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United States4883 Posts
I got really tired of people not knowing what to do on this map, so in my rage, I quickly wrote this down as a bit of a mini-guide so people weren't so damn lost on this map. If you disagree with anything I have to say, I'd be glad to hear it, but most of the time, this is what I see in pro games, and I think it's the strongest way to play in the "meta" currently. Enjoy!
HOW TO PLAY DRAGON SHIRE
The Bottom Lane
The bottom lane is the absolute biggest priority in the game. It’s closer to mid lane and it provides access to both the Ogre camps and the bottom Bruiser camp. Being able to control 3 of the 5 camps gives you a lot more power on the map and also allows you to use the pushing power of those camps in order to buy time and secure the top shrine. With 3 people controlling the bottom area, it’s very easy for 2 players to pivot up or down and get mercenary camps while one hero defends the shrine. Control of the bottom shrine also gives you a lot of power in the small jungle between mid and bottom and prevents excessive ganking.
You want a lot of damage in bottom lane to push back the minions and secure it, so a ranged ADC is an absolute must (ex: Valla, Tychus, Sgt. Hammer, Zagara, Falstad, Raynor). To support that hero, you need some heals/CC to help zone out the enemy heroes and keep the push alive for longer. Support heroes like Brightwing, Lili, Malfurion, Rehgar, (Tyrande?), Tassadar, and Uther are good for this. As a final component, you need a little bit more damage or wave clear in order to ensure the hold over the bottom shrine, so another ADC or assassin fits nicely (any ADC or Illidan, Kerrigan, Zeratul, Nova, Tyreal, Nazeebo, Jaina, etc). A tank can sometimes be substituted as well (Anub’arak, Arthas, E.T.C., Diablo, etc.) The idea is to push the lane super hard and secure the shrine and then use the mercenary camps in order to buy time and take the top shrine for the dragon. If the other team doesn’t push back with just as much power, you can also take down towers for free.
The Middle Lane
The middle lane is the second most important part of Dragon Shire, and requires a lot of supervision. This lane is really good for heroes that need stacks (Regen Master, Conjuror’s Pursuit, Seasoned Marksman, or Bribe) because the only job is to stay in the lane to soak xp and keep the lane even. When the Dragon Shrines come up, the middle lane can never be left alone. It is vitally important to understand that the middle lane cannot be ignored ever. With the ridiculously low summoning time of the Dragon Knight, being out of position for even just 10 seconds can result in a Dragon Knight for the other team. The hero in middle lane should not rotate to gank unless there is someone ready to rotate and cover for that hero during their absence. The middle lane cannot be left alone.
Heroes that typically fit into the role of mid lane have the aforementioned talents or can delay the Dragon Knight from being summoned, and that role typically fits assassins and tanks, since the ADCs are generally pushing bottom. A few lane specialists do well here too. Good examples are: Chen, Stitches, Illidan, Nova, Zeratul, Tyrande, Azmodan, Sonya, Muradin.
The Top Lane
The top lane of Dragon Shire is relatively unimportant. Many people make the mistake of thinking that it’s of high importance because there is a shrine there, but the top shrine is actually nominal compared to the bottom shrine. The role of the top laner is to just prevent the towers from going down, so safe play from heroes with decent wave clear will suffice for the role. Examples include Brightwing, Malfurion, Chen, Tassadar, or any ADC (though bottom lane should be the highest priority for ADC heroes).
Example Compositions
Arthas, Valla, Tychus, Uther, Tassadar:
Arthas/Tychus/Uther bottom lane
Tassadar middle lane
Valla top lane
Tychus, Arthas, and Uther can quickly clear a lane and annihilate any two-person composition from the very beginning of the game. Tassadar, with the long range and duration of storm, can easily prevent someone from taking the Dragon Knight for quite a long time. Valla goes top because she has good wave clear and can stave off even a two-man attack; she’s also a bit more nimble and mobile compared to Tychus, so she fits in top lane better than bottom lane.
Illidan, Valla, Stitches, Brightwing, Tyreal:
Valla/Brightwing/Tyreal bottom lane
Illidan middle lane
Stitches top lane
Valla, Brightwing, and Tyreal can push the lane and bully other heroes around pretty well. Stitches could go mid, but because he has arguably better wave clear compared to Illidan with Slam + gas, he works better in top lane. Illidan goes middle lane because there’s really not a better place for him, but being very mobile does help him avoid ganks coming from bottom.
Sgt. Hammer, Malfurion, Uther, Azmodan, Nova:
(this composition is terrible, but for the sake of understanding where people might go….)
