On August 17 2009 16:02 Kwark wrote: That said, if anyone else wants to debate the subject I'll happily do it with them. Furthermore if anyone else is actually taken in by his bullshit and wishes to hear my refutation please feel free to repeat his words yourself.
I'll gladly debate the current bill since that is the topic of the thread. Earlier I posted:
Why I am against Obama's "Reform" (at least read until the line, but read it all if you actually want to understand this is a bad plan)
There are 2 aspects of the American medical system that are unique to us and contribute greatly to the reason that our medical care costs more than care does elsewhere. The 2 problems are:
1. Employer based health insurance 2. Our litigation-based national persona leading to defensive medical practices by doctors.
Obama "reform" completely ignores these 2 problems. He doesn't even touch either one of them. If you are going to do reform, why leave these 2 out? Its a waste of a plan. This doesn't even deserve to be called reform because all it does it spend more $$$ in the same way we have always been spending it. No change in tort reform, no change in selectively subsidizing employer based insurance. All it merely is is spending more money in the same way we always have. The 1 new aspect that his plan has that we haven't already been doing is the "public option" which I also have a problem with as i will explain later. But for now, let me expand on the 2 main problems in our system.
1. Employer based heath insurance-->We all know by now that it was never meant to be this way and that it was an artifact of WW2. The problem with this is that it protects insurance companies from the market power of individuals. It inhibits competitive market forces because people do not actually get to choose their plan. Their employer chooses the plan and it is not easy to change.
How many of you feel like you are being price gouged by your car insurance? Is it hard to get car insurance? If you are unhappy with your car insurance, how easy is it to change plans? It is INCREDIBLY easy! That is why the car insurance market works so well. It is cheap, it works well and it is efficient. The same is true of EVERY other kind of insurance in the USA. Only health insurance doesn't work well and that is because ONLY health insurance is mostly employer based. Obama ignores this and does not plan to stop subsidizing employer based insurance. This is why his plan is bad. It does not address the main problems of our system.
The other problem with health insurance, is that it is heavily regulated by the government which makes it harder to function properly.
There are more problems with employer based heath care. When you get your insurance through your company, it lower the labor mobility of the country and that is an economic inefficiency that slows down the economy. For example, someone who has a job with insurance may find a job that better fits his skills with better pay and overall a better match, but if he changes, he loses his insurance. Therefore, he often stays in the worse job and never takes the better job. If all health insurance was privately purchased, you could change jobs all you want and it would not affect your health insurance. The labor force would not have this hurdle keeping them from taking better jobs that fit them better and the economy would run more smoothly.
But Obama has ignored all of this in his plan and just decides to spend more money in the same weird half government/half highly regulated employer based insurace system that we have that is so messed up. And then he calls this "reform".
2. The other problem is out litigation society. Many people feel that if doctors did now have to pay so much in malpractice insurance premiums, they would charge less for procedures. This may be true but I think the cost savings would be pretty small. The MAIN benefit of real tort reform is that it allows doctor's to just do what they think is medically indicated and not order extra tests/procedures (that can each costs up to thousands of dollars per person per test). Doctor's are not free of outside influence and the threat of being sued for multimillion dollar payments WILL affect doctor's behavior and make the whole system run badly. Recent studies show that 5/6 doctors admit to practicing defensive medicine and it is estimated that the defensive medicine aspect is 25% of the costs of the care they give. That is a LOT of money.
But again, there is not a single word about addressing this problem in Obama's plan. There probably never will be any word on tort reform from any democrat-controlled cnogress because....who benefits the most if there is no tort reform? Think for a second....of course it is the lawyers themselves. Well, it turns out that a HUGE percentage of all the money democrats raise comes from lawyers and law firms. Republicans have a similar problem with other industries (like oil), but the truth is that congressional democrats are huge invested in making sure their lawyer constituency is taken care of. So no "reform" there.
These are just a couple of my thoughts on the issue. This is not a good reform bill. It does nothing to lower the cost of drugs (see my post on Pharma and Obama), nothing to control defensive medicine costs, and nothing to address the problem of employer based insurance.
The truth is that health insurance COULD run just as well as any other type of insurance (and all other types really do work very well). The only reason health insurance is not doing a good job right now is because of government intervention. Government single handedly is responsible for the inefficiency of our current system and Obama's response is "well, the market isn't working so well...lets add some more regulation and see if that fixes it".
It is simply a bad plan.
And I haven't heard anyone who supports Obama's bill defend it against my thoughts as of yet.
I don't intend to defend the bill in question because I agree with you that the current chimera is an inefficient overcomplicated mess and that this bill simply expands the coverage of the mess without dealing with it. What I hope will happen is that after the US state takes responsibility for the healthcare of its people (which is what this reform is heading towards) someone will say "this is fucking ridiculous, lets overhaul the system into one that works". Ideally I'd like an overhaul now but I accept that it's baby steps and therefore I intend not to defend the bill on its own merits (because I agree with you there) but rather defend nationalised healthcare as a concept and this bill as a stepping stone. With that in mind, I won't argue the case for nationalised healthcare over the current system (because again there we are agreed) but rather nationalised healthcare over an individual insurance system (which I agree would be better than the current system but which I believe is worse than a nationalised system).
Firstly, I believe a key advantage of nationalised healthcare over a private system is that public health challenges can be met with a co-ordinated, universal approach in a public system. From pandemics to obesity, public can invest in the good health of the people which pay for themselves and more in lower healthcare costs. For example, we can get nicotene gum subsidised on the NHS as well as other help to stop smoking. While this does cost tax money whereas in a private system the cost of dealing with their lung cancer would fall firmly on the smokers (in his insurance premiums) it still costs less money. Prevention is far cheaper than cure. So while I acknowledge the argument "why should the healthy man pay for another mans vice?" I don't agree with it because by doing so the overall costs of healthcare are decreased. And when society is wasting less money treating preventable illnesses everyone benefits. That money gets spent or invested and returns back into the cycle. Wasting money makes society as a whole poorer, not just the individual wasting it. This example of low cost prevention is even more extreme when you look at vaccination programs or free checkups for early treatment of cancer. In the UK women at risk of cervical cancer are notified and recommended to see their doctor for a checkup because it is far cheaper to only find it in 1% of the people you screen but find it when it is easily treatable than wait until the symptoms force them to you but require far more trained staff spending far more hours dealing with it.
Secondly, the costs of curing someone are less than the costs of treating the symptoms of a condition for years on end. Lower class people without insurance will have trouble paying for the treatment they need immediately and will instead spend far more money with worse results managing the symptoms over a long period of time. Again, this is money being wasted. I get that you believe people should be allowed to waste their money as they see fit but ultimately, unless you believe in it so strongly you'll allow them to die on the street, eventually you pick up the tab. If you accept the responsibility of providing critical care to a patient regardless of insurance, and I hope you do, then ultimately you're agreeing to pick up the tab on his healthcare. Once you accept the state has a vested interest it makes sense to act pre-emptively to lower that. A state system does that. An insurance system doesn't because they only pay indirectly, through higher hospital costs. Either way the people end up paying for it, through premiums or taxation. But in one system they pay less.
Thirdly. medicine has a diminishing return on investment, the improvement in healthcare is not proportionate to the increase in cost. To put that in context. Public takes X money and treats everyone with Y quality of health care. Private will take X money, treat half the people with only 1.5Y quality. Better for the people being treated but far less cost efficient. This is where we get moralising versus free market. I accept that the guy who has saved all his life will want to spend his fortune on some expensive treatment by the most expensive doctors to try and buy himself another 6 months of breathing. However that same money could buy people who don't need such talented doctors or such expensive equipment many times his 6 months. Why should he get to waste his money on buying himself a few more days when the same money could buy some poorer people years. Of course here we're moving into socialism and there is no right answer. After all, you could take it to the extreme and point out that if I really believed in that then I'd do away with the NHS and spend all the money on curing tb and malaria in Africa for the few dollars it takes to save a life. I believe a mixed system of public and private along with rationing in the public sector is the best answer to this question. You may disagree and I won't begrudge you for it because this is an entirely subjective issue. However, in my opinion rationing provides by far the most effective healthcare with the money provided. We have an institute called NICE (National Institute for Clinical Excellence) which weighs the costs of treatments against the gains in patient welfare and judges where the money should be spent. By dealing with all the cheaply cured patients first and moving up the scale you get the maximum bang for your buck. This system is more efficient than a private system but it also takes away individual choice. However you must remember that there is always the private option. By opting to go private you are essentially forfeiting the tax you paid towards the nationalised health service but ultimately that is not all that much money. The procedures which will be out of reach of the middle class in a public system will still be out of their reach in a private system. The rich will get the same quality of care in both systems. It is only a very small segment of society on the cusp who could just about scrape the money together in a private system but could not in a public who will be adversely effected. Whereas the number of people positively effected is far greater. However as I've already said, I will understand if you don't agree with my third point about the morality of rationing (although not if you disagree with the greater efficiency from rationing).
Fourthly, sick people are bad for society in general. Poor people who are ill with a contagious virus ignore it and infect those around them, perpetuating the problem. While that may not bother you, eventually one of those people getting paid so little he can't afford to take a sick day will be the guy coughing over your food. To use a crude analogy, you may not like your toilet on a personal level, you may not think it deserves your investment, but you still buy products to keep it hygenic because if you don't it'll be worse for you.
We have so far contemplated a free society and a free market, where any needed defense against violent invasion of person and property is supplied, not by the State, but by freely competitive, marketable defense agencies. Our major task in this volume is to analyze the effects of various types of violent intervention in society and, especially, in the market. Most of our examples will deal with the State, since the State is uniquely the agency engaged in regularized violence on a large scale. However, our analysis applies to the extent that any individual or group commits violent invasion. Whether the invasion is “legal” or not does not concern us, since we are engaged in praxeological, not legal, analysis.
