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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_koreas_nuclear
SEOUL, South Korea – President Barack Obama assured Americans in an interview broadcast Monday that the U.S. is prepared for any move North Korea might make, amid reports that Pyongyang is planning a long-range missile test to follow up its provocative nuclear test last month.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered additional protection for Hawaii as a precaution, though experts say North Korea doesn't yet have a ballistic missile that can reach Hawaii and has not mastered mounting a nuclear bomb on a long-range missile.
Still, North Korea declared itself a "proud nuclear power" and warned it will strike if provoked.
"It would be a grave mistake for the U.S. to think it can remain unhurt if it ignites the fuse of war on the Korean peninsula," the country's main Rodong Sinmun said in a commentary.
(read the rest at the link)
I'm not sure about anyone else, but this is pretty worrisome stuff. Kim Jong II is fucking insane.
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Jesus Kim Jong II is nuts.
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On June 22 2009 11:49 uglymoose89 wrote:
Jesus Kim Jong II is nuts.
Nah, he just wants to show off his penis to the rest of the world.
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United States22883 Posts
He's not insane. He's just a liar, which political figures have been known to be.
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Many speculate that Kim Jong II is dying - since he has already appointed his successor, earlier than what he planned for (originally he planned to do so in 2012, the brithyear of his father). If Kim Jong II's health condition is true, then this is his effort to ensure North Korea to have a strong political position once the new leadership takes over.
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On June 22 2009 12:00 illu wrote:
Many speculate that Kim Jong II is dying - since he has already appointed his successor, earlier than what he planned for (originally he planned to do so in 2012, the brithyear of his father). If Kim Jong II's health condition is true, then this is his effort to ensure North Korea to have a strong political position once the new leadership takes over.
That, and I think due to his poor health conditions, hes well aware that his death is near and hes attempting to make some name for himself in his finals months/years or whatever.
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lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government.
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maybe kim jong il is already dead but the clone is still there to keep things running. and now, realistically, if kim jong il were alive, he'd be approaching death at his age. so he prolonged his "reign" as long as possible and has now appointed a successor.
sounds crazy, but with north korea, it's possible
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On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government.
I am absolutely speechless...
Do you have any idea what you are saying?
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On June 22 2009 12:36 eMbrace wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government. I am absolutely speechless... Do you have any idea what you are saying?
Well, whatever I said previously was from an interview with a Chinese analyst on North Korea issues, boardcasted on Chinese national television...
So, am I more biased now?
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On June 22 2009 12:39 illu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 12:36 eMbrace wrote:On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government. I am absolutely speechless... Do you have any idea what you are saying? Well, whatever I said previously was from an interview with a Chinese analyst on North Korea issues, boardcasted on Chinese national television... So, am I more biased now?
I wasn't quoting you...
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I am absolutely speechless...
Do you have any idea what you are saying?
I guess that's the strategy these days. Anyone that doesn't immediately believe what they are told by the TV or news is thought to be crazy or "unpatriotic". However, we have been lied to so many times before, that my position is perfectly reasonable. As I said, North Korea may well be a threat, but I can't be certain of it either way.
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LOL North Korea is like the bad manner noob of sc. Barks louder than has to show.
Stupid leader eats up an already piss-poor country's resources in nuclear research, possibly manages to make a few warheads and calls itself a "proud nuclear power"
I really loled at "proud nuclear power"
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On June 22 2009 12:45 2b-Rigtheous wrote:I guess that's the strategy these days. Anyone that doesn't immediately believe what they are told by the TV or news is thought to be crazy or "unpatriotic". However, we have been lied to so many times before, that my position is perfectly reasonable. As I said, North Korea may well be a threat, but I can't be certain of it either way.
the difference between North Korea and Iraq is that North Korea HAS recently launched both mid ranged and short ranged missiles into the Sea of Japan that have had the potential to carry a nuclear armament/payload. This coupled with the fact that Kim Jong Il has THREATENED, not just the United States, but the countries of the world with basically nuclear warfare pretty much proves what the United States says he's doing/saying. This isn't some high up intel that Obama is saying we've received, this is public information that Kim Jong Il has said and done these things.
