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Ok mate. When do you spend your money on something:
1. When you are smashed?
2. When you stomp?
If you stomp than why spending money ?
The game is designed around new people without collection to be smashed... so they want collections, to not be smashed.
If they make a system that allows you to enjoy hs without cards from collection where is the profit for Ben ?
Do you really think they work on this for your own pleasure ?
Guys be realistic.
It's not F2P games. It's not even a game with cosmetics/microtransaction.
It's a p2w game with possibilty to play for free but with long tedious and unrewarding grind .
Check your Visas than.
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Ranking up is fun in itself, and it gives status to be the highest among your friends or making legend. (Im quite competetive...)
I was considering gold farming with an aggro deck, but when I hit rank 14 quite fast, Ibwent right back to tryharding.
Casual is a mess, but by losing a few games, the quality of opponents and decks dobdecrease fast. All the concedes make sure you will make your quest eventually.
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On December 01 2014 23:38 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2014 23:36 Dizmaul wrote:
This might be a crazy idea but what if Blizzard has this system so that more people will actually spend some money on the game?? Having new players come in and get smashed isn't going to encourage people to pay. Game needs to be inviting and open this isn't inviting and open.
But you all said how this has been a problem since it came out basically. Yet its getting more and more people playing...
I wonder if any of these crazy p2w decks came from people who wanted better cards without grinding forever. Since the game didn't cost anything to start and they have a decent job, they don't mind spending some money to do that.
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On December 01 2014 09:49 Mortal wrote:
You can't implement something based on disconnects or concedes- but you can give players an incentive to play at a higher level. Even something as simple as a gold reward per star or level you rank up. It's honestly a shockingly terrible system at the moment. You got to rank 20? Here's your cardback? Rank 1? Here's your cardback!
Oh you wanted something more for getting all the way from rank 20 to rank 1? Tough shit sailor, should've gotten Legend ONE TIME FOR THE CARDBACK.
Exactly this. I just recently started playing because a good friend of mine became exceptionally good which motivated me to pick this game up. I have never played a card game before in my life, so I'm as bad as it gets.
Right now, there's no incentive for me to level up whatsoever. I need to get lots of gold as quickly as possible and leveling up a decent constructed deck actually is an obstacle to this, as it makes daily quests - and gaining the daily wins in general - much more tedious.
I can relate to Mortal's post very well, because I, too, was really baffled after I've realized how bad this system is. On the one hand, win-streaks or high(er) ranks are not rewarded in the slightes - you still gain the same crappy 10 gold per 3 wins regardless of the rank. On the other hand, you cannot even mass-game on weekends to make up for the harder work you have to put into the game, if you play on a higher level because you'll run into the daily cap.
These two issues encourage me to concede games quickly when I don't get a good start in order to get my daily quests/wins reliably within a reasonable timeframe.
Now, to get to the OP: the people you are playing are probably also trying to get their daily gold as easily and quickly as possible. Probably they are saving it for GvG though. The only difference is that they are already much more progressed. But the underlying problem, which is the reason for this behaviour, is exactly the same: no reward for ranking up.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On December 01 2014 23:45 Solmyr wrote:
Ok mate. When do you spend your money on something:
1. When you are smashed?
2. When you stomp?
If you stomp than why spending money ?
The game is designed around new people without collection to be smashed... so they want collections, to not be smashed.
If they make a system that allows you to enjoy hs without cards from collection where is the profit for Ben ?
Do you really think they work on this for your own pleasure ?
Guys be realistic.
It's not F2P games. It's not even a game with cosmetics/microtransaction.
It's a p2w game with possibilty to play for free but with long tedious and unrewarding grind .
Check your Visas than.
I only make a purchase on a game if I:
A) Have spent more than 200 hours playing it
B) The purchase improves game play to a considerable degree.
This way I make informed purchases on a product rather than giving away heaps of money on something I might not even enjoy.This is how all people should be purchasing DLC / in game purchases in my opinion. If I'm getting frustrated I simply won't play the game full stop. There are thousands of games out there so why should I put my money into a game that frustrates me when I can play another game.