One of the most lucid analyses of the distinction between State and market was set forth by Franz Oppenheimer. He pointed out that there are fundamentally two ways of satisfying a person’s wants: (1) by production and voluntary exchange with others on the market and (2) by violent expropriation of the wealth of others.[1] The first method Oppenheimer termed “the economic means” for the satisfaction of wants; the second method, “the political means.” The State is trenchantly defined as the “organization of the political means.”[2]
A generic term is needed to designate an individual or group that commits invasive violence in society. We may call intervener, or invader, one who intervenes violently in free social or market relations. The term applies to any individual or group that initiates violent intervention in the free actions of persons and property owners.
What types of intervention can the invader commit? Broadly, we may distinguish three categories. In the first place, the intervener may command an individual subject to do or not to do certain things when these actions directly involve the individual’s person or property alone. In short, he restricts the subject’s use of his property when exchange is not involved. This may be called an autistic intervention, for any specific command directly involves only the subject himself. Secondly, the intervener may enforce a coerced exchange between the individual subject and himself, or a coerced “gift” to himself from the subject. Thirdly, the invader may either compel or prohibit an exchange between a pair of subjects. The former may be called a binary intervention, since a hegemonic relation is established between two people (the intervener and the subject); the latter may be called a triangular intervention, since a hegemonic relation is created between the invader and a pair of exchangers or would-be exchangers. The market, complex though it may be, consists of a series of exchanges between pairs of individuals. However extensive the interventions, then, they may be resolved into unit impacts on either individual subjects or pairs of individual subjects.
All these types of intervention, of course, are subdivisions of the hegemonic relation—the relation of command and obedience—as contrasted with the contractual relation of voluntary mutual benefit.
Autistic intervention occurs when the invader coerces a subject without receiving any good or service in return. Widely disparate types of autistic intervention are: homicide, assault, and compulsory enforcement or prohibition of any salute, speech, or religious observance. Even if the intervener is the State, which issues the edict to all individuals in the society, the edict is still in itself an autistic intervention, since the lines of force, so to speak, radiate from the State to each individual alone. Binary intervention occurs when the invader forces the subject to make an exchange or a unilateral “gift” of some good or service to the invader. Highway robbery and taxes are examples of binary intervention, as are conscription and compulsory jury service. Whether the binary hegemonic relation is a coerced “gift” or a coerced exchange does not really matter a great deal. The only difference is in the type of coercion involved. Slavery, of course, is usually a coerced exchange, since the slaveowner must supply his slaves with subsistence.
Curiously enough, writers on political economy have recognized only the third category as intervention.[3] It is understandable that preoccupation with catallactic problems has led economists to overlook the broader praxeological category of actions that lie outside the monetary exchange nexus. Nevertheless, they are part of the subject matter of praxeology—and should be subjected to analysis. There is far less excuse for economists to neglect the binary category of intervention. Yet many economists who profess to be champions of the “free market” and opponents of interference with it have a peculiarly narrow view of freedom and intervention. Acts of binary intervention, such as conscription and the imposition of income taxes, are not considered intervention at all nor as interferences with the free market. Only instances of triangular intervention, such as price control, are conceded to be intervention. Curious schemata are developed in which the market is considered absolutely “free” and unhampered despite a regular system of imposed taxation. Yet taxes (and conscripts) are paid in money and thus enter the catallactic, as well as the wider praxeological, nexus.[4]
In tracing the effects of intervention, one must take care to analyze all its consequences, direct and indirect. It is impossible in the space of this volume to trace all the effects of every one of the almost infinite number of possible varieties of intervention, but sufficient analysis can be made of the important categories of intervention and the consequences of each. Thus, it must be remembered that acts of binary intervention have definite triangular repercussions: an income tax will shift the pattern of exchanges between subjects from what it otherwise would have been. Furthermore, all the consequences of an act must be considered; it is not sufficient to engage in a “partial-equilibrium” analysis of taxation, for example, and to consider a tax completely apart from the fact that the State subsequently spends the tax money.
2. Direct Effects of Intervention on Utility
A. Intervention and Conflict
The first step in analyzing intervention is to contrast the direct effect on the utilities of the participants, with the effect of a free society. When people are free to act, they will always act in a way that they believe will maximize their utility, i.e., will raise them to the highest possible position on their value scale. Their utility ex ante will be maximized, provided we take care to interpret “utility” in an ordinal rather than a cardinal manner. Any action, any exchange that takes place on the free market or more broadly in the free society, occurs because of the expected benefit to each party concerned. If we allow ourselves to use the term “society” to depict the pattern of all individual exchanges, then we may say that the free market “maximizes” social utility, since everyone gains in utility. We must be careful, however, not to hypostatize “society” into a real entity that means something else than an array of all individuals.
Coercive intervention, on the other hand, signifies per se that the individual or individuals coerced would not have done what they are now doing were it not for the intervention. The individual who is coerced into saying or not saying something or into making or not making an exchange with the intervener or with someone else is having his actions changed by a threat of violence. The coerced individual loses in utility as a result of the intervention, for his action has been changed by its impact. Any intervention, whether it be autistic, binary, or triangular, causes the subjects to lose in utility. In autistic and binary intervention, each individual loses in utility; in triangular intervention, at least one, and sometimes both, of the pair of would-be exchangers lose in utility.
Who, in contrast, gains in utility ex ante? Clearly, the intervener; otherwise he would not have intervened. Either he gains in exchangeable goods at the expense of his subject, as in binary intervention, or, as in autistic and triangular intervention, he gains in a sense of well-being from enforcing regulations upon others.
All instances of intervention, then, in contrast to the free market, are cases in which one set of men gains at the expense of other men. In binary intervention, the gains and losses are “tangible” in the form of exchangeable goods and services; in other types of intervention, the gains are nonexchangeable satisfactions, and the loss consists in being coerced into less satisfying types of activity (if not positively painful ones).
Before the development of economic science, people thought of exchange and the market as always benefiting one party at the expense of the other. This was the root of the mercantilist view of the market. Economics has shown that this is a fallacy, for on the market both parties to any exchange benefit. On the market, therefore, there can be no such thing as exploitation. But the thesis of a conflict of interest is true whenever the State or any other agency intervenes on the market. For then the intervener gains only at the expense of subjects who lose in utility. On the market all is harmony. But as soon as intervention appears and is established, conflict is created, for each may participate in a scramble to be a net gainer rather than a net loser—to be part of the invading team, instead of one of the victims.
It has become fashionable to assert that “Conservatives” like John C. Calhoun “anticipated” the Marxian doctrine of class exploitation. But the Marxian doctrine holds, erroneously, that there are “classes” on the free market whose interests clash and conflict. Calhoun’s insight was almost the reverse. Calhoun saw that it was the intervention of the State that in itself created the “classes” and the conflict.[5] He particularly perceived this in the case of the binary intervention of taxes. For he saw that the proceeds of taxes are used and spent, and that some people in the community must be net payers of tax funds, while the others are net recipients. Calhoun defined the latter as the “ruling class” of the exploiters, and the former as the “ruled” or exploited, and the distinction is quite a cogent one. Calhoun set forth his analysis brilliantly:
Few, comparatively, as they are, the agents and employees of the government constitute that portion of the community who are the exclusive recipients of the proceeds of the taxes. Whatever amount is taken from the community in the form of taxes, if not lost, goes to them in the shape of expenditures or disbursements. The two—disbursement and taxation—constitute the fiscal action of the government. They are correlatives. What the one takes from the community under the name of taxes is transferred to the portion of the community who are the recipients under that of disbursements. But as the recipients constitute only a portion of the community, it follows, taking the two parts of the fiscal process together, that its action must be unequal between the payers of the taxes and the recipients of their proceeds. Nor can it be otherwise; unless what is collected from each individual in the shape of taxes shall be returned to him in that of disbursements, which would make the process nugatory and absurd. . . .
Such being the case, it must necessarily follow that some one portion of the community must pay in taxes more than it receives back in disbursements, while another receives in disbursements more than it pays in taxes. It is, then, manifest, taking the whole process together, that taxes must be, in effect, bounties to that portion of the community which receives more in disbursements than it pays in taxes, while to the other which pays in taxes more than it receives in disbursements they are taxes in reality—burdens instead of bounties. This consequence is unavoidable. It results from the nature of the process, be the taxes ever so equally laid. . . .
The necessary result, then, of the unequal fiscal action of the government is to divide the community into two great classes: one consisting of those who, in reality, pay the taxes and, of course, bear exclusively the burden of supporting the government; and the other, of those who are the recipients of their proceeds through disbursements, and who are, in fact, supported by the government; or, in fewer words, to divide it into tax-payers and tax-consumers.
But the effect of this is to place them in antagonistic relations in reference to the fiscal action of the government and the entire course of policy therewith connected. For the greater the taxes and disbursements, the greater the gain of the one and the loss of the other, and vice versa. . . .[6]
“Ruling” and “ruled” apply also to the forms of government intervention, but Calhoun was quite right in focusing on taxes and fiscal policy as the keystone, for it is taxes that supply the resources and payment for the State in performing its myriad other acts of intervention.
All State intervention rests on the binary intervention of taxes at its base; even if the State intervened nowhere else, its taxation would remain. Since the term “social” can be applied only to every single individual concerned, it is clear that, while the free market maximizes social utility, no act of the State can ever increase social utility. Indeed, the picture of the free market is necessarily one of harmony and mutual benefit; the picture of State intervention is one of caste conflict, coercion, and exploitation.
