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On May 24 2011 09:54 billy5000 wrote:
How would you react to this situation?
Early game: I'm laning against shen (or any champion with teleport) at top. Other team does dragon, and we are fully aware of what's happening. Being extremely cautious, my laning opponent decides to teleport to dragon.
I thought about pushing hard at top, maybe even destroy the turret. But that would mean that I wouldn't be able to farm consistently unless I buy wards, which wouldn't significantly prevent ganks when I'm well ahead of the river.
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Imo its a very easy call, but let's play through situations and outcomes.
a) You keep lasthitting. They get dragon and your team nothing.
b) You run towards dragon. They get dragon and your team gets nothing.
c) You run around screaming DEMACIAAAAAAAAAAAAA, their team surrenders.
d) You push hard and get their turret. Their team gets dragon, you get turret.
Top turret vs dragon is a VERY common trade, from what I know so far the team getting the dragon is slightly ahead in that trade but I'm sure someone else can elaborate more on that and which teamcomps like which trade more.
But yeah, in that spot, easy call: Push turret. Now.
Edit: Forgot
e) Shen ults to dragon, they kill it 5n4, TPs back to top. You just got owned by a global ult.
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On May 24 2011 09:13 57 Corvette wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 08:59 Slayer91 wrote:On May 24 2011 07:39 57 Corvette wrote:
I've been using a guide off Solomid for Xin, starts off cloth + 5hp then goes wriggles, ghostblade, mercs, BC.
So far I have been curbstomping everyone (I'm at level 20 summoner level, no one follows guides or anything lol), and I am seriously considering buying him before he goes not-free.
Also, why do we call Jarvan "Jarman" sometimes? That's kinda squishy. The better players get the more tanky you tend to have to build on melee, just be warned. Hybrid stuff like frozen mallet and wits end are great as well. Yeah, it is pretty squishy. The last 2 items are usually armour items, Thornmail for AD opponents, FoN otherwise and Randuins round out the build. For the first majority of the game you are a glass cannon, but if you can make it to the defence items, you should have already won it since you carried your team.
TBH I don't understand all the BCs I've been seeing on Xin. Is it really better than the Ghostblade/SotD combo or the OP Triforce?
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If top turret is down and you are brave, you can still farm top. It just means 2-4 wards instead of just 1. If your team can control their blue/red jungle (whichever is topside), not only can you safely farm top lane, but you can safely farm their jungle and force baron fights.
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On May 24 2011 10:16 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 09:54 billy5000 wrote:
How would you react to this situation?
Early game: I'm laning against shen (or any champion with teleport) at top. Other team does dragon, and we are fully aware of what's happening. Being extremely cautious, my laning opponent decides to teleport to dragon.
I thought about pushing hard at top, maybe even destroy the turret. But that would mean that I wouldn't be able to farm consistently unless I buy wards, which wouldn't significantly prevent ganks when I'm well ahead of the river.
:\ Imo its a very easy call, but let's play through situations and outcomes. a) You keep lasthitting. They get dragon and your team nothing. b) You run towards dragon. They get dragon and your team gets nothing. c) You run around screaming DEMACIAAAAAAAAAAAAA, their team surrenders. d) You push hard and get their turret. Their team gets dragon, you get turret. Top turret vs dragon is a VERY common trade, from what I know so far the team getting the dragon is slightly ahead in that trade but I'm sure someone else can elaborate more on that and which teamcomps like which trade more. But yeah, in that spot, easy call: Push turret. Now. Edit: Forgot e) Shen ults to dragon, they kill it 5n4, TPs back to top. You just got owned by a global ult.
Goldwise the team that dragons comes up ahead. In terms of exp, if all 5 of them are there they come ahead too, otherwise turret either breaks even or is better. At the same time, the game is decided by # of turrets, not # of dragons (although it helps you get more turrets). Additionally, if you take down top turret, that effectively cuts down on the amount of "safe" farming area the other team has. Not only that, but your team can continue to cs while they take down dragon. At early levels, dragon takes a while to kill, meaning in the 30sec-1minute they're at dragon, your team gets that much time to basically free farm and catch up/get ahead in cs.
Pushing hard for top turret is almost always a worthwhile trade, assuming you can take the turret down.
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On May 24 2011 11:05 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 10:16 r.Evo wrote:On May 24 2011 09:54 billy5000 wrote:
How would you react to this situation?
Early game: I'm laning against shen (or any champion with teleport) at top. Other team does dragon, and we are fully aware of what's happening. Being extremely cautious, my laning opponent decides to teleport to dragon.
I thought about pushing hard at top, maybe even destroy the turret. But that would mean that I wouldn't be able to farm consistently unless I buy wards, which wouldn't significantly prevent ganks when I'm well ahead of the river.
