|
In defense of Thrall....
There are many times where I would rather have Thrall over Illidan, especially now that Illidan is nowhere near as tanky as he was. In my experience Thrall is the tankiest melee assassin, especially if you pick block at tier 1. Not only that, Thrall scales well as the game goes on. Kerrigan, on the other hand, does not tend to scale as well relative to other heroes imo. She is very powerful early and while she gains in power as the game goes on, she doesn't gain as much power as other heroes, and unless she gets your team a substantial lead early, I would rather have Thrall.
I'm biased when it comes to Kerrigan, but my response to "all Kerrigan has is her combo" is all Kerrigan needs is her combo.
|
Thrall also has one of the best ults in the game
|
What are the stats(hp, specifically) on lane minions? I can't seem to find this information on online resources like heroesfire.
|
They scale throughout the game and the actual solid numbers seem impossible to find
|
Mexico2170 Posts
On July 01 2015 23:37 MotherFox wrote:
What are the stats(hp, specifically) on lane minions? I can't seem to find this information on online resources like heroesfire.
Phantom to the rescue!
Here you can find all that info about both minions and mercs and ther stuff, this was datamined by Ahli https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhppro252sutl3q/mercenaries.txt?dl=0
The Values for the minions and the exp they give are the same for everymap except Tomb of the spider queen for some reason. I don't know the values of the new map either but probably the same as this.
About Thrall...What he need is to go back to his intended form after they released it. They made it pretty imba at release, then they wanted to nerf him a little but they overnerfed him by mistake and simply said "we'lll see how it goes". Then next patch they didn't rever that nerf, they just gave him a little more health regen, but increased his mana cost and stuff and thats why he is not very good right now imo.
|
Any way to see your current buffs? I read it was in the game before, but they removed it. Right now I pop my iron skin and count to 4s, which is kinda shitty.
|
On July 01 2015 07:42 Freezard wrote:
Alright. Well I was just curious to why that talent is considered the best one (from the builds I've seen) if it only buffs one minion... I really thought it was a typo cause I've seen other typos on talent descriptions.
And which minion should I target?
The talent is Azmodan's hero-specific version of Promote. For a while Promote was really popular as a way to really push a lane and bully opposing heroes out of it, but the latter use has been nerfed pretty heavily. So I don't know if Promote style is going to continue being Azmodan's go-to build.
In the past what you did was select a minion about to die to heal it to full and supercharge it. Now I suppose you pick whatever has full hp since Promote / Bound Minion no longer heals.
On July 01 2015 22:10 Garsecg wrote:
In defense of Thrall....
There are many times where I would rather have Thrall over Illidan, especially now that Illidan is nowhere near as tanky as he was. In my experience Thrall is the tankiest melee assassin, especially if you pick block at tier 1. Not only that, Thrall scales well as the game goes on. Kerrigan, on the other hand, does not tend to scale as well relative to other heroes imo. She is very powerful early and while she gains in power as the game goes on, she doesn't gain as much power as other heroes, and unless she gets your team a substantial lead early, I would rather have Thrall.
I'm biased when it comes to Kerrigan, but my response to "all Kerrigan has is her combo" is all Kerrigan needs is her combo.
What tankiness did Illidan lose? I thought he lost damage on meta and unstoppable on Q. BTW I think both are going to be pretty big deals, the main advantage Illidan had over Thrall was that Illidan was just about impossible to kite with unstoppable on Q *and* W. He lost it on W quite a while ago (minus the bug that got fixed this patch), and is losing it on Q this patch so now you can kite / peel Illidan much easier.
Add on the big damage nerf to Meta and Illidan's dive potential is a lot less scary.
|
Mexico2170 Posts
Forget about the damage, the area reducting is a big deal, it is now very difficult to catch heroes in it wich means no extra health.
|
Oh right, I forgot about the radius nerf. Ya, that's going to be huge too.
Might even see a shift in Meta being used defensively rather than offensively huh?
|
Mexico2170 Posts
I think we will see a shift in that Illidan will not be played rather than played.
|
On July 02 2015 06:06 Wuster wrote:
Oh right, I forgot about the radius nerf. Ya, that's going to be huge too.
Might even see a shift in Meta being used defensively rather than offensively huh?
Hasn't it always been used part defensively, part offensively? Dive in --> get targeted --> use ult when at 30% HP or so --> BOOM second life and ready to prey on the now low HP enemies.
|
I'd argue that your way is still offensively, since you're using the heal to reset / stick around a fight longer, but the semantics don't matter that much I guess.
What I meant by defensively, was using Meta to jump over terrain or flee from a fight, which was definitely considered the non-ideal way to use Meta pre-nerf.
@Phantom do you really think Illidan disappears after the Envenom nerf to Kerrigan / Thrall (although, does Thrall really use Envenom?). Does Butcher just replace them all? Or are you thinking we're going to move to full ranged damage/specialist comps?
Edit: Just realized this is simple questions not general... if this is getting too off-topic I'll stop.
|
When does King Leoric get released?
|
On July 02 2015 08:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
When does King Leoric get released?
