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In his article here, Brian Kibler talks about 5 cards he believes would benefit Hearthstone. They range from the relatively innocuous-
to the downright moistening-
BK goes on to discuss the cards listed, as well as 3 others (not listed here because it would look absurd and take views from his website) that he believes could influence the game in a positive way. Something seemingly consistent with these cards is their ability to interact with portions of the game that are currently not possible for players to interact with- at least not in any meaningful way.
I'm interested to start a discussion about these cards and what people think the implications would be- positive or negative. I'll leave my personal opinion for following posts as to not muck up the OP, but I think some of these are really interesting and could spark some great discussion!
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im all for new cards :D i also do like more interaction besides the board, i think with the revealing ur opponents hand it could show up like tracking animation for the top 3 cards in ur deck.
Theres also other interesting things you could do with it because its like on a computer instead of handheld cards eg: reveal ur opponents spell cards instead of reveal ur opponents whole hand, because computer will make the "check" for spells while in a handheld game if no ones looking how could u trust ur opponent revealing all spell cards
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Do you think the card is reasonable given the text "reveal your opponents hand" or do you think it should be "reveal the spells in your opponents hand"? It seems like the card would be significantly more fluctuatory in terms of it's usefulness and I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing (see Zoo vs. Rogue).
To touch on the other cards- I think Encroaching Ooze is one of the most, if not the most exciting card I've seen made by a community member yet. It fills an immense void in the game and is 100% different than anything else we've seen. I'm genuinely impressed with this one and think it would significantly improve the game- or at least change it vastly.
I also find Landro really interesting- given that really the only hero power interaction currently is the Steamwheedle Sniper; I suppose it's worth noting Shadowform and Jaraxxus as well. However, Landro is significantly different in that it controls both player's use of their hero power as opposed to changing just your own.
whoops, hit enter a bit prematurely there- hence edit.
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These are early days for hearthstone, and I hope they take some of these considerations into consideration, as right now theres too much variance for it to be a truly competitive game. It will never match poker or chess because those cards and components are the same, but it could be still both fun and skilful.
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Basically Kibler is sick of your ebola decks
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The issue with Encroaching Ooze is that the effect is silenceable, so against hunters the card probably functions very similar to a Senjin. It is possibly even worse, because it doesn't do anything if your opponent's board is threatening lethal while a taunt does.
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On June 04 2015 17:02 imallin wrote:
The issue with Encroaching Ooze is that the effect is silenceable, so against hunters the card probably functions very similar to a Senjin. It is possibly even worse, because it doesn't do anything if your opponent's board is threatening lethal while a taunt does.
Maybe we need the new ability 'this minion can not be targeted by spells, card effects or battlecries'?
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People have long "designed" cards to interrupt charging cards, but I'm probably of the minority that wouldn't want to see this change. Yes Face hunter is a strong deck, but I don't think you need to develop a card that specifically deals with that problem. There's not many uses of stopping charge outside of a few niche cards (grommash, patron decks, etc) unless you're specifically targeting face rushing decks (which is obvious). I think there's better options to pursue with some more time spent thinking about it.
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On June 04 2015 19:38 Rimstalker wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 17:02 imallin wrote:
The issue with Encroaching Ooze is that the effect is silenceable, so against hunters the card probably functions very similar to a Senjin. It is possibly even worse, because it doesn't do anything if your opponent's board is threatening lethal while a taunt does. Maybe we need the new ability 'this minion can not be targeted by spells, card effects or battlecries'?
I feel like you would need to pay HUGE amounts of stats for such an ability- especially if it were on the same card with the "no Charge allowed" flavor. Granted, I would love some new mechanics like this.
Also to address people saying it's all about the ebola/rush/cancer b.s. decks that are floating around- I think that while that's the obvious implication that it isn't necessarily just aimed at these decks- the addition of new mechanics raises the skill cap and gives people opportunities to revisit old cards (notice how new Tempo Mage has a bunch of cards that just weren't quite good enough before but now find themselves in a niche).
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I'll comment ehere since his comment system sucks
This is a great thought, but I outright dislike some of the cards
I am mixed on your 5/6 dragon protector, I would prefer it as a 6/6 Shaman card, but I can see the point. My opinion is that Big Taunts have a huge potenital for breaking the game, and should be handle with the utmost care. Just look at how huge the innocent lokking, understat ShieldMaiden is. I may approve this one, but 6/6 shaman or rogue would be really better.
Flash of light : Mayben Maybe not. I would prefer a more elegant solution, for example a card that discards a card and draws two cards, allowing you to put a healbot or zombie chow without sacrificing too much late game power.
