EPTBane of Doom - Useful?
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ZeGeR
Sweden30 Posts
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kingjames01
Canada1603 Posts
Of the 6 demons that you can summon: Blood Imp, Flame Imp, Voidwalker, Succubus, Felguard and Dread Infernal 4 have additional costs to summon normally. Try it out and see how it works for you. | ||
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Maand
326 Posts
It is really low value when you summon anything but Dread Infernal or Felguard. And 5 mana - maybe if it did 3 damage. Comparing it to really bad Fire Elemental may not be far off the mark. | ||
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ZeGeR
Sweden30 Posts
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
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CCow
Germany335 Posts
It's a pretty random card, tough. So I am just not sure in what kind of deck it would be of use. ~.~ | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
It depends on your luck, OP. | ||
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ZeGeR
Sweden30 Posts
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Dreamer.T
United States3584 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
- Blood Imp is worth 1 mana - Flame Imp is 2 mana since you get a vanilla 3/2 that doesn't hurt you with its battle cry -- compare this to Bloodfen Raptor - Voidwalker is 1 mana - Succubus is a bit more than 3 mana when you factor out the lack of discard -- compare this to Injured Blademaster, a 3 mana 4/3 with upside - Felguard is worth 4 mana, as its 3/5 stats without the negative battle cry make it directly comparable to Shieldmasta - Dread Infernal is worth 6 mana as a vanilla 6/6 The expected value of your demon summon is less than 3 mana (somewhere around 2.85). Adding the damage value plus the summon value average together yields a total value of slightly less than 4 mana. As Bane of Doom is 5 mana, you lose some value. There's something to be said about having two cards in one, but Bane of Doom just seems underwhelming when three of the demons you summon are effectively one drops. Edit: though if you could summon Doomguard as a potential demon then the card would be worth its value, as Doomguard without the card discard can easily be counted as 7+ mana (6 drop vanilla test plus charge). That'd push the total expected value of Bane of Doom over its casting cost but would make it too random of a card to be used in consistent constructed decks. | ||
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dyaems
0 Posts
it also might be good if the cost is only 4 even if it is 2 damage. and maybe remove the blood imp from one of the summons | ||
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
The average case of a random card needs to be higher because the card is unreliable and people will pay for reliability. | ||
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
Pit Lord Lord Jaraxxus (minion) Doomguard Void Terror All except maybe Jaraxxus and Void Terror are excellent with Bane of Doom. | ||
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ZeGeR
Sweden30 Posts
On February 17 2014 10:53 willoc wrote: You guys are forgetting: Pit Lord Lord Jaraxxus (minion) Doomguard Void Terror All except maybe Jaraxxus and Void Terror are excellent with Bane of Doom. What do you mean? None of those cards can be summoned with Bane of Doom. | ||
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On February 17 2014 10:53 willoc wrote: You guys are forgetting: Pit Lord Lord Jaraxxus (minion) Doomguard Void Terror All except maybe Jaraxxus and Void Terror are excellent with Bane of Doom. None of these can be summoned. | ||
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Maand
326 Posts
Edit: Double sniped. | ||
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
On February 17 2014 10:53 willoc wrote: You guys are forgetting: Pit Lord Lord Jaraxxus (minion) Doomguard Void Terror All except maybe Jaraxxus and Void Terror are excellent with Bane of Doom. Yeah I'd too would like Hearthstone was as rigorous with the wording as MtG, but cards do what is coded for them to do not what is written. | ||
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
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Sutty
0 Posts
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kingjames01
Canada1603 Posts
On February 17 2014 11:46 Big G wrote: I would rather play Stormpike Commando. Exactly. I look at it like a Stormpike Commando with a 50% chance to roll better stats or a 33% to get a Taunt. It's not a game-ending card when it's played, but having the additional hidden text "Battlecry - Deal 2 damage to a minion" allows for flexibility when fighting for board control. It doesn't have a place in every deck, but it found a really good place in my mid-range Warlock deck. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On February 17 2014 11:04 ZeGeR wrote: What do you mean? None of those cards can be summoned with Bane of Doom. The demons it summons are preset? They aren't a random demon from your deck? | ||
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
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incubated
Canada0 Posts
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
On February 17 2014 19:37 incubated wrote: it's an awesome card. the ability to regain board control is critical. you don't use it for damage. it's the dmg+minion combo. you get unlucky with the cloaked imps. they are the least useful, but every other unit is quite good. you aim to play the card as a combo finisher. set up the scenario for it, or get lucky. Exactly, regaining/retaining board control is too critical to play such weak spells as Bane of Doom. And lol who said something about using it for damage only? | ||
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Nyrr
Netherlands36 Posts
On February 17 2014 18:38 Nekovivie wrote: Needs to cost 3. As said earlier in topic, 2 damage = one mana if you compare to other cards, so paying 4 mana at the chance to get a Flame Imp or a Voidwalker is just mega bad. Killing your opponent's two drop followed by summoning a Dread Infernal seems a little bit too good for a turn 3 play. Sure, other times you'll get an imp, but the possibility of getting an enormous advantage like that on turn 3 for one card is just crazy. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On February 17 2014 18:38 Nekovivie wrote: Needs to cost 3. As said earlier in topic, 2 damage = one mana if you compare to other cards, so paying 4 mana at the chance to get a Flame Imp or a Voidwalker is just mega bad. Sorry, But there are a lot of spells that don't follow the 2 damage per 1 mana ratio. Argument is not valid. | ||
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