Blizzard didn't say it. I think it will be when Butcher costs 10k (so at least 2-3 weeks from now)
|
What heroes do you think are best at carrying bad teams?
|
On July 02 2015 04:22 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 07:42 Freezard wrote:
Alright. Well I was just curious to why that talent is considered the best one (from the builds I've seen) if it only buffs one minion... I really thought it was a typo cause I've seen other typos on talent descriptions.
And which minion should I target? The talent is Azmodan's hero-specific version of Promote. For a while Promote was really popular as a way to really push a lane and bully opposing heroes out of it, but the latter use has been nerfed pretty heavily. So I don't know if Promote style is going to continue being Azmodan's go-to build. In the past what you did was select a minion about to die to heal it to full and supercharge it. Now I suppose you pick whatever has full hp since Promote / Bound Minion no longer heals. Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 22:10 Garsecg wrote:
In defense of Thrall....
There are many times where I would rather have Thrall over Illidan, especially now that Illidan is nowhere near as tanky as he was. In my experience Thrall is the tankiest melee assassin, especially if you pick block at tier 1. Not only that, Thrall scales well as the game goes on. Kerrigan, on the other hand, does not tend to scale as well relative to other heroes imo. She is very powerful early and while she gains in power as the game goes on, she doesn't gain as much power as other heroes, and unless she gets your team a substantial lead early, I would rather have Thrall.
I'm biased when it comes to Kerrigan, but my response to "all Kerrigan has is her combo" is all Kerrigan needs is her combo. What tankiness did Illidan lose? I thought he lost damage on meta and unstoppable on Q. BTW I think both are going to be pretty big deals, the main advantage Illidan had over Thrall was that Illidan was just about impossible to kite with unstoppable on Q *and* W. He lost it on W quite a while ago (minus the bug that got fixed this patch), and is losing it on Q this patch so now you can kite / peel Illidan much easier. Add on the big damage nerf to Meta and Illidan's dive potential is a lot less scary.
The big thing regarding him losing tankinesss is how first aid functions in relation to metamorphosis. As Phantom pointed out, by indirectly losing hp through a missed metamorphosis, first aid (and stoneskin if you take it but I never do) become less effective. There is a very large difference between hitting 3-4 heroes and popping first aid and only hitting one or two and popping first aid.
|
On July 02 2015 18:21 Ovid wrote:
What heroes do you think are best at carrying bad teams?
Vikings are certainly good for leveling/ soaking and possibly keeping up with your opponents if your allies keep dying (for the first 10 or so levels, anyway). They won't carry you to victory, but at least they might be able to even the playing field.
I think Blizzard did a good job of making this a true team game, in that you're not going to see many solo carries.
|
On July 02 2015 18:21 Ovid wrote:
What heroes do you think are best at carrying bad teams?
Assassins generally. Especially ones which can gank. Your early roamers seem the best at it like Nova, Zeratul, Arthas, Kerrigan.
I'd actually say Nova is probably the best at carrying a bad team (assuming you're also matched up against sub-par players)
|
On July 02 2015 18:21 Ovid wrote:
What heroes do you think are best at carrying bad teams?
I think Zeratul is the best by far as he is probably one of the few heroes in the game where you can win the game even if your allies are slighty worse than the enemy team.
The reason being that you can have an impact during all parts of the game and he isn't very team/composition-realiant (as long as the enemy team has a squishy you will find your self useful).
Especially during the laning-phase you will (once you get the hang of it) have a very easy time getting succesful ganks off when roaming. Most people that aren't rank 1 have no idea how to proper positioning them selves during the laning phase when facing a roaming Zeratul. Once I get a hang of learning how to gank with him, I was consistently able to go like 15-0 during the first 10 mins games (this ofc isn't realistic when you start to face higher skilled opponents, but if your an experienced Zeratul player at mid-to-low MMR, definitely doable).
Just remember to be careful about blinking forward (because you can get counterganked which leaves you no room to escape). Instead rely on cloak (in the early game) to get into combat range.
Late game you obviously have a huge gamechanging ultimate in VP. It took me hundreds of games to figure out how to use it consistently well so you will likely fail in the beginning. However, remember this: Avoid placing VPs that blocks the natural paths of your allies. For that reason I will generally avoid VPing enemy melee heroes.
Instead use them to neutralize targets that otherwise would deal a significant amount of damage/utility/heal during a teamfight. If you can, consider attacking the enemy team from behind as that makes it easier to place good VPs (and burst down a squishy).
|
My only issue with Zeratul (not that I disagree, he's a great carry) is for his early game roam you require your team mates in lane to help gank. He can't kill a mostly-full HP hero just by himself. He can set the kill up fairly easily but it still needs at least one team mate to recognize what is going on and help out. While you can ping the enemy to kill him I've found lower MMR players are notorious at choreographing Zeratul ganks. Like they'll be playing back and then all of a sudden out of the blue they'll just rush through the creeps because you've pinged the hero. It makes it a very obvious backing situation for the enemy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