This is a buyers market and blizzard needs to make the game appealing from the get go.
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On December 02 2014 00:57 Dizmaul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2014 23:38 Drazerk wrote:On December 01 2014 23:36 Dizmaul wrote:
This might be a crazy idea but what if Blizzard has this system so that more people will actually spend some money on the game?? Having new players come in and get smashed isn't going to encourage people to pay. Game needs to be inviting and open this isn't inviting and open. But you all said how this has been a problem since it came out basically. Yet its getting more and more people playing... I wonder if any of these crazy p2w decks came from people who wanted better cards without grinding forever. Since the game didn't cost anything to start and they have a decent job, they don't mind spending some money to do that.
The sad thing is that hearthstone could be bigger than lol, dota and sc2, because it's easy, it's fun and it's appealing to the widest audience, but 90% of people are discouraged to play because of the games p2w nature.
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On December 01 2014 23:36 Dizmaul wrote:
This might be a crazy idea but what if Blizzard has this system so that more people will actually spend some money on the game??
I bought a 40 pack, Naxx, and am debating on buying another 20pack or 40pack GG. If they offered singles for sale or dust for sale I'd be much more inclined to spend even more. Say $2 for a rare, $5 for an epic, and $10 for a legendary. As it stands there's nothing worth buying though. A pack? That's basically buying 40 dust which is less than a single rare. And they're about to make it even harder for me (and many others) to catch up since I won't be able to get the original cards via Arena.
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On December 02 2014 01:53 RyanEnder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2014 23:36 Dizmaul wrote:
This might be a crazy idea but what if Blizzard has this system so that more people will actually spend some money on the game?? I bought a 40 pack, Naxx, and am debating on buying another 20pack or 40pack GG. If they offered singles for sale or dust for sale I'd be much more inclined to spend even more. Say $2 for a rare, $5 for an epic, and $10 for a legendary. As it stands there's nothing worth buying though. A pack? That's basically buying 40 dust which is less than a single rare. And they're about to make it even harder for me (and many others) to catch up since I won't be able to get the original cards via Arena.
I'm guessing that they will find "some way" to make the original cards more accessible in the future. I mean, the more adventures and expansions are released, the harder it will be for new players to get access to the game.
Even though I've roughly 12 years of esports-experience (master league starcraft 2 etc.), being late to the party and playing "catch up" right now is pretty intimidating. If they don't introduce something like you have suggested, then I don't see many new players picking the game up in - say - a year from now on (of course there will always be the 100% f2p casual gamers, but Blizz can't earn money with those).
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Major problem is no reward for playing ranked. After you hit legend, there's literally zero incentive to queue up against all the netdeck nonsense. You can't even make a fun deck and play it, either it will get rolled by undertaker aggro or cancer priest. With the extreme importance of deck vs. skill in this game, noobs running around with fotm pro decks is just debilitating.
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On December 02 2014 01:08 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2014 23:45 Solmyr wrote:
Ok mate. When do you spend your money on something:
1. When you are smashed?
2. When you stomp?
If you stomp than why spending money ?
The game is designed around new people without collection to be smashed... so they want collections, to not be smashed.
If they make a system that allows you to enjoy hs without cards from collection where is the profit for Ben ?
Do you really think they work on this for your own pleasure ?
Guys be realistic.
It's not F2P games. It's not even a game with cosmetics/microtransaction.
It's a p2w game with possibilty to play for free but with long tedious and unrewarding grind .
Check your Visas than. I only make a purchase on a game if I: A) Have spent more than 200 hours playing it B) The purchase improves game play to a considerable degree. This way I make informed purchases on a product rather than giving away heaps of money on something I might not even enjoy.This is how all people should be purchasing DLC / in game purchases in my opinion. If I'm getting frustrated I simply won't play the game full stop. There are thousands of games out there so why should I put my money into a game that frustrates me when I can play another game. This is a buyers market and blizzard needs to make the game appealing from the get go.
You are in the extreme minority then. The guy you responded to is right. Frustration in this game leads to more $$$ for Blizzard.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On December 02 2014 02:48 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2014 01:08 Drazerk wrote:On December 01 2014 23:45 Solmyr wrote:
Ok mate. When do you spend your money on something:
1. When you are smashed?
2. When you stomp?
If you stomp than why spending money ?