Sgt. Hammer/Uther/Nova bottom lane
Azmodan middle lane
Malfurion top lane
Sgt. Hammer and Nova provide the most damage output and prevent easy control of the bottom shrine, while Uther’s burst heal fits better than Malfurion’s slower heal. Azmodan can keep middle lane neutral as well as delay for a long time with demonic warriors/orb for quite a long time. Malfurion’s entangling roots + moonfire allow him to hold his own top.
The Late Game
Depending on the position of your team, rush to either the top or bottom shrine, whichever is closest, and use mercenaries and pushing power to create enough of a distraction to secure both shrines or force a team fight. When behind, it’s better to split up, keep plenty of map vision, and secure whichever shrine the enemy team isn’t at, avoiding a large scale team fight for as long as possible.
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The initial set up on Dragon Shire isn't the hard part. Where players get screwed up is in properly rotating around the map to secure and defend the shrines. This is why heroes like Falstad, Brightwing, and Abathur are so good on Dragon Shire. They can project power across the map almost instantly. Zeratul is also really good on Dragon Shire because void prison makes it really easy to actually grab the dragon once your team has the shrines.
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United States4883 Posts
On December 31 2014 05:18 xDaunt wrote:
The initial set up on Dragon Shire isn't the hard part. Where players get screwed up is in properly rotating around the map to secure and defend the shrines. This is why heroes like Falstad, Brightwing, and Abathur are so good on Dragon Shire. They can project power across the map almost instantly. Zeratul is also really good on Dragon Shire because void prison makes it really easy to actually grab the dragon once your team has the shrines.
I agree that the setup isn't hard at all. But most of the people I end up playing with really don't get it. At all.
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Mexico2170 Posts
When the Dragon Shrines come up, the middle lane can never be left alone.
This cannot be said enough. A lot of people get bored or feel like they are not doing something important in the mid lane and so they leave it to do some other stuff, while in reality having control of the mid lane can be all the diference between win or lose. If the botom shrine gets taken by the enemy for whatever reason, even if its just by mere seconds, the person in the mid lane is the only thing standing in the way of the enemy team. Also, if you manage to get both shrines and you don't have anyone mid, well, no dragon for you!
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On December 31 2014 05:44 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2014 05:18 xDaunt wrote:
The initial set up on Dragon Shire isn't the hard part. Where players get screwed up is in properly rotating around the map to secure and defend the shrines. This is why heroes like Falstad, Brightwing, and Abathur are so good on Dragon Shire. They can project power across the map almost instantly. Zeratul is also really good on Dragon Shire because void prison makes it really easy to actually grab the dragon once your team has the shrines. I agree that the setup isn't hard at all. But most of the people I end up playing with really don't get it. At all.
Well, let me put it this way. I'm not sure that the initial deployment on Dragon Shire really matters. You obviously want at least one person in each lane, but after that, the only hard rule to keep in mind is that one person -- and no more than one person -- should stay mid. Of course, multiple people should crash mid when it is time to seize the dragon.
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United States4883 Posts
On December 31 2014 09:58 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2014 05:44 SC2John wrote:On December 31 2014 05:18 xDaunt wrote:
The initial set up on Dragon Shire isn't the hard part. Where players get screwed up is in properly rotating around the map to secure and defend the shrines. This is why heroes like Falstad, Brightwing, and Abathur are so good on Dragon Shire. They can project power across the map almost instantly. Zeratul is also really good on Dragon Shire because void prison makes it really easy to actually grab the dragon once your team has the shrines. I agree that the setup isn't hard at all. But most of the people I end up playing with really don't get it. At all. Well, let me put it this way. I'm not sure that the initial deployment on Dragon Shire really matters. You obviously want at least one person in each lane, but after that, the only hard rule to keep in mind is that one person -- and no more than one person -- should stay mid. Of course, multiple people should crash mid when it is time to seize the dragon.
You're missing the entire point of this post, I feel like. It's vitally important that you secure each lane in the way I describe or you really don't get the success you need in the mid game. One thing I'm trying really hard to get through to people is that pushing each lane equally is bad; in the case of Dragon Shire, this is doubly so because of how incredibly powerful controlling bottom lane is. If people don't know their role or what their hero is supposed to do, they can't set up properly, and then the mid game becomes a scramble for control over a loose, bad early game.
If you have a team of Falstad/Arthas/Valla/Chen/Reghar and you send Arthas/Rehgar top, Valla/Chen bottom, and Falstad middle, you might do all right (especially against a comp that doesn't have a bunch of god tier heroes), but you would have done a lot more damage to towers on bottom, been up a level or two, and secured a later (but much more powerful) Dragon Knight. It's just a better setup.