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On June 22 2009 12:45 2b-Rigtheous wrote:I guess that's the strategy these days. Anyone that doesn't immediately believe what they are told by the TV or news is thought to be crazy or "unpatriotic". However, we have been lied to so many times before, that my position is perfectly reasonable. As I said, North Korea may well be a threat, but I can't be certain of it either way.
Let's go back to what you said before, you compared this situation with Iraqs, and you can't understand how we can believe this "trash," because Iraq wasn't really a threat.
Let's think for a second.
Situation A:
U.S.A: We think you have WMDs, here we come.
Situation B:
North Korea: We are a nuclear power and the world knows we have been testing our missiles, if you mess with us we will use this power against the U.S.
Hmmmmm, they are so similar aren't they?
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On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government.
So you are saying that the USA is just trying to start a war with a country that has been proven to actually have WMDs by saying that they have WMDs but that in actuality they don't and it is really a lie to go to war with them?
Yeah, Bush/Chaney lied about the WMDs so that we could go to war, but Iraq actually has something we need OIL!
There is no upside to fighting north korea.
Edit: The post above me explains this much more clearly
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On June 22 2009 12:45 2b-Rigtheous wrote:I guess that's the strategy these days. Anyone that doesn't immediately believe what they are told by the TV or news is thought to be crazy or "unpatriotic". However, we have been lied to so many times before, that my position is perfectly reasonable. As I said, North Korea may well be a threat, but I can't be certain of it either way.
North Korea's definitely abusing the media though. I highly doubt that North Korea's capability is anywhere near what they say they are at, but the media's portrayal of everything Kim Jong Il does blows everything up. Every time North Korea throws a hissy-fit, they want some sort of concession. This time, I think that he's creating a position where his son can be seen as the only one who has the ability to succeed him.
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I hate these threads, I always wish I had something to say but honestly; short of being a analysis for a national intelligence agency, totally informed opinions are non-existent. There really isn't anyway to prove the government isn't lying to you, it's like arguing about G-d.
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On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government.
That was bush era, we have obama now remember
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I know for a fact that North Korea will not do anything too crazy any time soon. How? They have recently qualified for the 2010 world cup.
They're gonna be legit for at least a year.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Dude, Kim Jong Il is crazy enough to say "Screw the soccer team, let's send out some nukes".
I wouldn't put it past the man.
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Heh, we have so many eyes focused on North Korea right now that if so much as a rickety raft made of sticks leaves the country out of place their entire country would be gone/invaded in a matter of seconds.
To put it another way, never doubt our ability to stop any sort of attack, ESPECIALLY from a country like North Korea. We have so many defenses stationed in so many locations that a missile launched from north Korea probably wouldn't even make it out of their country before being shot down with immediate action being taken against them the same day.
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On June 22 2009 12:45 2b-Rigtheous wrote:I guess that's the strategy these days. Anyone that doesn't immediately believe what they are told by the TV or news is thought to be crazy or "unpatriotic". However, we have been lied to so many times before, that my position is perfectly reasonable. As I said, North Korea may well be a threat, but I can't be certain of it either way.
I'm pretty sure the UN would back actions against NK this time seeing that even China and Russia are lining up against NK. This is the primary difference between the Iraq situation and the North Korean situation. US got largely scrutinized because they jumped the gun in going into Iraq, and their bluff ended up in a shitstorm. This time however, seeing as how even NK's closest "allies" have turned their back on N.Korea, the US/rest of the world would probably justify going in.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 22 2009 13:08 eMbrace wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 12:45 2b-Rigtheous wrote:I am absolutely speechless...