On February 17 2014 11:46 Big G wrote: I would rather play Stormpike Commando. If you put it that way, Bane of Doom is decently costed. 2 minions are much worse, 2 minions are much better, and 2 are slightly better/worse. The only difference here is that Stormpike Commando does not have the restriction of having to deal lethal damage. | ||
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Jarmam
Denmark140 Posts
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
On February 18 2014 01:49 willoc wrote: Sorry, But there are a lot of spells that don't follow the 2 damage per 1 mana ratio. Argument is not valid. It's not a ratio, it's that cards that just say "deal 2 damage" cost 1 mana. And yeah this just isn't a very good card, too random, not enough damage, too expensive. People can argue all they want but you won't see this being played in any top tier decks. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On February 18 2014 04:06 Navillus wrote: It's not a ratio, it's that cards that just say "deal 2 damage" cost 1 mana. And yeah this just isn't a very good card, too random, not enough damage, too expensive. People can argue all they want but you won't see this being played in any top tier decks. And this is not a card that costs 1 mana for 2 damage. It does other stuff as well. Why are you so adamant at comparing it to only 2 cards (Arcane Shot and Holy Smite) when there are plenty more spells that do damage. Look at Pyroblast: 10 mana for 10 damage. Basically, when the mana cost of a spell (or any card) goes up, the efficiency generally goes down as well (look at all the great 2-drop minions with great stats and effects and then look at the non-legendary 7+ mana minions). | ||
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
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Fi0na
0 Posts
On February 17 2014 10:00 flamewheel wrote: Dealing two damage is worth one mana, as seen with cards like Arcane Shot and Holy Smite. So we can stipulate the damage portion of Bane of Doom is worth one mana, even though the caveat is you have to deal lethal damage to a creature to summon your demon. For the summoning part - Blood Imp is worth 1 mana - Flame Imp is 2 mana since you get a vanilla 3/2 that doesn't hurt you with its battle cry -- compare this to Bloodfen Raptor - Voidwalker is 1 mana - Succubus is a bit more than 3 mana when you factor out the lack of discard -- compare this to Injured Blademaster, a 3 mana 4/3 with upside - Felguard is worth 4 mana, as its 3/5 stats without the negative battle cry make it directly comparable to Shieldmasta - Dread Infernal is worth 6 mana as a vanilla 6/6 The expected value of your demon summon is less than 3 mana (somewhere around 2.85). Adding the damage value plus the summon value average together yields a total value of slightly less than 4 mana. As Bane of Doom is 5 mana, you lose some value. There's something to be said about having two cards in one, but Bane of Doom just seems underwhelming when three of the demons you summon are effectively one drops. if you calculate like that, you should probably also take into account that the summoned minion can be counted as an entirely new card. Luckily there is a fixed price on a card draw for Warlock: 2 mana and 2 health. Depending on what other options of card drawing you are using, the value for a new card might drop down to nearly 2 mana I guess, but let's continue with 2 mana + 2 hp cost. So you get 2 damage (worth 1 mana), a card (2 mana and 2 hp) and that minion summoned for free (maybe 2.85 mana on average). Which is a total of about 5.85 mana and 2 hp value for your 5 mana cost card. While the random aspect does suck, you do get on average more return on investment than on the other generic cards used for the calculation. Now this does not make it a good card (there are plenty of cards who are straight up stronger than others, such as the Voidwalker, which is why I would even rate him at 1.5 mana. Maybe that's just me), but still above average. Not that bad of a deal that it can't be worked into a deck I think, especially if it features some spellpower. | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
On February 18 2014 04:19 willoc wrote: And this is not a card that costs 1 mana for 2 damage. It does other stuff as well. Why are you so adamant at comparing it to only 2 cards (Arcane Shot and Holy Smite) when there are plenty more spells that do damage. Look at Pyroblast: 10 mana for 10 damage. Basically, when the mana cost of a spell (or any card) goes up, the efficiency generally goes down as well (look at all the great 2-drop minions with great stats and effects and then look at the non-legendary 7+ mana minions). I'm not adamant on that, I said one thing... and anyway my point stands, you can argue theory all day but the card still won't see high level play, you can think of ways it's good, but 2 damage for 5 mana that must kill is too low and too specific for such a random effect, there are always going to be other cards that are more consistent plays. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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mnck
Denmark1518 Posts
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On February 17 2014 12:52 willoc wrote: The demons it summons are preset? They aren't a random demon from your deck? yeah. didn't you know that? thats why I made QQ thread during the closed beta and received +ve comments from MVPs. and nothing happened. I think it should be 4 mana, dealing 2 dmg, and summon random IMPs. that would fix it up. (my initial proposal was to summon random demon with negative battlecry. so the following can be summoned Flame Imp Succubus Felguard Doomguard Pit Lord (no more void walker, blood imp, and infernal (and others) because their battlecries are not purely bad) Then, obviously we have to increase the mana cost...) | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On February 17 2014 19:52 Nyrr wrote: Killing your opponent's two drop followed by summoning a Dread Infernal seems a little bit too good for a turn 3 play. Sure, other times you'll get an imp, but the possibility of getting an enormous advantage like that on turn 3 for one card is just crazy. Meh, on hindsight I guess I agree, it would be frustrating to face a 6/6 that early. It's just a really frustrating card to balance. | ||
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maru~
2345 Posts
On February 18 2014 19:08 Nekovivie wrote: Meh, on hindsight I guess I agree, it would be frustrating to face a 6/6 that early. It's just a really frustrating card to balance. That's because the card itself is dumb as hell. Not sure why they would make cards that are either too strong or complete trash based on nothing but rng. | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On February 19 2014 02:35 maru~ wrote: That's because the card itself is dumb as hell. Not sure why they would make cards that are either too strong or complete trash based on nothing but rng. yeah, holy wrath is the best example. | ||
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