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On September 18 2011 15:38 KaoReal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 14:20 Ryuu314 wrote:On September 18 2011 07:54 KaoReal wrote:
Nashor's is good on her because she benefits from everything on it. The main reason you get it is to cap your CDR quickly with 9/0/21 and flat CDR blues. This allows you to keep E up all the time, and gives you a really short cooldown on her ultimate. I still think I prefer building Malady and Wit's End on her before Nashor's though. Having E up all the time doesn't feel as useful as crushing faces with maxed E and wits+malady in the early/mid game. wut. nashor's is terrible item. all the stats are good on kayle sure, but the amount of gold you spend on nashors is better spent on another item. especially with the E buff you can keep it up almost 100% with just cdr boots and masteries. Chug blue elixir/any other cdr item and you get 100% uptime. If you want attack speed, guinsoos or wit's end or even malady are all better than nashors. nashor's is, imo, hands down worst item in the game. The problem with "almost" when it comes to E is that it completely disrupts your flow if the fight is longer than 10 seconds. Ionian boots are cool and all, but they mean that you're not getting Merc Treads. I'd suggest another tenacity item to replace it but none of them are really desirable for Kayle, and are quite out of the way to build. I'm not really a fan of trying to keep Elixir of Brilliance on all game either, mostly because I can't guarantee that I will have the correct amount of money to do so on every blue pill, and also because it can run out at pretty awful times. What other CDR item would even work as a substitute? Your options for 10% CDR are Soul Shroud, Kindlegem, Spirit Visage, Brutalizer, Fiendish Codex, and Stinger. The only one of these that is even remotely attractive to Kayle that isn't already part of Nashor's is Brutalizer, and even then, that isn't a finished item, so you'd be wasting 5% if you were to build it into Ghostblade. Nashor's just seems to fit the role best. I wish it wasn't necessary, because it really isn't the greatest item, but having your E feel like a cohesive spell is mandatory, and this feels to me like the best way to do it. It does have the added use of CDR capping your other spells, conveniently, and gives Kayle the extra bit of mana regen that she needs. Also, that bit of attack speed when maxing E first makes a nice DPS boost.
At the end of the 10 seconds one of three things should be true.
1) There is a melee/assassin in your face.
2) There was a melee/assassin in your face, but they died.
3) You got 10 seconds of uninterrupted damage on your enemies.
In case #1 range doesn't matter because you are either running the hell away or have something to beat on in melee. In case #2 you should be hurt enough that you should take the 2-3.6 seconds to consider whether you can meaningfully contribute to the rest of the fight and either reposition to do so or run away. In case #3 you should have just won the team fight, or you're a horrible Kayle that does no damage so no one cares about you and how much tickle uptime you have. Thus shooting for max CDR isn't really worth it.
Mana regen on Kayle is almost completely unnecessary. Your base regen (no masteries, runes, or items) is enough to use E once every creep wave in lane. By level 18 you'll have enough mana regen to E on cooldown and still gain mana over time, meaning you can blow Q+W six or more times without running out of mana. Mana regen is only a problem if you're trying to rely on the extremely mana inefficient W for sustain during laning.
AP's usefulness is also dubious. The AP ratios on W and E are pretty atrocious (.35 and .2 respectively), especially for E considering its AD is 1.0 (+crit) for the direct target and 0.4 for splash. AP isn't worthless, but it's nothing to write home about.
That's why Nashor's is such a bad item. You can spend all that gold on getting three weak stats (and one good one), or you can buy something that will increase your damage such that you only need those 10 seconds to melt faces.
Edit: Even if there were a strong case for Kayle needing CDR and mana regen, that's not a case for Nashor's as much as a case for giving Kayle blue buff.
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On September 18 2011 17:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
i'm gonna add mordekaiser to the list of champs nobody ever runs with support bot that I think are actually insane with support bot
so far, list is veigar morde, add on please.
poppy garen pantheon
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On September 18 2011 17:21 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 17:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
i'm gonna add mordekaiser to the list of champs nobody ever runs with support bot that I think are actually insane with support bot
so far, list is veigar morde, add on please. poppy garen pantheon
Garen Taric used to be the #1 lane comp.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On September 18 2011 17:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
i'm gonna add mordekaiser to the list of champs nobody ever runs with support bot that I think are actually insane with support bot
so far, list is veigar morde, add on please.
Veigar is shit duo lane don't do it. You get kill if the enemy bot is retarded. If you don't you come out of lane below everyone else and die instantly without being able to kill instantly.
Also Veigar is super weak to zoning and 2 people zoning > 1 person zoning.