B. Democracy and the Voluntary
It might be objected that all these forms of intervention are really not coercive but “voluntary,” for in a democracy they are supported by the majority of the people. But this support is usually passive, resigned, and apathetic, rather than eager—whether the State is a democracy or not.[7]
In a democracy, the nonvoters can hardly be said to support the rulers, and neither can the voters for the losing side. But even those who voted for the winners may well have voted merely for the “lesser of the two evils.” The interesting question is: Why do they have to vote for any evil at all? Such terms are never used by people when they act freely for themselves, or when they purchase goods on the free market. No one thinks of his new suit or refrigerator as an “evil”—lesser or greater. In such cases, people think of themselves as buying positive “goods,” not as resignedly supporting a lesser bad. The point is that the public never has the opportunity of voting on the State system itself; they are caught up in a system in which coercion over them is inevitable.[8]
Be that as it may, as we have said, all States are supported by a majority—whether a voting democracy or not; otherwise, they could not long continue to wield force against the determined resistance of the majority. However, the support may simply reflect apathy—perhaps from the resigned belief that the State is a permanent if unwelcome fixture of nature. Witness the motto: “Nothing is as permanent as death and taxes.”
Setting all these matters aside, however, and even granting that a State might be enthusiastically supported by a majority, we still do not establish its voluntary nature. For the majority is not society, is not everyone. Majority coercion over the minority is still coercion.
Since States exist, and they are accepted for generations and centuries, we must conclude that a majority are at least passive supporters of all States—for no minority can for long rule an actively hostile majority. In a certain sense, therefore, all tyranny is majority tyranny, regardless of the formalities of the government structure.[9][10] But this does not change our analytic conclusion of conflict and coercion as a corollary of the State. The conflict and coercion exist no matter how many people coerce how many others.[11]
C. Utility and Resistance to Invasion
To our comparative “welfare-economic” analysis of the free market and the State, it might be objected that when defense agencies restrain an invader from attacking someone’s property, they are benefiting the property owner at the expense of a loss of utility by the would-be invader. Since defense agencies enforce rights on the free market, does not the free market also involve a gain by some at the expense of the utility of others (even if these others are invaders)?
In answer, we may state first that the free market is a society in which all exchange voluntarily. It may most easily be conceived as a situation in which no one aggresses against person or property. In that case, it is obvious that the utility of all is maximized on the free market. Defense agencies become necessary only as a defense against invasions of that market. It is the invader, not the existence of the defense agency, that inflicts losses on his fellowmen. A defense agency existing without an invader would simply be a voluntarily established insurance against attack. The existence of a defense agency does not violate the principle of maximum utility, and it still reflects mutual benefit to all concerned. Conflict enters only with the invader. The invader, let us say, is in the process of committing an aggressive act against Smith, thereby injuring Smith for his gain. The defense agency, rushing to the aid of Smith, of course, injures the invader’s utility; but it does so only to counteract the injury to Smith. It does help to maximize the utility of the noncriminals. The principle of conflict and loss of utility was introduced, not by the existence of the defense agency, but by the existence of the invader. It is still true, therefore, that utility is maximized for all on the free market; whereas to the extent that there is invasive interference in society, it is infected with conflict and exploitation of man by man.
D. The Argument from Envy
Another objection holds that the free market does not really increase the utility of all individuals, because some may be so smitten with envy at the success of others that they really lose in utility as a result. We cannot, however, deal with hypothetical utilities divorced from concrete action. We may, as praxeologists, deal only with utilities that we can deduce from the concrete behavior of human beings.[12] A person’s “envy,” unembodied in action, becomes pure moonshine from the praxeological point of view. All that we know is that he has participated in the free market and to that extent benefits by it. How he feels about the exchanges made by others cannot be demonstrated to us unless he commits an invasive act. Even if he publishes a pamphlet denouncing these exchanges, we have no ironclad proof that this is not a joke or a deliberate lie.
E. Utility Ex Post
We have thus seen that individuals maximize their utility ex ante on the free market and that the direct result of an invasion is that the invader’s utility gains at the expense of a loss in utility by his victim. But what about utilities ex post? People may expect to benefit when they make a decision, but do they actually benefit from its results? The remainder of this volume will largely consist of analysis of what we may call the “indirect” consequences of the market or of intervention, supplementing the above direct analysis. It will deal with chains of consequences that can be grasped only by study and are not immediately visible to the naked eye.
Error can always occur in the path from ante to post, but the free market is so constructed that this error is reduced to a minimum. In the first place, there is a fast-working, easily understandable test that tells the entrepreneur, as well as the income-receiver, whether he is succeeding or failing at the task of satisfying the desires of the consumer. For the entrepreneur, who carries the main burden of adjustment to uncertain consumer desires, the test is swift and sure—profits or losses. Large profits are a signal that he has been on the right track; losses, that he has been on a wrong one. Profits and losses thus spur rapid adjustments to consumer demands; at the same time, they perform the function of getting money out of the hands of the bad entrepreneurs and into the hands of the good ones. The fact that good entrepreneurs prosper and add to their capital, and poor ones are driven out, insures an ever smoother market adjustment to changes in conditions. Similarly, to a lesser extent, land and labor factors move in accordance with the desire of their owners for higher incomes, and more value-productive factors are rewarded accordingly.
Consumers also take entrepreneurial risks on the market. Many critics of the market, while willing to concede the expertise of the capitalist-entrepreneurs, bewail the prevailing ignorance of consumers, which prevents them from gaining the utility ex post that they expected to have ex ante. Typically, Wesley C. Mitchell entitled one of his famous essays: “The Backward Art of Spending Money.” Professor Ludwig von Mises has keenly pointed out the paradoxical position of so many “progressives” who insist that consumers are too ignorant or incompetent to buy products intelligently, while at the same time touting the virtues of democracy, where the same people vote for politicians whom they do not know and for policies that they hardly understand.
In fact, the truth is precisely the reverse of the popular ideology. Consumers are not omniscient, but they do have direct tests by which to acquire their knowledge. They buy a certain brand of breakfast food and they don’t like it; so they don’t buy it again. They buy a certain type of automobile and they do like its performance; so they buy another one. In both cases, they tell their friends of this newly won knowledge. Other consumers patronize consumers’ research organizations, which can warn or advise them in advance. But, in all cases, the consumers have the direct test of results to guide them. And the firm that satisfies the consumers expands and prospers, while the firm that fails to satisfy them goes out of business.
On the other hand, voting for politicians and public policies is a completely different matter. Here there are no direct tests of success or failure whatever, neither profits and losses nor enjoyable or unsatisfying consumption. In order to grasp consequences, especially the indirect consequences of governmental decisions, it is necessary to comprehend a complex chain of praxeological reasoning, such as will be developed in this volume. Very few voters have the ability or the interest to follow such reasoning, particularly, as Schumpeter points out, in political situations. For in political situations, the minute influence that any one person has on the results, as well as the seeming remoteness of the actions, induces people to lose interest in political problems or argumentation.[13] Lacking the direct test of success or failure, the voter tends to turn, not to those politicians whose measures have the best chance of success, but to those with the ability to “sell” their propaganda. Without grasping logical chains of deduction, the average voter will never be able to discover the error that the ruler makes. Thus, suppose that the government inflates the money supply, thereby causing an inevitable rise in prices. The government can blame the price rise on wicked speculators or alien black marketeers, and, unless the public knows economics, it will not be able to see the fallacies in the ruler’s arguments.
It is ironic that those writers who complain of the wiles and lures of advertising do not direct their criticism at the advertising of political campaigns, where their charges would be relevant. As Schumpeter states:
The picture of the prettiest girl that ever lived will in the long run prove powerless to maintain the sales of a bad cigarette. There is no equally effective safeguard in the case of political decisions. Many decisions of fateful importance are of a nature that makes it impossible for the public to experiment with them at its leisure and at moderate cost. Even if that is possible, however, judgment is as a rule not so easy to arrive at as it is in the case of the cigarette, because effects are less easy to interpret.[14]
It might be objected that, while the average voter may not be competent to decide on policies that require for his decision chains of praxeological reasoning, he is competent to pick the experts—the politicians and bureaucrats—who will decide on the issues, just as the individual may select his own private expert adviser in any one of numerous fields. But the point is precisely that in government the individual does not have the direct, personal test of success or failure for his hired expert that he does on the market. On the market, individuals tend to patronize those experts whose advice proves most successful. Good doctors or lawyers reap rewards on the free market, while the poor ones fail; the privately hired expert tends to flourish in proportion to his demonstrated ability. In government, on the other hand, there is no concrete test of the expert’s success. In the absence of such a test, there is no way by which the voter can gauge the true expertise of the man he must vote for. This difficulty is aggravated in modern-style elections, where the candidates agree on all the fundamental issues. For issues, after all, are susceptible to reasoning; the voter can, if he so wishes and he has the ability, learn about and decide on the issues. But what can any voter, even the most intelligent, know about the true expertise or competence of individual candidates, especially when elections are shorn of virtually all important issues? The voter can then fall back only on the purely external, packaged “personalities” or images of the candidates. The result is that voting purely on candidates makes the result even less rational than mass voting on the issues themselves.
Furthermore, the government itself contains inherent mechanisms that lead to poor choices of experts and officials. For one thing, the politician and the government expert receive their revenues, not from service voluntarily purchased on the market, but from a compulsory levy on the populace. These officials, therefore, wholly lack the pecuniary incentive to care about serving the public properly and competently. And, what is more, the vital criterion of “fitness” is very different in the government and on the market. In the market, the fittest are those most able to serve the consumers; in government, the fittest are those most adept at wielding coercion and/or those most adroit at making demagogic appeals to the voting public.