The game is designed around new people without collection to be smashed... so they want collections, to not be smashed.
If they make a system that allows you to enjoy hs without cards from collection where is the profit for Ben ?
Do you really think they work on this for your own pleasure ?
Guys be realistic.
It's not F2P games. It's not even a game with cosmetics/microtransaction.
It's a p2w game with possibilty to play for free but with long tedious and unrewarding grind .
Check your Visas than. I only make a purchase on a game if I: A) Have spent more than 200 hours playing it B) The purchase improves game play to a considerable degree. This way I make informed purchases on a product rather than giving away heaps of money on something I might not even enjoy.This is how all people should be purchasing DLC / in game purchases in my opinion. If I'm getting frustrated I simply won't play the game full stop. There are thousands of games out there so why should I put my money into a game that frustrates me when I can play another game. This is a buyers market and blizzard needs to make the game appealing from the get go. You are in the extreme minority then. The guy you responded to is right. Frustration in this game leads to more $$$ for Blizzard.
Pretty much most people I know have similar buying patterns though. I dunno why you would blindly throw money around just seems weird to me.
In my experience people get frustrated and rage quit not give into the game.
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On December 02 2014 03:15 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2014 02:48 Psychobabas wrote:On December 02 2014 01:08 Drazerk wrote:On December 01 2014 23:45 Solmyr wrote:
Ok mate. When do you spend your money on something:
1. When you are smashed?
2. When you stomp?
If you stomp than why spending money ?
The game is designed around new people without collection to be smashed... so they want collections, to not be smashed.
If they make a system that allows you to enjoy hs without cards from collection where is the profit for Ben ?
Do you really think they work on this for your own pleasure ?
Guys be realistic.
It's not F2P games. It's not even a game with cosmetics/microtransaction.
It's a p2w game with possibilty to play for free but with long tedious and unrewarding grind .
Check your Visas than. I only make a purchase on a game if I: A) Have spent more than 200 hours playing it B) The purchase improves game play to a considerable degree. This way I make informed purchases on a product rather than giving away heaps of money on something I might not even enjoy.This is how all people should be purchasing DLC / in game purchases in my opinion. If I'm getting frustrated I simply won't play the game full stop. There are thousands of games out there so why should I put my money into a game that frustrates me when I can play another game. This is a buyers market and blizzard needs to make the game appealing from the get go. You are in the extreme minority then. The guy you responded to is right. Frustration in this game leads to more $$$ for Blizzard. Pretty much most people I know have similar buying patterns though. I dunno why you would blindly throw money around just seems weird to me. In my experience people get frustrated and rage quit not give into the game.
This is correct. Losing horribly to decks that wildly destroy yours isn't going to incentivize people to pour money into the game. More often than not, it'll just piss them off and give them a quite convincing argument for a reason to leave the game entirely.
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Agreed with the op, it's very frustrating playing against full control warrior decks when I'm trying to grind out dailies. That's kind of the nature of the pay model though: you either play enough to have basically all the cards or you pay money to keep up
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It's funny on the bnet forums people still use Trump's F2P runs as examples of telling newb whiners they can make it without spending a dime, at this current stage of the game. I honestly laugh, and tell them to stfu at this point every time, because no new player is going to disenchant cards they are trying to collect with such an inefficient dusting system just to make a Zoo or Huntertaker deck they will be bored of in probably a week. Secondly, Trump's Mage and Shaman runs were with decks that are clearly outdated and wouldn't last a second in this meta post-Naxx, and as anyone saw he cut his Rogue play short because he was getting owned too much.