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On September 18 2011 17:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
i'm gonna add mordekaiser to the list of champs nobody ever runs with support bot that I think are actually insane with support bot
so far, list is veigar morde, add on please. i actually think riven might be very good for it. no mana so she can harass infinitely. max shield...etc it would work like garen but garen is better bc his passive
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On September 18 2011 15:38 KaoReal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 14:20 Ryuu314 wrote:On September 18 2011 07:54 KaoReal wrote:
Nashor's is good on her because she benefits from everything on it. The main reason you get it is to cap your CDR quickly with 9/0/21 and flat CDR blues. This allows you to keep E up all the time, and gives you a really short cooldown on her ultimate. I still think I prefer building Malady and Wit's End on her before Nashor's though. Having E up all the time doesn't feel as useful as crushing faces with maxed E and wits+malady in the early/mid game. wut. nashor's is terrible item. all the stats are good on kayle sure, but the amount of gold you spend on nashors is better spent on another item. especially with the E buff you can keep it up almost 100% with just cdr boots and masteries. Chug blue elixir/any other cdr item and you get 100% uptime. If you want attack speed, guinsoos or wit's end or even malady are all better than nashors. nashor's is, imo, hands down worst item in the game. The problem with "almost" when it comes to E is that it completely disrupts your flow if the fight is longer than 10 seconds. Ionian boots are cool and all, but they mean that you're not getting Merc Treads. I'd suggest another tenacity item to replace it but none of them are really desirable for Kayle, and are quite out of the way to build. I'm not really a fan of trying to keep Elixir of Brilliance on all game either, mostly because I can't guarantee that I will have the correct amount of money to do so on every blue pill, and also because it can run out at pretty awful times. What other CDR item would even work as a substitute? Your options for 10% CDR are Soul Shroud, Kindlegem, Spirit Visage, Brutalizer, Fiendish Codex, and Stinger. The only one of these that is even remotely attractive to Kayle that isn't already part of Nashor's is Brutalizer, and even then, that isn't a finished item, so you'd be wasting 5% if you were to build it into Ghostblade. Nashor's just seems to fit the role best. I wish it wasn't necessary, because it really isn't the greatest item, but having your E feel like a cohesive spell is mandatory, and this feels to me like the best way to do it. It does have the added use of CDR capping your other spells, conveniently, and gives Kayle the extra bit of mana regen that she needs. Also, that bit of attack speed when maxing E first makes a nice DPS boost.
I'm gonna further echo what Seuss said.
In all honestly the <1 second downtime of E really shouldn't make or break your kayle play. Also, Brutalizer is a great item to get enough cdr to reach the breakpoint for 100% uptime for E. Sure, Ghostblade probably isn't that a great item on Kayle, but plenty of champs build just Bruta and never complete it into Ghostblade (ie. Garen, Panth). After the change to Kayle's Q and the W nerfs, building AD on Kayle is not a bad idea at all. She currently scales with 1.0 bonus AD on her Q, 0.40 total AD on her E. She has some AP ratios on her heal and the bonus magic damage on her E, but the ratios for those scales are terrible.
Also, I find that I've never had mana regen issues with Kayle unless I'm spamming my heal, which is a pretty bad idea after the heal nerfs. If your really having problems with mana regen, just get mana regen runes.
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If you want cdr and attackspeed buy a Stinger and leave it as a Stinger imo. That item is seriously good (90 gold more than a Recurve for +10% cdr and a more convenient purchase since you can buy it in parts). The extra gold you're paying to go from Stinger -> Nashor's is probably not worth it.
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Haven't seen a single mordekaiser yet... Wow.
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On September 18 2011 19:13 RogerX wrote:
Haven't seen a single mordekaiser yet... Wow.
I've seen like three- first two got completely and utterly owned about as badly as he used to face roll. Third did pretty well, but it was against one of the crappy teams I've been on lately.
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Mordes shield actually goes down sometimes during laning, which the baddies can't stand. I've seen a few, and he seems to be significantly weaker now. Too early to tell if it's enough or if it's too much, but you can definately get some damage through his shield now.
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Talon bottom with a support is about to completely destroy the "every team needs a dps" meta
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Server down till 9am est =(
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On September 18 2011 17:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
i'm gonna add mordekaiser to the list of champs nobody ever runs with support bot that I think are actually insane with support bot
so far, list is veigar morde, add on please.
Cryo is pretty stompy bot. Especially with a taric to set up her stun.
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On September 18 2011 21:04 Rainmaker5 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 17:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
i'm gonna add mordekaiser to the list of champs nobody ever runs with support bot that I think are actually insane with support bot
so far, list is veigar morde, add on please. Cryo is pretty stompy bot. Especially with a taric to set up her stun.
Taric/bird terrifying lane. Taric + anyone with a stun and a high-damage combo is scary.
Ezmode stun -> all the time in the world to set up combo -> another stun -> several million damage
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Why ranked still disabled bmbmbmbmbm
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On September 18 2011 19:13 RogerX wrote:
Haven't seen a single mordekaiser yet... Wow.
On my 8 tries at a ranked game since patch, I think there was only one where nobody requested that I ban morde (which I didn't, was GP/Amumu generally).
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I just installed LoL on a different machine, and went into a coop to fix all the options etc while grabbing a first win.
Got 1600+ ping CONSTANTLY. That's too much, even for coop. Tried to relog, now I get "server is busy" after I enter my name and password all the time. On the machine I used before, I can't log on either right now.
Can't log on EU West either.
Managed to get back in after a system restart, got ok-ish ping for a while, then it slowly climbed back up to 1600 and at the very end it was down to ~300 again.
After the game I can't connect to chat.
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England2669 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:15 Attakijing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 17:04 UniversalSnip wrote:
i'm gonna add mordekaiser to the list of champs nobody ever runs with support bot that I think are actually insane with support bot
so far, list is veigar morde, add on please. i actually think riven might be very good for it. no mana so she can harass infinitely. max shield...etc it would work like garen but garen is better bc his passive
Everytime I've played with friends and on of the randoms has picked Riven we have forced her onto a support lane with Karma.
She still sucks, but Karma can forcibly carry her through the lane.
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On September 18 2011 19:13 RogerX wrote:
Haven't seen a single mordekaiser yet... Wow.
Morde had a lot of drawbacks, but they were compensated by him having a very strong laning phase, allowing him to gain a farm advantage.
However, he remained pretty weak at levels 1 to 6.
Right now, he gets outlaned by pretty much everyone that has decent early harass.
It's like if they took Vlad when he was fotm, but halved the healing on his early-game Q. That's the most botch way to fix a problematic hero ever.
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EPT