Another critical divergence between market action and democratic voting is this: the voter has, for example, only a 1/50 millionth power to choose among his would-be rulers, who in turn will make vital decisions affecting him, unchecked and unhampered until the next election. In the market, on the other hand, the individual has the absolute sovereign power to make the decisions concerning his person and property, not merely a distant, 1/50 millionth power. On the market the individual is continually demonstrating his choice of buying or not buying, selling or not selling, in the course of making absolute decisions regarding his property. The voter, by voting for some particular candidate, is demonstrating only a relative preference over one or two other potential rulers; he must do this within the framework of the coercive rule that, whether or not he votes at all, one of these men will rule over him for the next several years.[15]
Thus, we see that the free market contains a smooth, efficient mechanism for bringing anticipated, ex ante utility into the realization of ex post. The free market always maximizes ex ante social utility as well. In political action, on the contrary, there is no such mechanism; indeed, the political process inherently tends to delay and thwart the realization of any expected gains. Furthermore, the divergence between ex post gains through government and through the market is even greater than this; for we shall find that in every instance of government intervention, the indirect consequences will be such as to make the intervention appear worse in the eyes of many of its original supporters.
In sum, the free market always benefits every participant, and it maximizes social utility ex ante; it also tends to do so ex post, since it works for the rapid conversion of anticipations into realizations. With intervention, one group gains directly at the expense of another, and therefore social utility cannot be increased; the attainment of goals is blocked rather than facilitated; and, as we shall see, the indirect consequences are such that many interveners themselves will lose utility ex post. The remainder of this work is largely devoted to tracing the indirect consequences of various forms of governmental intervention.
[1]A person may receive gifts, but this is a unitary act of the giver, not involving an act of the receiver himself.
[2]See Franz Oppenheimer, The State (New York: Vanguard Press, 1914):
There are two fundamentally opposed means whereby man, requiring sustenance, is impelled to obtain the necessary means for satisfying his desires. These are work and robbery, one’s own labor and the forcible appropriation of the labor of others. . . . I propose . . . to call one’s own labor and the equivalent exchange of one’s own labor for the labor of others “the economic means” for the satisfaction of needs, while the unrequited appropriation of the labor of others will be called the “political means. . . . The state is an organization of the political means. (pp. 24–27)
See also Albert Jay Nock, Our Enemy, the State (Caldwell, Idaho: Caxton Printers, 1946), pp. 59–62; Frank Chodorov, The Economics of Society, Government, and the State (mimeographed MS., New York, 1946), pp. 64ff. On the State as engaging in permanent conquest, see ibid., pp. 13–16, 111–17, 136–40.
[3]This is to be inferred from, rather than discovered in explicit form in, their writings. As far as we know, no one has systematically categorized or analyzed types of intervention.
[4]A narrow view of “freedom” is characteristic in the present day. In the political lexicon of modern America, “left-wingers” often advocate freedom in the sense of opposition to autistic intervention, but look benignly on triangular intervention. “Right-wingers,” on the other hand, severely oppose triangular intervention, but tend to favor, or remain indifferent to, autistic intervention. Both groups are ambivalent toward binary intervention.
[5]“Castes” would be a better term than “classes” here. Classes are any collection of units with a certain property in common. There is no reason for them to conflict. Does the class of men named Jones necessarily conflict with the class of men named Smith? On the other hand, castes are State-made groups, each with its own set of violence-established privileges and tasks. Castes necessarily conflict because some are instituted to rule over the others.
[6]John C. Calhoun, A Disquisition on Government (New York: Liberal Arts Press, 1953), pp. 16–18. Calhoun, however, did not understand the harmony of interests on the free market.
[7]As Professor Lindsay Rogers has trenchantly written on the subject of public opinion:
Before Great Britain adopted conscription in 1939, only thirty-nine percent of the voters were for it; a week after the conscription bill became law, a poll showed that fifty-eight percent approved. Many polls in the United States have shown a similar inflation of support for a policy as soon as it is translated to the statute books or into a Presidential order. (Lindsay Rogers, “‘The Mind of America’ to the Fourth Decimal Place,” The Reporter, June 30, 1955, p. 44)
[8]This coercion would exist even in the most direct democracies. It is doubly compounded in representative republics, where the people never have a chance of voting on issues, but only on the men who rule them. They can only reject men—and this at very long intervals—and if the candidates have the same views on issues, the public cannot effect any sort of fundamental change.
[9]It is often stated that under “modern” conditions of destructive weapons, etc., a minority can tyrannize permanently over a majority. But this ignores the fact that these weapons can be held by the majority, or that agents of the minority can mutiny. The sheer absurdity, for example, of the current belief that a few million could really tyrannize over a few hundred million active resistants is not often realized. As David Hume profoundly stated:
Nothing appears more surprising . . . than the easiness with which the many are governed by the few and the implicit submission with which men resign their own sentiments and passions to those of their rulers. When we enquire by what means this wonder is effected, we shall find that because Force is always on the side of the governed, the governors have nothing to support them but opinion. It is, therefore, on opinion that government is founded; and this maxim extends to the most despotic and most military governments. (David Hume, Essays, Literary, Moral and Political [London, n.d.], p. 23)
See also Etienne de La Boétie, Anti-Dictator (New York: Columbia University Press, 1942), pp. 8–9. For an analysis of the types of opinion fostered by the State in order to obtain public support, see Bertrand de Jouvenel, On Power (New York: Viking Press, 1949).
[10]This analysis of majority support applies to any intervention of rather long standing, carried on frankly and openly, whether or not the groups are labeled “States.”
[11]See Calhoun, Disquisition on Government, pp. 14, 18–19, 23–33.
[12]Elsewhere, we have named this concept “demonstrated preference,” have traced its history, and have directed a critique against competing concepts. See Murray N. Rothbard, “Toward a Reconstruction of Utility and Welfare Economics” in Mary Sennholz, ed., On Freedom and Free Enterprise (Princeton, N.J.: D. Van Nostrand, 1956), pp. 224ff.
[13]Joseph A. Schumpeter, Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy (New York: Harper & Bros., 1942), pp. 258–60. See also Anthony Downs, “An Economic Theory of Political Action in a Democracy,” Journal of Political Economy, April, 1957, pp. 135–50.
[14]Schumpeter, Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, p. 263.
[15]For a further discussion of these points, see Man, Economy, and State, pp. 886–91.
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This is something everyone should read and should be required in School in Economics classes and Government classes. While I disagree on privatized militaries, the rest is demonstrative of the wreckless nature of Government intervention into markets and any form of Government control, subsidies, and other intrusions.
I agree Aegraen. Government intervention is not always the answer. Sometimes they need to just let businesses fail and not get involved using taxpayer money.
On August 17 2009 19:23 Kwark wrote: I don't intend to defend the bill in question because I agree with you that the current chimera is an inefficient overcomplicated mess and that this bill simply expands the coverage of the mess without dealing with it. What I hope will happen is that after the US state takes responsibility for the healthcare of its people (which is what this reform is heading towards) someone will say "this is fucking ridiculous, lets overhaul the system into one that works". Ideally I'd like an overhaul now but I accept that it's baby steps and therefore I intend not to defend the bill on its own merits (because I agree with you there) but rather defend nationalised healthcare as a concept and this bill as a stepping stone. With that in mind, I won't argue the case for nationalised healthcare over the current system (because again there we are agreed) but rather nationalised healthcare over an individual insurance system (which I agree would be better than the current system but which I believe is worse than a nationalised system).
Firstly, I believe a key advantage of nationalised healthcare over a private system is that public health challenges can be met with a co-ordinated, universal approach in a public system. From pandemics to obesity, public can invest in the good health of the people which pay for themselves and more in lower healthcare costs. For example, we can get nicotene gum subsidised on the NHS as well as other help to stop smoking. While this does cost tax money whereas in a private system the cost of dealing with their lung cancer would fall firmly on the smokers (in his insurance premiums) it still costs less money. Prevention is far cheaper than cure. So while I acknowledge the argument "why should the healthy man pay for another mans vice?" I don't agree with it because by doing so the overall costs of healthcare are decreased. And when society is wasting less money treating preventable illnesses everyone benefits. That money gets spent or invested and returns back into the cycle. Wasting money makes society as a whole poorer, not just the individual wasting it. This example of low cost prevention is even more extreme when you look at vaccination programs or free checkups for early treatment of cancer. In the UK women at risk of cervical cancer are notified and recommended to see their doctor for a checkup because it is far cheaper to only find it in 1% of the people you screen but find it when it is easily treatable than wait until the symptoms force them to you but require far more trained staff spending far more hours dealing with it.
Secondly, the costs of curing someone are less than the costs of treating the symptoms of a condition for years on end. Lower class people without insurance will have trouble paying for the treatment they need immediately and will instead spend far more money with worse results managing the symptoms over a long period of time. Again, this is money being wasted. I get that you believe people should be allowed to waste their money as they see fit but ultimately, unless you believe in it so strongly you'll allow them to die on the street, eventually you pick up the tab. If you accept the responsibility of providing critical care to a patient regardless of insurance, and I hope you do, then ultimately you're agreeing to pick up the tab on his healthcare. Once you accept the state has a vested interest it makes sense to act pre-emptively to lower that. A state system does that. An insurance system doesn't because they only pay indirectly, through higher hospital costs. Either way the people end up paying for it, through premiums or taxation. But in one system they pay less.