Rotating is easy. Someone bottom just rotates up to mid if mid hero needs to go back or help with merc camps (Illidan comes to mind). ADC rotates to Dragon Knight. There are a lot of simple rules that make rotating easy, and it all comes down to people knowing their roles. If they don't know their roles, they can't setup correctly, and they won't be able to rotate correctly either.
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The rotations and team play required on this map when there is action in multiple locations is what makes this map challenging. Your team has to know how many people are needed and where. Telling people to pick a bunch of god tier heroes for a trilane bottom so it is impossible to lose the lane (and therefore the shrine) isn't going to teach people anything.
What you should do is pick some situations and give some possibilities on how to react to them. What does vision at some time tell me the enemy is up to and what ways can I react? The enemy team has captured both the shrines, what do we do based on their current positioning? One of my teammates got caught and we're down a man: How do we delay the dragon or what can we do so that the game isn't lost. Preferably with replays.
At least provide a replay of you executing this strategy and explaining why it is superior to just traditional laning/roaming like xDaunt is talking about.
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Mexico2170 Posts
This is not meant to be a guide on how to extensively play the map, its just a general strategy.
He isn't telling you that you should pick a god like composition and do "X". He is analizys the map, in a quick manner and explaining why the 1-1-3 set up is the best aproach to the map given its general layout and objective.
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On December 31 2014 13:22 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
This is not meant to be a guide on how to extensively play the map, its just a general strategy.
He isn't telling you that you should pick a god like composition and do "X". He is analizys the map, in a quick manner and explaining why the 1-1-3 set up is the best aproach to the map given its general layout and objective.
Not sure why he would write a guide for the first 2 minutes of the game, but alright.
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On December 31 2014 13:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2014 13:22 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
This is not meant to be a guide on how to extensively play the map, its just a general strategy.
He isn't telling you that you should pick a god like composition and do "X". He is analizys the map, in a quick manner and explaining why the 1-1-3 set up is the best aproach to the map given its general layout and objective.
Not sure why you'd write a guide for the first 2 minutes of the game, but alright.
He didn't write it.
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On December 31 2014 14:17 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2014 13:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 31 2014 13:22 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
This is not meant to be a guide on how to extensively play the map, its just a general strategy.
He isn't telling you that you should pick a god like composition and do "X". He is analizys the map, in a quick manner and explaining why the 1-1-3 set up is the best aproach to the map given its general layout and objective.
Not sure why you'd write a guide for the first 2 minutes of the game, but alright. He didn't write it.
sorry fixed pronoun.
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he bottom lane is the absolute biggest priority in the game
To add to this, it's also the easiest to gank on due to how "open" it is to access, and as you mentioned, due to its distance from the middle lane which can easily rotate there. Will expand on ganking below...
This lane is really good for heroes that need stacks (Regen Master, Conjuror’s Pursuit, Seasoned Marksman, or Bribe) because the only job is to stay in the lane to soak xp and keep the lane even.
While it is true that it's hard to leave unattended when both shrines are held by the opponent, I feel that the mid's role is to ensure that the shrines are positively contested by constantly rotating and applying pressure to other lanes. Why? The DK is the only objective there, and you -know- when it's imperative to be there. There are no other easy objectives near there for someone to really hold alone. How do you affirm presence in other lanes? This is done through either having an extremely strong clear (Tassadar, Jaina, Tychus, Valla, and so on), mobility/flexibility (BWing, Falstad, Zeratul) or solid ganks (Arthas, kerrigan, Stitches). Someone like Azmodan could also work with off-lane demon spawns and fireballs. All of these offer, in a way, effective presence. A cleared lane lets you rotate. Good mobility lets you move around quickly. Strong ganks make your absence pay off and pressure shrines. You can't have someone just sit there forever!
The role of the top laner is to just prevent the towers from going down
Controlling the top shrine is, in itself, pressure: It forces the opponent's own bottom lane to keep control themselves or risk a DK spawn. This is why you want strong independent duelers who don't need no gank to sit up there. Having solid clear is secondary to the quintessential need of being hard to move off that point. Most tanks and specialists (yeah, you try a duel versus Gazlowe or Zagara on that beacon) are solid choices to be there.
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You shouldn't assume that everyone are LoL players when writing a guide for HotS, or use terms from another game in the first place.