Encroaching ooze is idiot, spitefull and absolutely broken. It hardcounters patron warriors, hunters or druid so much for 0 cost. I agree with the need to adress some problems, not with your solution. Making it a 4/4 living armor thats says "you only receive half damage from creatures" would be more balanced, and still as fit for purpose. This version of the card would obliterate 3 decks into oblivion. BTW I think that having chargless hearthstone would be FAR less interesting. currently, chagre is countered by taunt, and hard countered by ramp druid. Board control is good enough as it is, IMHO.
Landro Longshot is nice. A usefull toolkit card that may find space in some decks. I fear it might be too good in Zoo though.
Mind Flay is fine, but I already hate playing against priest ... . Nothing to say balance wise, but it sure as hell would not be fun. It would feed a usefull roel though, so I am mixed on this one.
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As someone suggested earlier, a card that reveals their hand is really nice. It would have to be something very limiting, though. Like a legendary monster card where you can only see their hand if they have 5+ cards or more, (something like trapdustshoot).
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I think the concept of a neutral "simple big dude" dragon is important to the game simply because of how they work currently; while I also agree that Shamans could use some help currently, I don't think this is the route to take at all.
The issue with the discard mechanic is that Warlocks basically have it trademarked as it's essentially their MO when it comes to the original Warcraft universe. However, Solemn Vigil seems like an utterly ridiculous card as it will typically be an Arcane Intellect that cannot be played until the later stages of the game. I am honestly not sure what the fix for Paladin is in this department though without such a huge overhaul that it looks like a different class.]
I agree that this card is wildly broken- however, to say that it isn't an interesting concept for a mechanic just feels incorrect. It's something fresh and new, and while the "take half damage from creatures" mechanic is also fresh and interesting, it runs into a realm of ambiguity when looking at odd numbers. The idea of paying immensely for stats in order to get the no charge mechanic seems somewhat reasonable to me as taunt has long failed to keep face decks at bay (unless you're as you said, wall Druid). Plus, having more than one option as a way to deal with something always seems healthy to me.
Zoo needs cards though- no hero power = empty hand unless you curve perfectly or redesign the Zoo archetype around the card. I'm mostly playing Devil's advocate here honestly.
Blizzard has often said they wish to shy away from mechanics that are overtly "unfun" the way MC and Pyro used to be, despite them being over-nerfed as some would argue, I think that's a good argument for this card simply because it will feel free dirty having a potentially "mandatory" card simply thrown away. Though it's also a strange card that may simply not translate well enough to be ubiquitous.
edit to address the post above me- this sounds interesting, but the balancing of it would be strange- and to give it to every class seems like a big mistake.
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On June 04 2015 22:07 Zdrastochye wrote:
People have long "designed" cards to interrupt charging cards, but I'm probably of the minority that wouldn't want to see this change. Yes Face hunter is a strong deck, but I don't think you need to develop a card that specifically deals with that problem. There's not many uses of stopping charge outside of a few niche cards (grommash, patron decks, etc) unless you're specifically targeting face rushing decks (which is obvious). I think there's better options to pursue with some more time spent thinking about it.
Half of the strong decks in the metagame rely solely on Charge to be good.
Fast Druid, Patron Warrior, regular Control Warrior (Grommash main win condition) Face Hunter, Hybrid Hunter, some forms of Rogues that still use a charge minion to combo and win with, various forms of Shaman, ect.
If any of these decks had any counterplay in the form Kibler suggests, or hell any way at all, the game would be a lot healthier. Now we don't have to rely on just taunt minions in order to stall out a charge combo.
People defend Aggro Decks and Face Decks with the idea that it keeps control decks "honest". Well, a new minion that would be a counter to charge and charge-effects would keep "Combo" decks honest in that they need to add in the needed tech to fight for the board instead of herp-de-derping drawing a lot of cards and generally ignoring everything, with also the much needed change of requiring decks like Face Hunter to have to silence additional minions if they want to get away with charge shit.
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Yes, people currently use the strongest form of burst damage to close out games in their combo decks, what do you think a combo is? If we release cards specifically targeting an entire archetype of cards we just strengthen the stuff that does well against it. Could you imagine handlock if there were no charging minions in the game anymore? It would be one of the only competitively viable decks.
Aggro decks are fine because while they can get some easy wins, once all tech cards go towards beating those decks, it makes others viable. There are plenty of non aggro decks that people pilot to legend, as well as plenty of face decks too. I don't get the NEED to change everything so drastically to stop what's currently strong. Unless what's currently strong has significantly higher winrates then every other deck it's not needing to be targeted with nerfs or had cards specifically tailored to shut them down. Should we make a 0 mana cost 0/99 taunt which can't be targeted with anything or silenced but dies on turn 6 to sate your face deck anger?
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there are 3 types of silly decks that offer little interaction on your part. Face decks, tempo and combo decks.
All 3 of them can be equally frustrating to play against as control since youre relying heavily on playing a class that can counter them (think freezemage as warrior, or as shaman - 2 very different worlds) or youre relying on exact cards to counter it.
After over a year im going to say that hearthstone offers too little complexity to make this game actually interesting.