Thirdly. medicine has a diminishing return on investment, the improvement in healthcare is not proportionate to the increase in cost. To put that in context. Public takes X money and treats everyone with Y quality of health care. Private will take X money, treat half the people with only 1.5Y quality. Better for the people being treated but far less cost efficient. This is where we get moralising versus free market. I accept that the guy who has saved all his life will want to spend his fortune on some expensive treatment by the most expensive doctors to try and buy himself another 6 months of breathing. However that same money could buy people who don't need such talented doctors or such expensive equipment many times his 6 months. Why should he get to waste his money on buying himself a few more days when the same money could buy some poorer people years. Of course here we're moving into socialism and there is no right answer. After all, you could take it to the extreme and point out that if I really believed in that then I'd do away with the NHS and spend all the money on curing tb and malaria in Africa for the few dollars it takes to save a life. I believe a mixed system of public and private along with rationing in the public sector is the best answer to this question. You may disagree and I won't begrudge you for it because this is an entirely subjective issue. However, in my opinion rationing provides by far the most effective healthcare with the money provided. We have an institute called NICE (National Institute for Clinical Excellence) which weighs the costs of treatments against the gains in patient welfare and judges where the money should be spent. By dealing with all the cheaply cured patients first and moving up the scale you get the maximum bang for your buck. This system is more efficient than a private system but it also takes away individual choice. However you must remember that there is always the private option. By opting to go private you are essentially forfeiting the tax you paid towards the nationalised health service but ultimately that is not all that much money. The procedures which will be out of reach of the middle class in a public system will still be out of their reach in a private system. The rich will get the same quality of care in both systems. It is only a very small segment of society on the cusp who could just about scrape the money together in a private system but could not in a public who will be adversely effected. Whereas the number of people positively effected is far greater. However as I've already said, I will understand if you don't agree with my third point about the morality of rationing (although not if you disagree with the greater efficiency from rationing).
Fourthly, sick people are bad for society in general. Poor people who are ill with a contagious virus ignore it and infect those around them, perpetuating the problem. While that may not bother you, eventually one of those people getting paid so little he can't afford to take a sick day will be the guy coughing over your food. To use a crude analogy, you may not like your toilet on a personal level, you may not think it deserves your investment, but you still buy products to keep it hygenic because if you don't it'll be worse for you.
Wow, you totally nuked the thread with great argument and sense! I'd vote you for president.
On August 17 2009 19:23 Kwark wrote: I don't intend to defend the bill in question because I agree with you that the current chimera is an inefficient overcomplicated mess and that this bill simply expands the coverage of the mess without dealing with it. What I hope will happen is that after the US state takes responsibility for the healthcare of its people (which is what this reform is heading towards) someone will say "this is fucking ridiculous, lets overhaul the system into one that works". Ideally I'd like an overhaul now but I accept that it's baby steps and therefore I intend not to defend the bill on its own merits (because I agree with you there) but rather defend nationalised healthcare as a concept and this bill as a stepping stone. With that in mind, I won't argue the case for nationalised healthcare over the current system (because again there we are agreed) but rather nationalised healthcare over an individual insurance system (which I agree would be better than the current system but which I believe is worse than a nationalised system).
Firstly, I believe a key advantage of nationalised healthcare over a private system is that public health challenges can be met with a co-ordinated, universal approach in a public system. From pandemics to obesity, public can invest in the good health of the people which pay for themselves and more in lower healthcare costs. For example, we can get nicotene gum subsidised on the NHS as well as other help to stop smoking. While this does cost tax money whereas in a private system the cost of dealing with their lung cancer would fall firmly on the smokers (in his insurance premiums) it still costs less money. Prevention is far cheaper than cure. So while I acknowledge the argument "why should the healthy man pay for another mans vice?" I don't agree with it because by doing so the overall costs of healthcare are decreased. And when society is wasting less money treating preventable illnesses everyone benefits. That money gets spent or invested and returns back into the cycle. Wasting money makes society as a whole poorer, not just the individual wasting it. This example of low cost prevention is even more extreme when you look at vaccination programs or free checkups for early treatment of cancer. In the UK women at risk of cervical cancer are notified and recommended to see their doctor for a checkup because it is far cheaper to only find it in 1% of the people you screen but find it when it is easily treatable than wait until the symptoms force them to you but require far more trained staff spending far more hours dealing with it.
Secondly, the costs of curing someone are less than the costs of treating the symptoms of a condition for years on end. Lower class people without insurance will have trouble paying for the treatment they need immediately and will instead spend far more money with worse results managing the symptoms over a long period of time. Again, this is money being wasted. I get that you believe people should be allowed to waste their money as they see fit but ultimately, unless you believe in it so strongly you'll allow them to die on the street, eventually you pick up the tab. If you accept the responsibility of providing critical care to a patient regardless of insurance, and I hope you do, then ultimately you're agreeing to pick up the tab on his healthcare. Once you accept the state has a vested interest it makes sense to act pre-emptively to lower that. A state system does that. An insurance system doesn't because they only pay indirectly, through higher hospital costs. Either way the people end up paying for it, through premiums or taxation. But in one system they pay less.
Thirdly. medicine has a diminishing return on investment, the improvement in healthcare is not proportionate to the increase in cost. To put that in context. Public takes X money and treats everyone with Y quality of health care. Private will take X money, treat half the people with only 1.5Y quality. Better for the people being treated but far less cost efficient. This is where we get moralising versus free market. I accept that the guy who has saved all his life will want to spend his fortune on some expensive treatment by the most expensive doctors to try and buy himself another 6 months of breathing. However that same money could buy people who don't need such talented doctors or such expensive equipment many times his 6 months. Why should he get to waste his money on buying himself a few more days when the same money could buy some poorer people years. Of course here we're moving into socialism and there is no right answer. After all, you could take it to the extreme and point out that if I really believed in that then I'd do away with the NHS and spend all the money on curing tb and malaria in Africa for the few dollars it takes to save a life. I believe a mixed system of public and private along with rationing in the public sector is the best answer to this question. You may disagree and I won't begrudge you for it because this is an entirely subjective issue. However, in my opinion rationing provides by far the most effective healthcare with the money provided. We have an institute called NICE (National Institute for Clinical Excellence) which weighs the costs of treatments against the gains in patient welfare and judges where the money should be spent. By dealing with all the cheaply cured patients first and moving up the scale you get the maximum bang for your buck. This system is more efficient than a private system but it also takes away individual choice. However you must remember that there is always the private option. By opting to go private you are essentially forfeiting the tax you paid towards the nationalised health service but ultimately that is not all that much money. The procedures which will be out of reach of the middle class in a public system will still be out of their reach in a private system. The rich will get the same quality of care in both systems. It is only a very small segment of society on the cusp who could just about scrape the money together in a private system but could not in a public who will be adversely effected. Whereas the number of people positively effected is far greater. However as I've already said, I will understand if you don't agree with my third point about the morality of rationing (although not if you disagree with the greater efficiency from rationing).
Fourthly, sick people are bad for society in general. Poor people who are ill with a contagious virus ignore it and infect those around them, perpetuating the problem. While that may not bother you, eventually one of those people getting paid so little he can't afford to take a sick day will be the guy coughing over your food. To use a crude analogy, you may not like your toilet on a personal level, you may not think it deserves your investment, but you still buy products to keep it hygenic because if you don't it'll be worse for you.
Wow, you totally nuked the thread with great argument and sense! I'd vote you for president.
Egalitarism and Utilaritarism are the basis and constructs of pretty much every human atrocity committed, especially in the 20th century. The foundation is antithesis to civil liberty, personal liberty, and freedom. I'm glad you would vote for someone who would deny an older person care because of cost and efficiency.
We have so far contemplated a free society and a free market, where any needed defense against violent invasion of person and property is supplied, not by the State, but by freely competitive, marketable defense agencies. Our major task in this volume is to analyze the effects of various types of violent intervention in society and, especially, in the market. Most of our examples will deal with the State, since the State is uniquely the agency engaged in regularized violence on a large scale. However, our analysis applies to the extent that any individual or group commits violent invasion. Whether the invasion is “legal” or not does not concern us, since we are engaged in praxeological, not legal, analysis.
One of the most lucid analyses of the distinction between State and market was set forth by Franz Oppenheimer. He pointed out that there are fundamentally two ways of satisfying a person’s wants: (1) by production and voluntary exchange with others on the market and (2) by violent expropriation of the wealth of others.[1] The first method Oppenheimer termed “the economic means” for the satisfaction of wants; the second method, “the political means.” The State is trenchantly defined as the “organization of the political means.”[2]
A generic term is needed to designate an individual or group that commits invasive violence in society. We may call intervener, or invader, one who intervenes violently in free social or market relations. The term applies to any individual or group that initiates violent intervention in the free actions of persons and property owners.
What types of intervention can the invader commit? Broadly, we may distinguish three categories. In the first place, the intervener may command an individual subject to do or not to do certain things when these actions directly involve the individual’s person or property alone. In short, he restricts the subject’s use of his property when exchange is not involved. This may be called an autistic intervention, for any specific command directly involves only the subject himself. Secondly, the intervener may enforce a coerced exchange between the individual subject and himself, or a coerced “gift” to himself from the subject. Thirdly, the invader may either compel or prohibit an exchange between a pair of subjects. The former may be called a binary intervention, since a hegemonic relation is established between two people (the intervener and the subject); the latter may be called a triangular intervention, since a hegemonic relation is created between the invader and a pair of exchangers or would-be exchangers. The market, complex though it may be, consists of a series of exchanges between pairs of individuals. However extensive the interventions, then, they may be resolved into unit impacts on either individual subjects or pairs of individual subjects.
All these types of intervention, of course, are subdivisions of the hegemonic relation—the relation of command and obedience—as contrasted with the contractual relation of voluntary mutual benefit.
Autistic intervention occurs when the invader coerces a subject without receiving any good or service in return. Widely disparate types of autistic intervention are: homicide, assault, and compulsory enforcement or prohibition of any salute, speech, or religious observance. Even if the intervener is the State, which issues the edict to all individuals in the society, the edict is still in itself an autistic intervention, since the lines of force, so to speak, radiate from the State to each individual alone. Binary intervention occurs when the invader forces the subject to make an exchange or a unilateral “gift” of some good or service to the invader. Highway robbery and taxes are examples of binary intervention, as are conscription and compulsory jury service. Whether the binary hegemonic relation is a coerced “gift” or a coerced exchange does not really matter a great deal. The only difference is in the type of coercion involved. Slavery, of course, is usually a coerced exchange, since the slaveowner must supply his slaves with subsistence.