(In my opinion)
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Neat guide. Thanks for sharing
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On December 31 2014 20:30 Vaelone wrote:
You shouldn't assume that everyone are LoL players when writing a guide for HotS, or use terms from another game in the first place.
(In my opinion)
I'm pretty sure all those terms used originate from dota.
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On December 31 2014 20:53 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2014 20:30 Vaelone wrote:
You shouldn't assume that everyone are LoL players when writing a guide for HotS, or use terms from another game in the first place.
(In my opinion) I'm pretty sure all those terms used originate from dota.
I was just nit picking on use of ADC, which is just in LoL and possibly also in some completely unknown games.
I'm quite positive there's no ADC in DotA. DotA has just a plain "carry" and Heroes doesn't even have that.
Thing with Heroes is that there's no actual carry heroes and surely as hell there's not different variations of carries that scale with different items, ADC just doesn't fit at all unless you're trying to specifically introduce LoL players into Heroes of the Storm.
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On December 31 2014 22:33 Vaelone wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2014 20:53 Uldridge wrote:On December 31 2014 20:30 Vaelone wrote:
You shouldn't assume that everyone are LoL players when writing a guide for HotS, or use terms from another game in the first place.
(In my opinion) I'm pretty sure all those terms used originate from dota. I was just nit picking on use of ADC, which is just in LoL and possibly also in some completely unknown games. I'm quite positive there's no ADC in DotA. DotA has just a plain "carry" and Heroes doesn't even have that. Thing with Heroes is that there's no actual carry heroes and surely as hell there's not different variations of carries that scale with different items, ADC just doesn't fit at all unless you're trying to specifically introduce LoL players into Heroes of the Storm.
I just call them damage dealers, but even that is abstract since everyone does damage. Assassins is definitely appropriate since it represents what they do well, and it's established within the game itself what they are.
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United States4883 Posts
On December 31 2014 19:33 Liquid`Oxygg wrote:To add to this, it's also the easiest to gank on due to how "open" it is to access, and as you mentioned, due to its distance from the middle lane which can easily rotate there. Will expand on ganking below... Show nested quote +This lane is really good for heroes that need stacks (Regen Master, Conjuror’s Pursuit, Seasoned Marksman, or Bribe) because the only job is to stay in the lane to soak xp and keep the lane even. While it is true that it's hard to leave unattended when both shrines are held by the opponent, I feel that the mid's role is to ensure that the shrines are positively contested by constantly rotating and applying pressure to other lanes. Why? The DK is the only objective there, and you -know- when it's imperative to be there. There are no other easy objectives near there for someone to really hold alone. How do you affirm presence in other lanes? This is done through either having an extremely strong clear (Tassadar, Jaina, Tychus, Valla, and so on), mobility/flexibility (BWing, Falstad, Zeratul) or solid ganks (Arthas, kerrigan, Stitches). Someone like Azmodan could also work with off-lane demon spawns and fireballs. All of these offer, in a way, effective presence. A cleared lane lets you rotate. Good mobility lets you move around quickly. Strong ganks make your absence pay off and pressure shrines. You can't have someone just sit there forever! Controlling the top shrine is, in itself, pressure: It forces the opponent's own bottom lane to keep control themselves or risk a DK spawn. This is why you want strong independent duelers who don't need no gank to sit up there. Having solid clear is secondary to the quintessential need of being hard to move off that point. Most tanks and specialists (yeah, you try a duel versus Gazlowe or Zagara on that beacon) are solid choices to be there.
These are good points, especially the second one, and I agree with them fully. Like I said in an earlier post, the biggest reason I wrote this was because I was tired of people not really understanding where they belonged on this map. Certainly there is flexibility in rotating, defending certain lanes, and pressuring others (especially post level 10), but the most important thing is knowing how to set up in the first place and knowing where you're supposed to go (especially in pubs where there is little to no communication between players).
So yes, this is a very, very basic guide. But I felt like it was necessary. The most important point that I wanted to get across is that the lanes are not equal, and it's much better to hold bottom shrine than it is to hold top shrine simply because of the pressure it allows for in terms of mercenaries and ganking potential.
On December 31 2014 20:30 Vaelone wrote:
You shouldn't assume that everyone are LoL players when writing a guide for HotS, or use terms from another game in the first place.
(In my opinion)
I apologize. "ADC" isn't even really an accurate term, like Oxygen said, but yeah, I basically mean anyone who does a lot of damage. To me, "assassins" like Illidan and Zeratul are very different from "assassins" like Tychus and Valla, so I'm a little reluctant to just lump them under one category, but I'll figure out some way to differentiate them eventually.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/StT9ErQ.jpg)
