past purchases.
I hope this!
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On February 29 2012 04:22 Shiv. wrote:I still think WuKING and Irelia are really solid picks against her. You might not win the lane, depending on jungler presence, but you can farm just fine and both are much better come late game.
I'm not sure if it was a one time experience, but I felt utterly crushed by the last two NASUS players I laned against as nidalee.
It's like, pre 6 you tickle him all day with autos while he has cloth+5 and his lifesteal and farms Q in peace. Not to mention Teleport. Post 6 youre sitting there, tickling him even moar and he just doesnt give a fuck if he rushes a chainvest.
And IF their jungle shows up while you're happily poking him at his tower his W actually is one of the spells that fuck up a Nidalee hard enough to make her gankable before she gets mercs.
Maybe some Nid player can elaborate why Nasus is an easy matchup for her, but I doubt it is.
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On February 29 2012 08:28 whatwhatanut wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 08:27 Ecael wrote:On February 29 2012 08:26 whatwhatanut wrote:On February 29 2012 08:23 Seuss wrote:
Miss Fortune and Irelia have been dropped down to 4800 IP. WTF I just bought MF today or last night for 6300 //ragggeee!!! I recall their policy was a refund for purchases within the past month, at least a few friends had claimed of getting refunds on past purchases. I hope this!
Well even in the worst case you should be able to request for a return on purchase directly with a customer representative and just re-buy. Riot is relatively lenient about things like this.
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On February 29 2012 08:26 whatwhatanut wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 08:23 Seuss wrote:
Miss Fortune and Irelia have been dropped down to 4800 IP. WTF I just bought MF today or last night for 6300 //ragggeee!!!
LOL.
Tell me the next champ you gonna buy, seems like everytime I read your posts you bought a champ a day ago that just went on sale.
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Since afaik we don't have a nautilus thread, I'm putting this here.
Naut W DPS really wonky and the tooltip actually misrepresents it. It says that it's 150 magic damage over 2 seconds which implies that your AS doesn't matter at all. But that's not true.
How W really works is that it's a 2 tick DoT except that the tick 1 procs on your attack and the tick 2 procs 1 second later. If you attack again before the second tick hits it is canceled and the DoT starts over again at tick 1. So at AS > 1 you will always get tick 1 but never tick 2. At these speeds Naut W functions like Cho's vorpal spikes. Your AS does matter.
But what if your AS is under 1? Because you're not interrupting tick 2 each of your autos will *always* proc 2 ticks. Which means that if your AS is under 1 you've got yourself a free 150 magic damage steroid. If you could just bump yourself to 0.999 AS you could be doing 300 magic damage over 2 seconds instead of the measly 150 the tooltip implies (or the 200 you'd do with no items at all). What's a good DPS/tank item that would do that for you?
Oh yeah, wit's end!
huehuehuehuehuehuehue
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They shouldn´t reduce prices it just makes people rage because: they already bought them and/or the reduction isn´t big enough. Totally.
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On February 29 2012 08:33 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 08:26 whatwhatanut wrote:On February 29 2012 08:23 Seuss wrote:
Miss Fortune and Irelia have been dropped down to 4800 IP. WTF I just bought MF today or last night for 6300 //ragggeee!!! LOL. Tell me the next champ you gonna buy, seems like everytime I read your posts you bought a champ a day ago that just went on sale.
Humm? Pretty sure this is the first time this happened to me. Maybe you confusing me with someone else.
Edit: Looked at my post history...definitely the first time.
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I like the idea of abilities that have a lot of opportunity for distinction between good players and bad players.
Mana is a simple way of doing this (usually) because good players know how to manage it and get the most out of their abilities before going out.
I really liked the initial idea of rumble because theoretically good players will be able to keep him in the danger zone and then strategically overheat to use the extra damage from the passive. The execution of rumble is pretty terrible, though, because the extra damage from overheating is terrible and their is very little strategy to it. You pretty much never want to overheat. I would love to see them buff the damage on junkyard titan and give it a slow and nerf the damage on danger zone abilities. Give the option of strategic overheating.
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On February 29 2012 08:35 phyvo wrote:
Since afaik we don't have a nautilus thread, I'm putting this here.
Naut W DPS really wonky and the tooltip actually misrepresents it. It says that it's 150 magic damage over 2 seconds which implies that your AS doesn't matter at all. But that's not true.