Curiously enough, writers on political economy have recognized only the third category as intervention.[3] It is understandable that preoccupation with catallactic problems has led economists to overlook the broader praxeological category of actions that lie outside the monetary exchange nexus. Nevertheless, they are part of the subject matter of praxeology—and should be subjected to analysis. There is far less excuse for economists to neglect the binary category of intervention. Yet many economists who profess to be champions of the “free market” and opponents of interference with it have a peculiarly narrow view of freedom and intervention. Acts of binary intervention, such as conscription and the imposition of income taxes, are not considered intervention at all nor as interferences with the free market. Only instances of triangular intervention, such as price control, are conceded to be intervention. Curious schemata are developed in which the market is considered absolutely “free” and unhampered despite a regular system of imposed taxation. Yet taxes (and conscripts) are paid in money and thus enter the catallactic, as well as the wider praxeological, nexus.[4]
In tracing the effects of intervention, one must take care to analyze all its consequences, direct and indirect. It is impossible in the space of this volume to trace all the effects of every one of the almost infinite number of possible varieties of intervention, but sufficient analysis can be made of the important categories of intervention and the consequences of each. Thus, it must be remembered that acts of binary intervention have definite triangular repercussions: an income tax will shift the pattern of exchanges between subjects from what it otherwise would have been. Furthermore, all the consequences of an act must be considered; it is not sufficient to engage in a “partial-equilibrium” analysis of taxation, for example, and to consider a tax completely apart from the fact that the State subsequently spends the tax money.
2. Direct Effects of Intervention on Utility
A. Intervention and Conflict
The first step in analyzing intervention is to contrast the direct effect on the utilities of the participants, with the effect of a free society. When people are free to act, they will always act in a way that they believe will maximize their utility, i.e., will raise them to the highest possible position on their value scale. Their utility ex ante will be maximized, provided we take care to interpret “utility” in an ordinal rather than a cardinal manner. Any action, any exchange that takes place on the free market or more broadly in the free society, occurs because of the expected benefit to each party concerned. If we allow ourselves to use the term “society” to depict the pattern of all individual exchanges, then we may say that the free market “maximizes” social utility, since everyone gains in utility. We must be careful, however, not to hypostatize “society” into a real entity that means something else than an array of all individuals.
Coercive intervention, on the other hand, signifies per se that the individual or individuals coerced would not have done what they are now doing were it not for the intervention. The individual who is coerced into saying or not saying something or into making or not making an exchange with the intervener or with someone else is having his actions changed by a threat of violence. The coerced individual loses in utility as a result of the intervention, for his action has been changed by its impact. Any intervention, whether it be autistic, binary, or triangular, causes the subjects to lose in utility. In autistic and binary intervention, each individual loses in utility; in triangular intervention, at least one, and sometimes both, of the pair of would-be exchangers lose in utility.
Who, in contrast, gains in utility ex ante? Clearly, the intervener; otherwise he would not have intervened. Either he gains in exchangeable goods at the expense of his subject, as in binary intervention, or, as in autistic and triangular intervention, he gains in a sense of well-being from enforcing regulations upon others.
All instances of intervention, then, in contrast to the free market, are cases in which one set of men gains at the expense of other men. In binary intervention, the gains and losses are “tangible” in the form of exchangeable goods and services; in other types of intervention, the gains are nonexchangeable satisfactions, and the loss consists in being coerced into less satisfying types of activity (if not positively painful ones).
Before the development of economic science, people thought of exchange and the market as always benefiting one party at the expense of the other. This was the root of the mercantilist view of the market. Economics has shown that this is a fallacy, for on the market both parties to any exchange benefit. On the market, therefore, there can be no such thing as exploitation. But the thesis of a conflict of interest is true whenever the State or any other agency intervenes on the market. For then the intervener gains only at the expense of subjects who lose in utility. On the market all is harmony. But as soon as intervention appears and is established, conflict is created, for each may participate in a scramble to be a net gainer rather than a net loser—to be part of the invading team, instead of one of the victims.
It has become fashionable to assert that “Conservatives” like John C. Calhoun “anticipated” the Marxian doctrine of class exploitation. But the Marxian doctrine holds, erroneously, that there are “classes” on the free market whose interests clash and conflict. Calhoun’s insight was almost the reverse. Calhoun saw that it was the intervention of the State that in itself created the “classes” and the conflict.[5] He particularly perceived this in the case of the binary intervention of taxes. For he saw that the proceeds of taxes are used and spent, and that some people in the community must be net payers of tax funds, while the others are net recipients. Calhoun defined the latter as the “ruling class” of the exploiters, and the former as the “ruled” or exploited, and the distinction is quite a cogent one. Calhoun set forth his analysis brilliantly:
Few, comparatively, as they are, the agents and employees of the government constitute that portion of the community who are the exclusive recipients of the proceeds of the taxes. Whatever amount is taken from the community in the form of taxes, if not lost, goes to them in the shape of expenditures or disbursements. The two—disbursement and taxation—constitute the fiscal action of the government. They are correlatives. What the one takes from the community under the name of taxes is transferred to the portion of the community who are the recipients under that of disbursements. But as the recipients constitute only a portion of the community, it follows, taking the two parts of the fiscal process together, that its action must be unequal between the payers of the taxes and the recipients of their proceeds. Nor can it be otherwise; unless what is collected from each individual in the shape of taxes shall be returned to him in that of disbursements, which would make the process nugatory and absurd. . . .
Such being the case, it must necessarily follow that some one portion of the community must pay in taxes more than it receives back in disbursements, while another receives in disbursements more than it pays in taxes. It is, then, manifest, taking the whole process together, that taxes must be, in effect, bounties to that portion of the community which receives more in disbursements than it pays in taxes, while to the other which pays in taxes more than it receives in disbursements they are taxes in reality—burdens instead of bounties. This consequence is unavoidable. It results from the nature of the process, be the taxes ever so equally laid. . . .
The necessary result, then, of the unequal fiscal action of the government is to divide the community into two great classes: one consisting of those who, in reality, pay the taxes and, of course, bear exclusively the burden of supporting the government; and the other, of those who are the recipients of their proceeds through disbursements, and who are, in fact, supported by the government; or, in fewer words, to divide it into tax-payers and tax-consumers.
But the effect of this is to place them in antagonistic relations in reference to the fiscal action of the government and the entire course of policy therewith connected. For the greater the taxes and disbursements, the greater the gain of the one and the loss of the other, and vice versa. . . .[6]
“Ruling” and “ruled” apply also to the forms of government intervention, but Calhoun was quite right in focusing on taxes and fiscal policy as the keystone, for it is taxes that supply the resources and payment for the State in performing its myriad other acts of intervention.
All State intervention rests on the binary intervention of taxes at its base; even if the State intervened nowhere else, its taxation would remain. Since the term “social” can be applied only to every single individual concerned, it is clear that, while the free market maximizes social utility, no act of the State can ever increase social utility. Indeed, the picture of the free market is necessarily one of harmony and mutual benefit; the picture of State intervention is one of caste conflict, coercion, and exploitation.
B. Democracy and the Voluntary
It might be objected that all these forms of intervention are really not coercive but “voluntary,” for in a democracy they are supported by the majority of the people. But this support is usually passive, resigned, and apathetic, rather than eager—whether the State is a democracy or not.[7]
In a democracy, the nonvoters can hardly be said to support the rulers, and neither can the voters for the losing side. But even those who voted for the winners may well have voted merely for the “lesser of the two evils.” The interesting question is: Why do they have to vote for any evil at all? Such terms are never used by people when they act freely for themselves, or when they purchase goods on the free market. No one thinks of his new suit or refrigerator as an “evil”—lesser or greater. In such cases, people think of themselves as buying positive “goods,” not as resignedly supporting a lesser bad. The point is that the public never has the opportunity of voting on the State system itself; they are caught up in a system in which coercion over them is inevitable.[8]
Be that as it may, as we have said, all States are supported by a majority—whether a voting democracy or not; otherwise, they could not long continue to wield force against the determined resistance of the majority. However, the support may simply reflect apathy—perhaps from the resigned belief that the State is a permanent if unwelcome fixture of nature. Witness the motto: “Nothing is as permanent as death and taxes.”
Setting all these matters aside, however, and even granting that a State might be enthusiastically supported by a majority, we still do not establish its voluntary nature. For the majority is not society, is not everyone. Majority coercion over the minority is still coercion.
Since States exist, and they are accepted for generations and centuries, we must conclude that a majority are at least passive supporters of all States—for no minority can for long rule an actively hostile majority. In a certain sense, therefore, all tyranny is majority tyranny, regardless of the formalities of the government structure.[9][10] But this does not change our analytic conclusion of conflict and coercion as a corollary of the State. The conflict and coercion exist no matter how many people coerce how many others.[11]
C. Utility and Resistance to Invasion
To our comparative “welfare-economic” analysis of the free market and the State, it might be objected that when defense agencies restrain an invader from attacking someone’s property, they are benefiting the property owner at the expense of a loss of utility by the would-be invader. Since defense agencies enforce rights on the free market, does not the free market also involve a gain by some at the expense of the utility of others (even if these others are invaders)?