:\ Imo its a very easy call, but let's play through situations and outcomes. a) You keep lasthitting. They get dragon and your team nothing. b) You run towards dragon. They get dragon and your team gets nothing. c) You run around screaming DEMACIAAAAAAAAAAAAA, their team surrenders. d) You push hard and get their turret. Their team gets dragon, you get turret. Top turret vs dragon is a VERY common trade, from what I know so far the team getting the dragon is slightly ahead in that trade but I'm sure someone else can elaborate more on that and which teamcomps like which trade more. But yeah, in that spot, easy call: Push turret. Now. Edit: Forgot e) Shen ults to dragon, they kill it 5n4, TPs back to top. You just got owned by a global ult. Goldwise the team that dragons comes up ahead. In terms of exp, if all 5 of them are there they come ahead too, otherwise turret either breaks even or is better. At the same time, the game is decided by # of turrets, not # of dragons (although it helps you get more turrets). Additionally, if you take down top turret, that effectively cuts down on the amount of "safe" farming area the other team has. Not only that, but your team can continue to cs while they take down dragon. At early levels, dragon takes a while to kill, meaning in the 30sec-1minute they're at dragon, your team gets that much time to basically free farm and catch up/get ahead in cs. Pushing hard for top turret is almost always a worthwhile trade, assuming you can take the turret down.
Actually I rarely meet teams who straight up ignore 4n5 dragon and farm. Most people tend to titty dance around the 5 till they realize they wont win a fight and go back to lane at the same time the enemy team does. qq. 
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On May 24 2011 11:41 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 11:05 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 24 2011 10:16 r.Evo wrote:On May 24 2011 09:54 billy5000 wrote:
How would you react to this situation?
Early game: I'm laning against shen (or any champion with teleport) at top. Other team does dragon, and we are fully aware of what's happening. Being extremely cautious, my laning opponent decides to teleport to dragon.
I thought about pushing hard at top, maybe even destroy the turret. But that would mean that I wouldn't be able to farm consistently unless I buy wards, which wouldn't significantly prevent ganks when I'm well ahead of the river.
:\ Imo its a very easy call, but let's play through situations and outcomes. a) You keep lasthitting. They get dragon and your team nothing. b) You run towards dragon. They get dragon and your team gets nothing. c) You run around screaming DEMACIAAAAAAAAAAAAA, their team surrenders. d) You push hard and get their turret. Their team gets dragon, you get turret. Top turret vs dragon is a VERY common trade, from what I know so far the team getting the dragon is slightly ahead in that trade but I'm sure someone else can elaborate more on that and which teamcomps like which trade more. But yeah, in that spot, easy call: Push turret. Now. Edit: Forgot e) Shen ults to dragon, they kill it 5n4, TPs back to top. You just got owned by a global ult. Goldwise the team that dragons comes up ahead. In terms of exp, if all 5 of them are there they come ahead too, otherwise turret either breaks even or is better. At the same time, the game is decided by # of turrets, not # of dragons (although it helps you get more turrets). Additionally, if you take down top turret, that effectively cuts down on the amount of "safe" farming area the other team has. Not only that, but your team can continue to cs while they take down dragon. At early levels, dragon takes a while to kill, meaning in the 30sec-1minute they're at dragon, your team gets that much time to basically free farm and catch up/get ahead in cs. Pushing hard for top turret is almost always a worthwhile trade, assuming you can take the turret down. Actually I rarely meet teams who straight up ignore 4n5 dragon and farm. Most people tend to titty dance around the 5 till they realize they wont win a fight and go back to lane at the same time the enemy team does. qq.
Yea, that actually happens like 90% of the time for me too. Sometimes you get teams that will listen when you say "ignore dragon and just farm/ we can't win a fight." In those cases it's not too bad. But based on what I see in tourney and high elo streams a lot of the times if one side knows they're out of position/can't win the fight they just straight up ignore dragon and farm.
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yeah people trading dragon for their top tower all the time doesn't mean a lot... people pick up dragon and give baron all the time too lol
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On May 24 2011 13:10 UniversalSnip wrote:
yeah people trading dragon for their top tower all the time doesn't mean a lot... people pick up dragon and give baron all the time too lol
well dragon for top tower is somewhat of an even trade. dragon for baron is a terrible trade for the dragoning team lol
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On May 24 2011 09:13 57 Corvette wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 08:59 Slayer91 wrote:On May 24 2011 07:39 57 Corvette wrote:
I've been using a guide off Solomid for Xin, starts off cloth + 5hp then goes wriggles, ghostblade, mercs, BC.
So far I have been curbstomping everyone (I'm at level 20 summoner level, no one follows guides or anything lol), and I am seriously considering buying him before he goes not-free.
Also, why do we call Jarvan "Jarman" sometimes? That's kinda squishy. The better players get the more tanky you tend to have to build on melee, just be warned. Hybrid stuff like frozen mallet and wits end are great as well. Yeah, it is pretty squishy. The last 2 items are usually armour items, Thornmail for AD opponents, FoN otherwise and Randuins round out the build. For the first majority of the game you are a glass cannon, but if you can make it to the defence items, you should have already won it since you carried your team.