So yes too bad what a shame for new players. The game is advertised as F2P using an "unethical F2P model" unlike DOTA 2 or Path of Exile. Oh well, either the newbs suck it up and pay $, quit, or endure what me and probably most F2P others do and low rank farm insta concede when you get into win streaks or face a match up you don't want to
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:47 sacrilegious wrote:
It's funny on the bnet forums people still use Trump's F2P runs as examples of telling newb whiners they can make it without spending a dime, at this current stage of the game. I honestly laugh, and tell them to stfu at this point every time, because no new player is going to disenchant cards they are trying to collect with such an inefficient dusting system just to make a Zoo or Huntertaker deck they will be bored of in probably a week. Secondly, Trump's Mage and Shaman runs were with decks that are clearly outdated and wouldn't last a second in this meta post-Naxx, and as anyone saw he cut his Rogue play short because he was getting owned too much.
So yes too bad what a shame for new players. The game is advertised as F2P using an "unethical F2P model" unlike DOTA 2 or Path of Exile. Oh well, either the newbs suck it up and pay $, quit, or endure what me and probably most F2P others do and low rank farm insta concede when you get into win streaks or face a match up you don't want to
Yeah the system is pretty much prey on the weak until you have a complete collection.
Right now there is two win conditions in hearthstone:
Collect all the cards
Become legend
Sad thing is both of these win conditions counteract the other as becoming legend makes it harder to get a complete card collection and collecting cards means you probably aren't going to be legend any time soon. Blizzard made a mistake when designing constructed and a year later they still aren't willing to admit it.
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Sacrilegious: all of your posts are you whining about how unfair Hearthstone is and how much you hate it. Why do you play?
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I think the 10 gold/3 wind reward should be increased
There should be an additional 4% chance to get 10 more gold per rank below 25
Daily cap shouldn't change
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As thousands of others have said, here and elsewhere, there needs to be a reward for higher ranks at the end of the season besides "bonus stars." Give us gold, and make it a non-trivial amount. I hit legend back in the summer, and there really isn't much reason to grind beyond rank 10ish at this point. I just do dailies, and maybe play a few more games if I enjoy the current meta/deck I'm playing. Casual is basically a busted queue, as it is essentially the same decks as ranked.
Make pushing up into the higher ranks worthwhile in a real way. Will that further encourage botting? Yeah, but pretty much everything about this game encourages botting. That isn't a reason to punish real players.
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On December 02 2014 20:16 Drazerk wrote:
Yeah the system is pretty much prey on the weak until you have a complete collection.
Right now there is two win conditions in hearthstone:
Collect all the cards
Become legend
Sad thing is both of these win conditions counteract the other as becoming legend makes it harder to get a complete card collection and collecting cards means you probably aren't going to be legend any time soon. Blizzard made a mistake when designing constructed and a year later they still aren't willing to admit it.
And this is exactly why there needs to be an incentive to climb up the ranks in ladder. Honestly, unless you're a full-time pro like Savjz or many others who go to major tournaments, what's the point of achieving a legendary rank let alone legendary for a card back which I think shows nothing other than you earned it months ago before everyone started getting better today. I mean if the fun factor is going to be minimal (which it clearly is) climbing the ladder for most people, then at least make it so they have a leveling system similar to how SC2 and DOTA 2 (before it got scrapped a month ago) have, where you earn something like a card with low chances of higher rarity or something cosmetic which you can only get by climbing ranks... honestly that's how you give incentive, otherwise screw climbing ranks insta concede all the way despite losing to dumb gimmicky decks occasionally like spellpower Mage, reincarnate Shaman, or divine spirit inner fire noob Priests
On December 02 2014 22:55 Zampano wrote:
Sacrilegious: all of your posts are you whining about how unfair Hearthstone is and how much you hate it. Why do you play?
Why are you derailing this thread with a personal question. Secondly you have no idea what you are talking about based on the bolded statement you just made.
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To be honest from Blizzard's point of view the concept of this game is ideal.
People who do not buy card packs because they are frustrated will never ever buy a lot of anyways.
People who buy packs because they are frustrated and want to win will spend even more money on it though.
I have spent about 500 Euros on this game now (and do own all the important cards) but I still suck and I have to hold back on buying card packs regularly because I still have this "If you just owned more cards you'd win!" mentality.
So this is exactly what Blizzard wants and it is exactly how this game works.
(And hell yeah before you flame me: Yep I am too bad to get to legend, yes I did buy a lot of packs to pay my way up there, and yes I am trying to improve)
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EPT