In answer, we may state first that the free market is a society in which all exchange voluntarily. It may most easily be conceived as a situation in which no one aggresses against person or property. In that case, it is obvious that the utility of all is maximized on the free market. Defense agencies become necessary only as a defense against invasions of that market. It is the invader, not the existence of the defense agency, that inflicts losses on his fellowmen. A defense agency existing without an invader would simply be a voluntarily established insurance against attack. The existence of a defense agency does not violate the principle of maximum utility, and it still reflects mutual benefit to all concerned. Conflict enters only with the invader. The invader, let us say, is in the process of committing an aggressive act against Smith, thereby injuring Smith for his gain. The defense agency, rushing to the aid of Smith, of course, injures the invader’s utility; but it does so only to counteract the injury to Smith. It does help to maximize the utility of the noncriminals. The principle of conflict and loss of utility was introduced, not by the existence of the defense agency, but by the existence of the invader. It is still true, therefore, that utility is maximized for all on the free market; whereas to the extent that there is invasive interference in society, it is infected with conflict and exploitation of man by man.
D. The Argument from Envy
Another objection holds that the free market does not really increase the utility of all individuals, because some may be so smitten with envy at the success of others that they really lose in utility as a result. We cannot, however, deal with hypothetical utilities divorced from concrete action. We may, as praxeologists, deal only with utilities that we can deduce from the concrete behavior of human beings.[12] A person’s “envy,” unembodied in action, becomes pure moonshine from the praxeological point of view. All that we know is that he has participated in the free market and to that extent benefits by it. How he feels about the exchanges made by others cannot be demonstrated to us unless he commits an invasive act. Even if he publishes a pamphlet denouncing these exchanges, we have no ironclad proof that this is not a joke or a deliberate lie.
E. Utility Ex Post
We have thus seen that individuals maximize their utility ex ante on the free market and that the direct result of an invasion is that the invader’s utility gains at the expense of a loss in utility by his victim. But what about utilities ex post? People may expect to benefit when they make a decision, but do they actually benefit from its results? The remainder of this volume will largely consist of analysis of what we may call the “indirect” consequences of the market or of intervention, supplementing the above direct analysis. It will deal with chains of consequences that can be grasped only by study and are not immediately visible to the naked eye.
Error can always occur in the path from ante to post, but the free market is so constructed that this error is reduced to a minimum. In the first place, there is a fast-working, easily understandable test that tells the entrepreneur, as well as the income-receiver, whether he is succeeding or failing at the task of satisfying the desires of the consumer. For the entrepreneur, who carries the main burden of adjustment to uncertain consumer desires, the test is swift and sure—profits or losses. Large profits are a signal that he has been on the right track; losses, that he has been on a wrong one. Profits and losses thus spur rapid adjustments to consumer demands; at the same time, they perform the function of getting money out of the hands of the bad entrepreneurs and into the hands of the good ones. The fact that good entrepreneurs prosper and add to their capital, and poor ones are driven out, insures an ever smoother market adjustment to changes in conditions. Similarly, to a lesser extent, land and labor factors move in accordance with the desire of their owners for higher incomes, and more value-productive factors are rewarded accordingly.
Consumers also take entrepreneurial risks on the market. Many critics of the market, while willing to concede the expertise of the capitalist-entrepreneurs, bewail the prevailing ignorance of consumers, which prevents them from gaining the utility ex post that they expected to have ex ante. Typically, Wesley C. Mitchell entitled one of his famous essays: “The Backward Art of Spending Money.” Professor Ludwig von Mises has keenly pointed out the paradoxical position of so many “progressives” who insist that consumers are too ignorant or incompetent to buy products intelligently, while at the same time touting the virtues of democracy, where the same people vote for politicians whom they do not know and for policies that they hardly understand.
In fact, the truth is precisely the reverse of the popular ideology. Consumers are not omniscient, but they do have direct tests by which to acquire their knowledge. They buy a certain brand of breakfast food and they don’t like it; so they don’t buy it again. They buy a certain type of automobile and they do like its performance; so they buy another one. In both cases, they tell their friends of this newly won knowledge. Other consumers patronize consumers’ research organizations, which can warn or advise them in advance. But, in all cases, the consumers have the direct test of results to guide them. And the firm that satisfies the consumers expands and prospers, while the firm that fails to satisfy them goes out of business.
On the other hand, voting for politicians and public policies is a completely different matter. Here there are no direct tests of success or failure whatever, neither profits and losses nor enjoyable or unsatisfying consumption. In order to grasp consequences, especially the indirect consequences of governmental decisions, it is necessary to comprehend a complex chain of praxeological reasoning, such as will be developed in this volume. Very few voters have the ability or the interest to follow such reasoning, particularly, as Schumpeter points out, in political situations. For in political situations, the minute influence that any one person has on the results, as well as the seeming remoteness of the actions, induces people to lose interest in political problems or argumentation.[13] Lacking the direct test of success or failure, the voter tends to turn, not to those politicians whose measures have the best chance of success, but to those with the ability to “sell” their propaganda. Without grasping logical chains of deduction, the average voter will never be able to discover the error that the ruler makes. Thus, suppose that the government inflates the money supply, thereby causing an inevitable rise in prices. The government can blame the price rise on wicked speculators or alien black marketeers, and, unless the public knows economics, it will not be able to see the fallacies in the ruler’s arguments.
It is ironic that those writers who complain of the wiles and lures of advertising do not direct their criticism at the advertising of political campaigns, where their charges would be relevant. As Schumpeter states:
The picture of the prettiest girl that ever lived will in the long run prove powerless to maintain the sales of a bad cigarette. There is no equally effective safeguard in the case of political decisions. Many decisions of fateful importance are of a nature that makes it impossible for the public to experiment with them at its leisure and at moderate cost. Even if that is possible, however, judgment is as a rule not so easy to arrive at as it is in the case of the cigarette, because effects are less easy to interpret.[14]
It might be objected that, while the average voter may not be competent to decide on policies that require for his decision chains of praxeological reasoning, he is competent to pick the experts—the politicians and bureaucrats—who will decide on the issues, just as the individual may select his own private expert adviser in any one of numerous fields. But the point is precisely that in government the individual does not have the direct, personal test of success or failure for his hired expert that he does on the market. On the market, individuals tend to patronize those experts whose advice proves most successful. Good doctors or lawyers reap rewards on the free market, while the poor ones fail; the privately hired expert tends to flourish in proportion to his demonstrated ability. In government, on the other hand, there is no concrete test of the expert’s success. In the absence of such a test, there is no way by which the voter can gauge the true expertise of the man he must vote for. This difficulty is aggravated in modern-style elections, where the candidates agree on all the fundamental issues. For issues, after all, are susceptible to reasoning; the voter can, if he so wishes and he has the ability, learn about and decide on the issues. But what can any voter, even the most intelligent, know about the true expertise or competence of individual candidates, especially when elections are shorn of virtually all important issues? The voter can then fall back only on the purely external, packaged “personalities” or images of the candidates. The result is that voting purely on candidates makes the result even less rational than mass voting on the issues themselves.
Furthermore, the government itself contains inherent mechanisms that lead to poor choices of experts and officials. For one thing, the politician and the government expert receive their revenues, not from service voluntarily purchased on the market, but from a compulsory levy on the populace. These officials, therefore, wholly lack the pecuniary incentive to care about serving the public properly and competently. And, what is more, the vital criterion of “fitness” is very different in the government and on the market. In the market, the fittest are those most able to serve the consumers; in government, the fittest are those most adept at wielding coercion and/or those most adroit at making demagogic appeals to the voting public.
Another critical divergence between market action and democratic voting is this: the voter has, for example, only a 1/50 millionth power to choose among his would-be rulers, who in turn will make vital decisions affecting him, unchecked and unhampered until the next election. In the market, on the other hand, the individual has the absolute sovereign power to make the decisions concerning his person and property, not merely a distant, 1/50 millionth power. On the market the individual is continually demonstrating his choice of buying or not buying, selling or not selling, in the course of making absolute decisions regarding his property. The voter, by voting for some particular candidate, is demonstrating only a relative preference over one or two other potential rulers; he must do this within the framework of the coercive rule that, whether or not he votes at all, one of these men will rule over him for the next several years.[15]
Thus, we see that the free market contains a smooth, efficient mechanism for bringing anticipated, ex ante utility into the realization of ex post. The free market always maximizes ex ante social utility as well. In political action, on the contrary, there is no such mechanism; indeed, the political process inherently tends to delay and thwart the realization of any expected gains. Furthermore, the divergence between ex post gains through government and through the market is even greater than this; for we shall find that in every instance of government intervention, the indirect consequences will be such as to make the intervention appear worse in the eyes of many of its original supporters.
In sum, the free market always benefits every participant, and it maximizes social utility ex ante; it also tends to do so ex post, since it works for the rapid conversion of anticipations into realizations. With intervention, one group gains directly at the expense of another, and therefore social utility cannot be increased; the attainment of goals is blocked rather than facilitated; and, as we shall see, the indirect consequences are such that many interveners themselves will lose utility ex post. The remainder of this work is largely devoted to tracing the indirect consequences of various forms of governmental intervention.
[1]A person may receive gifts, but this is a unitary act of the giver, not involving an act of the receiver himself.
[2]See Franz Oppenheimer, The State (New York: Vanguard Press, 1914):
There are two fundamentally opposed means whereby man, requiring sustenance, is impelled to obtain the necessary means for satisfying his desires. These are work and robbery, one’s own labor and the forcible appropriation of the labor of others. . . . I propose . . . to call one’s own labor and the equivalent exchange of one’s own labor for the labor of others “the economic means” for the satisfaction of needs, while the unrequited appropriation of the labor of others will be called the “political means. . . . The state is an organization of the political means. (pp. 24–27)
See also Albert Jay Nock, Our Enemy, the State (Caldwell, Idaho: Caxton Printers, 1946), pp. 59–62; Frank Chodorov, The Economics of Society, Government, and the State (mimeographed MS., New York, 1946), pp. 64ff. On the State as engaging in permanent conquest, see ibid., pp. 13–16, 111–17, 136–40.