Do you have any idea what you are saying? I guess that's the strategy these days. Anyone that doesn't immediately believe what they are told by the TV or news is thought to be crazy or "unpatriotic". However, we have been lied to so many times before, that my position is perfectly reasonable. As I said, North Korea may well be a threat, but I can't be certain of it either way. Let's go back to what you said before, you compared this situation with Iraqs, and you can't understand how we can believe this "trash," because Iraq wasn't really a threat. Let's think for a second. Situation A: U.S.A: We think you have WMDs, here we come. Situation B: North Korea: We are a nuclear power and the world knows we have been testing our missiles, if you mess with us we will use this power against the U.S. Hmmmmm, they are so similar aren't they?
Your a asshole. A country isn't suppose to invade another country because they have " oil. "
Ever since the announcements of gtfo'ing of Iraq oil prices have gone down by A LOT.
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On June 22 2009 13:58 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 13:08 eMbrace wrote:On June 22 2009 12:45 2b-Rigtheous wrote:I am absolutely speechless...
Do you have any idea what you are saying? I guess that's the strategy these days. Anyone that doesn't immediately believe what they are told by the TV or news is thought to be crazy or "unpatriotic". However, we have been lied to so many times before, that my position is perfectly reasonable. As I said, North Korea may well be a threat, but I can't be certain of it either way. Let's go back to what you said before, you compared this situation with Iraqs, and you can't understand how we can believe this "trash," because Iraq wasn't really a threat. Let's think for a second. Situation A: U.S.A: We think you have WMDs, here we come. Situation B: North Korea: We are a nuclear power and the world knows we have been testing our missiles, if you mess with us we will use this power against the U.S. Hmmmmm, they are so similar aren't they? Your a asshole. A country isn't suppose to invade another country because they have " oil. " Ever since the announcements of gtfo'ing of Iraq oil prices have gone down by A LOT.
When did I every say I supported the U.S's decision to invade Iraq? I was merely comparing situations.
Thanks for insulting me based on your reading comprehension failure.
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United States43188 Posts
On June 22 2009 12:45 2b-Rigtheous wrote:I guess that's the strategy these days. Anyone that doesn't immediately believe what they are told by the TV or news is thought to be crazy or "unpatriotic". However, we have been lied to so many times before, that my position is perfectly reasonable. As I said, North Korea may well be a threat, but I can't be certain of it either way.
People believed Iraq had WMDs, Korea blows up mountains. The quakes were felt on seismographs around the world. Either they had an awful lot of dynamite they didn't want anymore or they were nuclear testing. It's not a issue where there is any disagreement.
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United States13896 Posts
Personally I'm getting really tired of the North Korea threads every 3 weeks. Yeah Kim Jong Il is nuts, yeah it sucks they've got nuclear capabilities, but every time they open their giant yapper I really don't want to hear it anymore.
The fact that they have nukes means we have to watch them closely, but this international punk talk is pretty much par for the course for them and barely newsworthy at this point.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 22 2009 14:02 eMbrace wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 13:58 Clasic wrote:On June 22 2009 13:08 eMbrace wrote:On June 22 2009 12:45 2b-Rigtheous wrote:I am absolutely speechless...
Do you have any idea what you are saying? I guess that's the strategy these days. Anyone that doesn't immediately believe what they are told by the TV or news is thought to be crazy or "unpatriotic". However, we have been lied to so many times before, that my position is perfectly reasonable. As I said, North Korea may well be a threat, but I can't be certain of it either way. Let's go back to what you said before, you compared this situation with Iraqs, and you can't understand how we can believe this "trash," because Iraq wasn't really a threat. Let's think for a second. Situation A: U.S.A: We think you have WMDs, here we come. Situation B: North Korea: We are a nuclear power and the world knows we have been testing our missiles, if you mess with us we will use this power against the U.S. Hmmmmm, they are so similar aren't they? Your a asshole. A country isn't suppose to invade another country because they have " oil. " Ever since the announcements of gtfo'ing of Iraq oil prices have gone down by A LOT. When did I every say I supported the U.S's decision to invade Iraq? I was merely comparing situations. Thanks for insulting me based on your reading comprehension failure.