Warmog's OP yo.
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AP caitlyn. OP or real OP? Discuss.
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On May 24 2011 13:17 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 13:10 UniversalSnip wrote:
yeah people trading dragon for their top tower all the time doesn't mean a lot... people pick up dragon and give baron all the time too lol well dragon for top tower is somewhat of an even trade. dragon for baron is a terrible trade for the dragoning team lol
really don't feel it's all even, tower kill gives so much map control. Two outer tower losses is something you can easily turn into an outright win.
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Top tower for Dragon is an okay trade most of the time. You lose out in terms of power (they get more XP and Gold) but you gain permanent map influence (you took a tower, which will never respawn, they took dragon, which respawns every six minutes).
If your top laner isn't a good ganker, then it probably isn't worth the trade. The influence gained won't be put to use.
I usually like to take Teleport when I'm top lane so that I can have my cake and eat it too, but I don't go out of my way to take it. Teleport is best on heroes that can clear waves so you can abuse it for split pushes. If I'm soloing top with someone that really needs that extra mobility from Flash or extra damage from Ignite or whatever then I don't take it.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
dragon doesnt give XP im pretty sure. its a strictly gold for gold trade but the top tower will always be there. dragon is usually better since people die 4v5 tryin to protect it all the time
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On May 24 2011 18:10 Brees wrote:
dragon doesnt give XP im pretty sure. its a strictly gold for gold trade but the top tower will always be there. dragon is usually better since people die 4v5 tryin to protect it all the time
Definitely gives XP, only when you're near it; it's not global anymore.
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On May 24 2011 08:11 Brees wrote:
whats wrong with last whisper rushing? if you use an AD page like me on characters that have a lot of physical damage dealing abilities (ashe, caitlyn, etc) you have to get last whisper first or you wont do any damage. once you get it (which is around the time laning ends) you hit like a truck and are relevant for midgame. then you get IE for late
If you use an AD page, you are WAY better off getting a Brutalizer first.
In any case you are hurting yourself a lot by not getting IE first. Games are decided around 20 minutes (or earlier), and that's when you typically get your IE if it's your first big item.
Early LW just doesn't do much at all. At level 9 or so, people have like 50 armor. LW cuts 20 from that.
And really, rush IE on Ashe.
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at level 9 or so people dont just have 50 armor
rushing lw is fine
good ol spine never changes
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On May 24 2011 17:37 exo6yte wrote:
Top tower for Dragon is an okay trade most of the time. You lose out in terms of power (they get more XP and Gold) but you gain permanent map influence (you took a tower, which will never respawn, they took dragon, which respawns every six minutes).
If your top laner isn't a good ganker, then it probably isn't worth the trade. The influence gained won't be put to use.
I usually like to take Teleport when I'm top lane so that I can have my cake and eat it too, but I don't go out of my way to take it. Teleport is best on heroes that can clear waves so you can abuse it for split pushes. If I'm soloing top with someone that really needs that extra mobility from Flash or extra damage from Ignite or whatever then I don't take it.
top tower for dragon is never a worthwhile trade, but in most cases its better than nothing.
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On May 24 2011 09:54 billy5000 wrote:
How would you react to this situation?
Early game: I'm laning against shen (or any champion with teleport) at top. Other team does dragon, and we are fully aware of what's happening. Being extremely cautious, my laning opponent decides to teleport to dragon.
I thought about pushing hard at top, maybe even destroy the turret. But that would mean that I wouldn't be able to farm consistently unless I buy wards, which wouldn't significantly prevent ganks when I'm well ahead of the river.
:\
either take teleport or a champion with a global yourself. otherwise you really have no option other than to push top. Hopefully your allies take bottom/mid tower instead of dying 4v5, but it's solo Q .
another alternative is to pick a character with CC as shen ult + teleports can be interupted and if he is going back or out of vision to teleport, you have a 10 second window where u can push top tower AND also take the inner top tower as well, if you react quickly.
or you can anticipate the teleport and just ghost down to dragon.
or anticipate the dragon fight with ur team and co-odinate someone else with a teleport to hold top while u go down to bottom or mid lane.
or you anticipate the dragon fight and just forsake top tower and force a 4v5( tower will be saved by forcing the fight), hopefully you have some sort of initiaton, otherwise they will just not commit and u lose top tower for free.
Etc etc etc, many variables because of the amount of champions in the game
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And the new rotation is:
mumu annie ashe cho mundo kennen yi nasus vayne zil
Ehhh the good old times when i was like "wow i have only 2 of these champs". Now i have 9 of them on US and 5 of them on EU. I have 8 champs total on EU, real luck
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EPT