[3]This is to be inferred from, rather than discovered in explicit form in, their writings. As far as we know, no one has systematically categorized or analyzed types of intervention.
[4]A narrow view of “freedom” is characteristic in the present day. In the political lexicon of modern America, “left-wingers” often advocate freedom in the sense of opposition to autistic intervention, but look benignly on triangular intervention. “Right-wingers,” on the other hand, severely oppose triangular intervention, but tend to favor, or remain indifferent to, autistic intervention. Both groups are ambivalent toward binary intervention.
[5]“Castes” would be a better term than “classes” here. Classes are any collection of units with a certain property in common. There is no reason for them to conflict. Does the class of men named Jones necessarily conflict with the class of men named Smith? On the other hand, castes are State-made groups, each with its own set of violence-established privileges and tasks. Castes necessarily conflict because some are instituted to rule over the others.
[6]John C. Calhoun, A Disquisition on Government (New York: Liberal Arts Press, 1953), pp. 16–18. Calhoun, however, did not understand the harmony of interests on the free market.
[7]As Professor Lindsay Rogers has trenchantly written on the subject of public opinion:
Before Great Britain adopted conscription in 1939, only thirty-nine percent of the voters were for it; a week after the conscription bill became law, a poll showed that fifty-eight percent approved. Many polls in the United States have shown a similar inflation of support for a policy as soon as it is translated to the statute books or into a Presidential order. (Lindsay Rogers, “‘The Mind of America’ to the Fourth Decimal Place,” The Reporter, June 30, 1955, p. 44)
[8]This coercion would exist even in the most direct democracies. It is doubly compounded in representative republics, where the people never have a chance of voting on issues, but only on the men who rule them. They can only reject men—and this at very long intervals—and if the candidates have the same views on issues, the public cannot effect any sort of fundamental change.
[9]It is often stated that under “modern” conditions of destructive weapons, etc., a minority can tyrannize permanently over a majority. But this ignores the fact that these weapons can be held by the majority, or that agents of the minority can mutiny. The sheer absurdity, for example, of the current belief that a few million could really tyrannize over a few hundred million active resistants is not often realized. As David Hume profoundly stated:
Nothing appears more surprising . . . than the easiness with which the many are governed by the few and the implicit submission with which men resign their own sentiments and passions to those of their rulers. When we enquire by what means this wonder is effected, we shall find that because Force is always on the side of the governed, the governors have nothing to support them but opinion. It is, therefore, on opinion that government is founded; and this maxim extends to the most despotic and most military governments. (David Hume, Essays, Literary, Moral and Political [London, n.d.], p. 23)
See also Etienne de La Boétie, Anti-Dictator (New York: Columbia University Press, 1942), pp. 8–9. For an analysis of the types of opinion fostered by the State in order to obtain public support, see Bertrand de Jouvenel, On Power (New York: Viking Press, 1949).
[10]This analysis of majority support applies to any intervention of rather long standing, carried on frankly and openly, whether or not the groups are labeled “States.”
[11]See Calhoun, Disquisition on Government, pp. 14, 18–19, 23–33.
[12]Elsewhere, we have named this concept “demonstrated preference,” have traced its history, and have directed a critique against competing concepts. See Murray N. Rothbard, “Toward a Reconstruction of Utility and Welfare Economics” in Mary Sennholz, ed., On Freedom and Free Enterprise (Princeton, N.J.: D. Van Nostrand, 1956), pp. 224ff.
[13]Joseph A. Schumpeter, Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy (New York: Harper & Bros., 1942), pp. 258–60. See also Anthony Downs, “An Economic Theory of Political Action in a Democracy,” Journal of Political Economy, April, 1957, pp. 135–50.
[14]Schumpeter, Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy, p. 263.
[15]For a further discussion of these points, see Man, Economy, and State, pp. 886–91.
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This is something everyone should read and should be required in School in Economics classes and Government classes. While I disagree on privatized militaries, the rest is demonstrative of the wreckless nature of Government intervention into markets and any form of Government control, subsidies, and other intrusions.
You really have no clue about how the industrial countries developed, if there had ever been a free market with no goverment invention we'd all probably still be pursuing our comparative advantage trading fish, how did the industrial revolution happen? Not from a free market. It happened beacause of goverment protectionism through tariffs to protect the industries in their infancy.
To take a more current technology we're does the internet and computers come from? It's funded by public money developed at places like MIT then when it's been made profitable it's handed over to private interests for them to make money of it. The public takes the risks and the profit is handed to private interests. Let South Korean economist Ha Joon Chang explain how it works
Still not convinced have Noam Chomsky explain the Free Market Fantasies for you:
Its weird how the most outspoken proponents of universal health coverage are not Americans. We know that the rest of the world does it differently, but one could argue that the United States has gotten so far ahead of the rest of the world (economically speaking) because of our unique political system and ideas.
On August 18 2009 04:06 dontsaveme wrote: Its weird how the most outspoken proponents of universal health coverage are not Americans. We know that the rest of the world does it differently, but one could argue that the United States has gotten so far ahead of the rest of the world (economically speaking) because of our unique political system and ideas.
Good observation. Its easy for someone from another country to say in the abstract that "the US State" (whoever that is supposed to be) should "take care of its people" (who are apparently different from the "US State").
I'm not talking about the "common civilian". Every U.S. citizen has the opportunity (notwithstanding mental/health issues) to take care of themselves, and the less taxed/oppressed by the government we are, the better.
I'm not knocking Switzerland, they are the most politically stable in the world in that no one wants to blow them up.
I think most Americans would agree that we don't need our nanny (government) to take care of us.
What incentive do I have to be productive if the government gives me everything I need? They want power, not to help people (duh.).
On August 18 2009 04:09 Velr wrote: your far ahead?
In what? (please compare to france/germany/britain... you know the bunch ).
Please take examples that help the *common civilian* that puts the US ahead.
Follow the immigrants: are there more US citizens working in Germany/France/the UK, or more Germans/French/Brits in the US? We're not talking abstract arguments here, but people "voting with their feet".
Still not convinced have Noam Chomsky explain the Free Market Fantasies for you.
Smart guy in linguistics, not so much in economics / political science. Also, a known socialist.
As far as I can tell, the only justification in this post for giving no merit to the aforementioned people's ideas is bolded, and I find it hilarious when debates like this crop up and labels like Socialist and Fascist are tossed around as scare tactics to trick people into thinking they're inherently evil or something.
He studied under a Marxist economist?! Oh god, here comes Stalin. Noam Chomsky is a libertarian!? RUN.
On August 18 2009 04:56 arsonist wrote: As far as I can tell, the only justification in this post for giving no merit to the aforementioned people's ideas is bolded, and I find it hilarious when debates like this crop up and labels like Socialist and Fascist are tossed around as scare tactics to trick people into thinking they're inherently evil or something.
He studied under a Marxist economist?! Oh god, here comes Stalin. Noam Chomsky is a libertarian!? RUN.
My only point is this: the merit of an argument is weakened when you cite obscure and biased sources. Chomsky is very well known and respected, but mainly for his linguistic studies. + Show Spoiler +
I am not saying either of them is the next Stalin.
On August 18 2009 03:55 VegeTerran wrote: Let South Korean economist Ha Joon Chang explain how it works
Mr. Chang studied at Cambridge under Robert Rowthorn, a Marxist economist. BTW, economics is not SC, quoting Koreans will not get you that far.
Chang's contribution to heterodox economics started while studying under Robert Rowthorn, a leading British Marxist economist,[9] with whom he worked on the elaboration of the theory of industrial policy, a middle-way between central planning and the unrestrained free-market. His work in this area led to the elaboration of a broader approach to economics Chang calls institutionalist political economy which places economic history and socio-political factors at the centre of the evolution of economic practices.
Let's have the entire description shall we? A 'middle-way' doesn't sound that Marxist to me.
Still not convinced have Noam Chomsky explain the Free Market Fantasies for you.
Smart guy in linguistics, not so much in economics / political science. Also, a known socialist.
'Known socialist'? He calls himself a 'libertarian socialist' (which he regards as "the proper and natural extension of classical liberalism into the era of advanced industrial society."[13][Wiki]) and an anarchist. Also: Critical of the American capitalist system and big business, he describes himself as a libertarian socialist who sympathizes with anarcho-syndicalism and is also critical of Leninist branches of socialism.
Just because you oppose capitalism does not make you socialist..
Kwark, I read your long post, and frankly I find it to be quite frightening. I understand that on a collective level, it makes more sense to let an old man die than to neglect the health care of a hundred adolescents for the same cost. I get that. However, on an individual level, it's barbaric. If a man has the means to pay for an extension of his life or the life of a loved one, why does that need to go further than the parties directly involved? By intentionally refusing health care to someone, you strip them of their right to life as guaranteed by our basic founding US documents. Every family member wants to hear "we did everything we could" from the doctor of a loved one who has passed away, not "it just wouldn't be feasible, so the state has denied treatment."
On August 18 2009 04:56 arsonist wrote: As far as I can tell, the only justification in this post for giving no merit to the aforementioned people's ideas is bolded, and I find it hilarious when debates like this crop up and labels like Socialist and Fascist are tossed around as scare tactics to trick people into thinking they're inherently evil or something.
He studied under a Marxist economist?! Oh god, here comes Stalin. Noam Chomsky is a libertarian!? RUN.
My only point is this: the merit of an argument is weakened when you cite obscure and biased sources. Chomsky is very well known and respected, but mainly for his linguistic studies. + Show Spoiler +
I am not saying either of them is the next Stalin.
Actually, what Chomsky is principally known for is his considerable and unquestioned accomplishments in the field of + Show Spoiler +