My bad haha, wrong quote -_-.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 22 2009 13:10 Trezeguet23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government. So you are saying that the USA is just trying to start a war with a country that has been proven to actually have WMDs by saying that they have WMDs but that in actuality they don't and it is really a lie to go to war with them? Yeah, Bush/Chaney lied about the WMDs so that we could go to war, but Iraq actually has something we need OIL! There is no upside to fighting north korea. Edit: The post above me explains this much more clearly
You are the douche.
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I would think that a country attacking any other country would cause shit to hit the fan, how is him saying it any different? I thought it was a given that if someone gets attacked they are gonna fight back.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
Embrace, I'm really sorry lol. I shoulda been more careful with my quotes. It was entirely my fault and I'm sorry 
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United States3824 Posts
Remember, when the missiles start flying from North Korea the safest place to be is where they are aiming at.
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On June 22 2009 14:12 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 13:10 Trezeguet23 wrote:On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government. So you are saying that the USA is just trying to start a war with a country that has been proven to actually have WMDs by saying that they have WMDs but that in actuality they don't and it is really a lie to go to war with them? Yeah, Bush/Chaney lied about the WMDs so that we could go to war, but Iraq actually has something we need OIL! There is no upside to fighting north korea. Edit: The post above me explains this much more clearly You are the douche.
Clasic you don't understand what he is saying. He isn't saying that it was right that the U.S went to war for oil, he is saying they did, and that there is no similar motive to lie about a WMD in North Korea. Read more carefully before you start insulting people please.
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On June 22 2009 14:16 Clasic wrote:Embrace, I'm really sorry lol. I shoulda been more careful with my quotes. It was entirely my fault and I'm sorry
It's all good bro
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On June 22 2009 14:18 ShaperofDreams wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 14:12 Clasic wrote:On June 22 2009 13:10 Trezeguet23 wrote:On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government. So you are saying that the USA is just trying to start a war with a country that has been proven to actually have WMDs by saying that they have WMDs but that in actuality they don't and it is really a lie to go to war with them? Yeah, Bush/Chaney lied about the WMDs so that we could go to war, but Iraq actually has something we need OIL! There is no upside to fighting north korea. Edit: The post above me explains this much more clearly You are the douche. Clasic you don't understand what he is saying. He isn't saying that it was right that the U.S went to war for oil, he is saying they did, and that there is no similar motive to lie about a WMD in North Korea. Read more carefully before you start insulting people please.
Thanks, assuming classic misunderstood me, it is probably my own fault for not clarifying and being vague.
Edit: I was saying exactly what embrace was saying. Not that it was ok to turn Iraq in a huge disaster via our money grubbing desires, but just showing that the misinformation surrounding Iraq is completely different than this situation.
Classic, thanks for calling me an asshole and a douche, you sure are charming.
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On June 22 2009 14:18 cgrinker wrote:
Remember, when the missiles start flying from North Korea the safest place to be is where they are aiming at.
lolol awesome.
But seriously, North Korea sucks. YES they have nukes, yes they have threatened to use them. But last time I checked there missile ranges are roughly equivalent to a medieval catapult-- They suck. I highly doubt within the last year they have developed their missiles to the point they can shoot more then 20 miles. North Korea is a giant fucking baby and needs to shut the fuck up, we honestly don't want to hear it. We have the ability to stop a missile shot at us, however there is a better chance of them accidentally Chernobyling themselves then actually hitting any part of the United States with anything.
And to the morons comparing Iraq to this NK shit, its nothing alike at all. To summarize it quick.
The world hates NK and recognizes Kim Jong Il as a certified dipshit. Iraq was just kind of chillin' at the time. The US went into Iraq on some half cocked "misinformation" most likely just greed.