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I think it's fine that you think that, but the fact that people are still interested in watching and playing the game on a large scale makes me think that there's plenty of those who think differently than you do. I'm sure if you were around for the launch of any card game it'd seem a bit boring compared to how it is years after release. I imagine in 2-3 more expansions there will be an increase in the complexity of the game.
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The complexity will only increase at this point with new mechanics I feel- otherwise the same systems will be exploited in the same ways to the same results as we've seen.
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On June 05 2015 04:54 Mortal wrote: It's something fresh and new, and while the "take half damage from creatures" mechanic is also fresh and interesting, it runs into a realm of ambiguity when looking at odd numbers..
Revise the text to read "Take 2 less damage from creatures".
That would be an easy way around ambiguity and difficult maths.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Given the whole priest class was built around looking and discarding cards and Blizzard went very against it I highly doubt they'd reintroduce that mechanic
Personally I'd like to see something along the lines of
2 mana 8/8 - Cannot be silenced, You cannot win the game while this creature is alive
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That card sounds batshit insane. I kinda like it.
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So to everyone who thinks Encroaching Ooze will be the death of face hunter and/or combo decks. Please explain how the card is better than Senjin or explain why Senjin hasn't been the death of these decks and this crazy OP card will.
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Here's why Taz isn't nearly as influential as this card in a certain context that is fairly common against combo wombo decks (with Patron being by far the most common occurrence)-
How often will you have a situation where one aspect of a combo (a Treant, a buffed Patron, etc.) just needs to bust through a taunt and then the rest of the damage heads towards the intended target (face usually)? Consider this- 8 mana Warrior plays the Patron charge combo, Inner Rage on the first Patron to clear a Belcher, and then the second clears the ooze, with a third coming in to do whatever. With Encroaching, none of that is possible. Similarly with Taz, the Warrior ends up with a secondary Patron for a follow up- and depending upon the state of the board, that's bad news indeed.
On Draz's card- awesome. R8 8/8 would craft shiny version.
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Yeah we need more mechanics in Hearthstone.
Ways to make your opponent discard some cards beside the full hand draws
Replacing taunt with block mechanic to prevent blind full face playstyles.
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I don't think opponents discarding is really a mechanic that is necessary- not to mention it overtly defies the Blizzard standard of "unfun" mechanics and cards being either done away with or severely gimped. As well, I think the ability to get around defensive mechanics is important, otherwise it turns into a turtle-fest; there just needs to be more options for ways to do that other than playing taunts and hoping things go well.
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I'm totally on board with some way to prevent charge minions from charging. Charge minions can still kill the taunt minion the turn they're played, and silence completely negates the taunt minion from the perspective of a deck like face hunter.
edit: silence also negates this card text now that I think about it, but it'd still be good vs the charge mechanic alone.
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Awesome article! Thank you for sharing the info!
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On June 04 2015 17:02 imallin wrote:
The issue with Encroaching Ooze is that the effect is silenceable, so against hunters the card probably functions very similar to a Senjin. It is possibly even worse, because it doesn't do anything if your opponent's board is threatening lethal while a taunt does.
You could make it like Lotheb, so that all minions your opponent currently holds on hand cannot use their charge.
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On June 07 2015 19:21 BBS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 17:02 imallin wrote:
The issue with Encroaching Ooze is that the effect is silenceable, so against hunters the card probably functions very similar to a Senjin. It is possibly even worse, because it doesn't do anything if your opponent's board is threatening lethal while a taunt does. You could make it like Lotheb, so that all minions your opponent currently holds on hand cannot use their charge.
Was just going to post that, could be made legendary too. To compensate have it's stats buffed to 3/6.
It won't stop the druid combo btw or Huffer for that matter but we already have Loatheb for those I guess. Won't stop Warsong Commander either.
The dragon taunt is exactly what dragon decks need btw. Blizzard implement pls
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Why not have a creature that works like a Nerub'ar Weblord for "Charge" creatures. With better stats.
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Because one of the most common charging creatures, Patrons, don't actually have charge as their flavor text- which means they wouldn't be impeded in any way. It also wouldn't work on the FoN/SR combo as it's not actually a creature, but rather a spell that brings forth creatures.
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On June 08 2015 05:31 Mortal wrote:
Because one of the most common charging creatures, Patrons, don't actually have charge as their flavor text- which means they wouldn't be impeded in any way. It also wouldn't work on the FoN/SR combo as it's not actually a creature, but rather a spell that brings forth creatures.
The ability is written in a way that it does not trigger on play of a minion, but rather as a field effect, similar to Stormwind Champion. It just nullifies the charge effect, which means the Grim Patrons will go back to "cannot attack the turn they are played" even though they did recieve the charge.
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Hm, you're right! I wonder if that could be a point of delineation to make it more or less powerful.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QnjFjQh.png)
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