How W really works is that it's a 2 tick DoT except that the tick 1 procs on your attack and the tick 2 procs 1 second later. If you attack again before the second tick hits it is canceled and the DoT starts over again at tick 1. So at AS > 1 you will always get tick 1 but never tick 2. At these speeds Naut W functions like Cho's vorpal spikes. Your AS does matter.
But what if your AS is under 1? Because you're not interrupting tick 2 each of your autos will *always* proc 2 ticks. Which means that if your AS is under 1 you've got yourself a free 150 magic damage steroid. If you could just bump yourself to 0.999 AS you could be doing 300 magic damage over 2 seconds instead of the measly 150 the tooltip implies (or the 200 you'd do with no items at all). What's a good DPS/tank item that would do that for you?
Oh yeah, wit's end!
huehuehuehuehuehuehue
That's extremely interesting. I'm not sure where Wit's End would fit in my normal Nautilus build, but I'll have to try it out sometime.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 29 2012 08:35 phyvo wrote:
But what if your AS is under 1? Because you're not interrupting tick 2 each of your autos will *always* proc 2 ticks. Which means that if your AS is under 1 you've got yourself a free 150 magic damage steroid. If you could just bump yourself to 0.999 AS you could be doing 300 magic damage over 2 seconds instead of the measly 150 the tooltip implies (or the 200 you'd do with no items at all). What's a good DPS/tank item that would do that for you?
Oh yeah, wit's end!
huehuehuehuehuehuehue
To put some numbers to this, Nautilus has a base attack speed of 0.613, and gets +16.66% at level 18 from level-ups. You need a total 62.9% AS to get to 0.999 AS, of which 16.66% comes from level-ups. This means that 1 Recurve Bow item, plus 6% AS from runes/masteries gets you as close to 0.999 AS as possible.
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On February 29 2012 08:43 petered wrote:
I really liked the initial idea of rumble because theoretically good players will be able to keep him in the danger zone and then strategically overheat to use the extra damage from the passive. The execution of rumble is pretty terrible, though, because the extra damage from overheating is terrible and their is very little strategy to it. You pretty much never want to overheat. I would love to see them buff the damage on junkyard titan and give it a slow and nerf the damage on danger zone abilities. Give the option of strategic overheating.
That is a bad idea, overheating shouldn´t be ideal. The tough part of Rumble is juggling his abilities enough to be in the dangerzone but not too much to overheat. The core point of the overheat damage is to make the system not energy in reverse.
Maybe he is a bit too unpunishing for mishandling the system. Making it "harder" would be to make normalzone weaker and overheat last longer.
It´s a unique mechanic though and there isn´t really a point in "burning" it on Rumble alone. A more difficult iteration could be on another champion. It´s not like mana=mana, just look at how different the priorities for bluebuff are.
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On February 29 2012 05:43 Slayer91 wrote:
Why did all the players who played rumble before stopped playing him then?
i like to think it's a moral choice, the same reason that people turn themselves in after murders and don't steal out of the tip jar. some people are morally void and will keep playing rumble just to be bad people - most people prefer champions that lead to a life of purity and friends
On February 29 2012 06:44 bmn wrote:
How does rumble scale better than about any champ in the game?
Yes, flamethrower's full duration damage scales great with AP while you're in the danger zone, but I find that the limited range (compare to other APs) means that you have to build more tanky in return.
I'd be a lot more worried if the enemy has a fed Morde/Cass late-game than if they have a fed Rumble.
rumble's 2 primary damage skills will always do their full duration of damage in a teamfight, even if you focus rumble. he lays down his ult and presses Q, both of those skills will do full damage even if you CC him after. compare that to cassieopeia - she drops her poison and wants to twin fang you, but you chain-stun her down. a vast amount of her damage is lost while she's CC'd. rumble says nah fuck dat trollface.jpg you get close YOU GET BURNED. and it's not even that close, the range on flamethrower is fucking STUPID for a "melee" ability.
rumble's primary 2 damage items give him innate tankiness when combined with his kit. while you're derping away with flamethrower on, you're getting a ton of life back from wota and laying down an AOE slow that makes the battlefield impossible to traverse. throw in your ult which ALREADY slows and add the rylai slow and you basically get singed goop that does 100000 damage per second too (and is free). add in that he's impossible to chase/run from due to his free ghost every 3 seconds and it should become pretty apparent that rumble has more utility in 2 of his skills than a lot of champs have in their whole kit... :\
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EPT