Yeah, we wanted the fucking Oil, who cares? If we don't control the oil you become OPEC's bitch, deal with it. Sure it was a waste of time and resources and no one really liked the shit we pulled, but it doesn't matter at this point, does it? What is done is done.
And in response to some post about the US not benefiting from beating the shit out of NK Korea, you are wrong. If NK becomes powerless and without threats that region of the world is relatively calm. They are the assholes who like to dick it up in that region, then all we have left is Iran who will hopefully revolution, but who the hell knows whats going on there, but we can focus on any issues.
With NK having no power or crying river powers, South Korean, Japan, and whatever other allies we have in that region will be happy and look in our favor, not to mention rest of the world who gets annoyed at NK's bullshit.
But yeah, this NK shit ALWAYS get blown out of proportion. I think it has more to do with the media seeing it as a profitable and good story to run because it garners a lot of attention as opposed to a misinformation campaign from the White House.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 22 2009 14:18 ShaperofDreams wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 14:12 Clasic wrote:On June 22 2009 13:10 Trezeguet23 wrote:On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government. So you are saying that the USA is just trying to start a war with a country that has been proven to actually have WMDs by saying that they have WMDs but that in actuality they don't and it is really a lie to go to war with them? Yeah, Bush/Chaney lied about the WMDs so that we could go to war, but Iraq actually has something we need OIL! There is no upside to fighting north korea. Edit: The post above me explains this much more clearly You are the douche. Clasic you don't understand what he is saying. He isn't saying that it was right that the U.S went to war for oil, he is saying they did, and that there is no similar motive to lie about a WMD in North Korea. Read more carefully before you start insulting people please.
.. Oh.
I did read it carefully.
I just didn't understand his semi-sarcasticness. naw mean?
Edit :
Brb gona cut my wrist.
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On June 22 2009 14:39 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 14:18 ShaperofDreams wrote:On June 22 2009 14:12 Clasic wrote:On June 22 2009 13:10 Trezeguet23 wrote:On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government. So you are saying that the USA is just trying to start a war with a country that has been proven to actually have WMDs by saying that they have WMDs but that in actuality they don't and it is really a lie to go to war with them? Yeah, Bush/Chaney lied about the WMDs so that we could go to war, but Iraq actually has something we need OIL! There is no upside to fighting north korea. Edit: The post above me explains this much more clearly You are the douche. Clasic you don't understand what he is saying. He isn't saying that it was right that the U.S went to war for oil, he is saying they did, and that there is no similar motive to lie about a WMD in North Korea. Read more carefully before you start insulting people please. .. Oh. I did read it carefully. I just didn't understand his semi-sarcasticness. naw mean? Edit : Brb gona cut my wrist.
*offers olive branch*
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On June 22 2009 14:18 cgrinker wrote:
Remember, when the missiles start flying from North Korea the safest place to be is where they are aiming at.
oh my that was hilarious
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On June 22 2009 14:10 p4NDemik wrote:
Personally I'm getting really tired of the North Korea threads every 3 weeks. Yeah Kim Jong Il is nuts, yeah it sucks they've got nuclear capabilities, but every time they open their giant yapper I really don't want to hear it anymore.
The fact that they have nukes means we have to watch them closely, but this international punk talk is pretty much par for the course for them and barely newsworthy at this point.
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On June 22 2009 14:10 p4NDemik wrote:
Personally I'm getting really tired of the North Korea threads every 3 weeks. Yeah Kim Jong Il is nuts, yeah it sucks they've got nuclear capabilities, but every time they open their giant yapper I really don't want to hear it anymore.
The fact that they have nukes means we have to watch them closely, but this international punk talk is pretty much par for the course for them and barely newsworthy at this point.
I would suggest you not open the thread and read it then. Surprisingly, that option is very much open.
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Its cool. Next to the USA, NK is the second most media frenzied nation. Let them talk so we can deal with our shady shit while the media looks the other way.
>_>
I'm kidding of course. The only answer to this whole dilemma is if China just slapped them and said no more. The USA really can't do anything. China doesn't want our army there and Seoul would become rubble if we tried any invasion on N.Korea.
All we can do realistically is write really mean letters.
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We have way too many threads about North Korea popping out in these forums, im sure everyone notices it too.
To put it simply, NK is just the biggest fucking drama-queen in the international community; regularly making provocative statements and everyone knows they aren't going to do half the shit they say they're going to do, and as many people have said already, there's so much skepticism about NKs actual technological capabilities to do the damage they threatened us with.
Things are so much different between NK vs the world compared to a decade or two ago. There's way too many economic ties between the US and countries such as China and Russia for either to back NK if war was to actually go down. If NK doesn't realize that, they're just INCREDIBLY stupid^999
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 22 2009 15:23 BlueRoyaL wrote:
We have way too many threads about North Korea popping out in these forums, im sure everyone notices it too.
To put it simply, NK is just the biggest fucking drama-queen in the international community; regularly making provocative statements and everyone knows they aren't going to do half the shit they say they're going to do, and as many people have said already, there's so much skepticism about NKs actual technological capabilities to do the damage they threatened us with.
Things are so much different between NK vs the world compared to a decade or two ago. There's way too many economic ties between the US and countries such as China and Russia for either to back NK if war was to actually go down. If NK doesn't realize that, they're just INCREDIBLY stupid^999
Ya, NK is like the Kim Kardashian of country's.
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On June 22 2009 13:30 BalliSLife wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government. That was bush era, we have obama now remember
because obama is all about the economy, the entirely war driven econonmy, oshi-
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United States5262 Posts
They say Kim Jong Il is way better and smarter than his father Kim Il Sung. KJI is wreaking more havoc in the international community with FAR less resources.
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
My mum is really worried about me getting blown up during whatever ensues/doesn't ensue. Actually tbh I am more interested in the idea of becoming a conflict photographer (although the prospect of anyone else/myself getting hurt does not appeal at all obviously.) If anything happened you can guarantee I would be probably the only British person *not* running for her embassy. (Our Korean embassy sucks anyway.)
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On June 22 2009 12:36 eMbrace wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government. I am absolutely speechless... Do you have any idea what you are saying?
The same thing the US said about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction?
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On June 22 2009 13:10 Trezeguet23 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government. So you are saying that the USA is just trying to start a war with a country that has been proven to actually have WMDs by saying that they have WMDs but that in actuality they don't and it is really a lie to go to war with them? Yeah, Bush/Chaney lied about the WMDs so that we could go to war, but Iraq actually has something we need OIL! There is no upside to fighting north korea. Edit: The post above me explains this much more clearly
Oh yeah because America never had a problem with communism...
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On June 22 2009 21:46 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2009 13:10 Trezeguet23 wrote:On June 22 2009 12:23 2b-Rigtheous wrote:
lol. You guys actually believe this trash? Short-term memory is amazing. Do you remember what happened with Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction"? How do you know it isn't any different this time? Because the Government said so? North Korea may well be a threat, but I highly doubt it. I also have no reason to trust the Government. So you are saying that the USA is just trying to start a war with a country that has been proven to actually have WMDs by saying that they have WMDs but that in actuality they don't and it is really a lie to go to war with them? Yeah, Bush/Chaney lied about the WMDs so that we could go to war, but Iraq actually has something we need OIL! There is no upside to fighting north korea. Edit: The post above me explains this much more clearly Oh yeah because America never had a problem with communism...
Waiting yerr to invade Skandinavia. 2020´s perhaps ?
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where is park jun suk when we need him
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It's really hard to tell how much offensive potential NK possesses. And if it does have enough, it's equally hard to tell if Kim Jong Il is willing to use it. Of course rationally he wouldn't, because NK has no chance of winning such a war. Some say he's crazy and wants to go down with a bang, but that could just be propaganda and noone can know for sure. One has to rely on the information which secret services and military release, which is not a comfortable position to be in.
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North Korea, like many third-world contries is a state built on collective indoctrination in memories of foreign oppression, heroic resistance, national liberation, independence and self-determination. There exists in the domestic imagination a manichean dualism of good and evil, resistance and oppression, democracy and imperialism, with North Korea representing the former and Japan and America representing the latter.
Whether the North Korean leadership believes its own historiographical interpretation is a mystery, but there is no doubt that the majority of the North Korean public believes it. Their entire history has taught them that oppressors cannot be negotiated with, for their ultimate aims are the subjugation of their country. The only appropriate response to bullying is resistance. The leadership, by the very virtue of the domestic propaganda they have initiated, is obliged to play the role of the heroic state, standing up to a sinister, malevolent foe.
Aggressive posturing is therefore unlikely to be for the sole benefit of the international community; it characterizes the entire identity-heritage of the country. This posture may seem erratic and even mad in face of international realities, but it may also very well conform to the internal, domestic logic of the North Korean state. The more aggressive international pressures become, the more the North Korean leadership will be compelled to show to their own country that they will not be cowed into submission. So long as there is little actual danger to the regime, exaggerating the potential dangers of external aggression for domestic consumption may fortify North Korean identity, unity and political stability at a relatively small expense.
I hasten to add that North Korea is not the only state in the world to suffer from some of the aforementioned shortcomings.
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Oh and in one those articles that someone linked to, some arms-watch rights group said that NK had mustard gas, sarin and other biological weapons too...kinda scary
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I think the United States should have just went on N. Korea a long time ago. Does anyone remember WW2? When Germany did whatever it felt liked? Yeah, it feels like that, but with nukes. Before someone takes me out of context and tries to do a history lesson with me. All I'm saying is when countries are acting up you should stop them in their tracks, and make them examples.
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On June 22 2009 22:29 JudgeMathis wrote:
I think the United States should have just went on N. Korea a long time ago. Does anyone remember WW2? When Germany did whatever it felt liked? Yeah, it feels like that, but with nukes. Before someone takes me out of context and tries to do a history lesson with me. All I'm saying is when countries are acting up you should stop them in their tracks, and make them examples.
A doctrinal approach to foreign policy is very dangerous. That is why people need to read history very carefully, to see that most situations are complex and ambiguous, and that no two situations are exactly the same.
In particular, taking isolated examples are moral paradigms are hazardous by your own example: By the 1930s, the leadership of the West, particularly in Britain and America, began to reinterpret the origins of the First of War not as the consequence of unique German malevolence, but as a series of misunderstandings and misconceptions held by all erratic parties. The wasteful slaughter of 1914-1918 could have been avoided had calmer heads prevailed in July-August 1914 and political moderation exercised. This view was decisive to the psychology of British foreign policy between 1934 and 1939.
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I really believe that It will turn out good, Obama seems a very wise guy, and wise as he might be, would like to change they way other countries (those so called 3rd world countries) think about the United States, doing so he'll avoid as much as possible any conflict like those.
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So why can't we just do a conventional air strike on his missile facilities?
I mean its pretty much a direct threat to America's security, and no/few civilians need be harmed
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GL SK
hope you can go through that shit and be re-united with NK one day..
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On June 23 2009 22:50 fusionsdf wrote:
So why can't we just do a conventional air strike on his missile facilities?
I mean its pretty much a direct threat to America's security, and no/few civilians need be harmed
How are we supposed to know where their nukes are? Not like we have satellites that can see underground.
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N. Korea's leader is pretty self-conscious about himself. There's no chance that he'll nuke the US since we'll just nuke them back and basically kill the country in that case. Unless he goes crazy.
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EPT
