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Iranian protests - Page 14

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{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-16 01:28:24
June 16 2009 01:21 GMT
#261
Twitter is awfully quiet...

edit: some of the most vocal twitters haven't update in 5-15 hours.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Last Romantic
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States20661 Posts
June 16 2009 02:57 GMT
#262
Props to twitter for actually delaying their site maintenance.
ㅋㄲㅈㅁ
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-16 03:21:07
June 16 2009 03:19 GMT
#263
Possibility of being NSFW
http://www.aworldwithoutspin.com/?p=505


Also Twittering back.

We shouldn't let even one embassy or consulate to be closed. Defend strategic places by all means. #IranElection


Hearing rumors about Basij's plans to attack to some consulates & embassies in Tehran to disturb protester's face. Do not let them do this.


Hey government, geeks are back! Do not even think about touching Twitter! #IranElection
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
broz0rs
Profile Joined July 2008
United States2294 Posts
June 16 2009 03:50 GMT
#264
what i'm confused with this whole situation is what the Iranian people are thinking.

Basically, they're angered at the vote fraud, but this anger is directed at Ahmadinejad. Why do they feel that Ahmadinejad have the powers to rig the votes?


Last Romantic
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States20661 Posts
June 16 2009 03:59 GMT
#265
Because the people who were reporting the election results report directly to Ahmedinejad + co. It's like the RNC counting votes for an American national election. [Not really, but roughly analogous].
ㅋㄲㅈㅁ
Railz
Profile Joined July 2008
United States1449 Posts
June 16 2009 04:11 GMT
#266
After seeing some of the videos of the broken dorm rooms coupled with twitter being oddly quiet when Twitter gave them the up-time they wanted kind of worries me.
Did the whole world just get a lot smaller and go whooosh?_-` Number 0ne By.Fantasy Fanatic!
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 16 2009 05:24 GMT
#267
Iran State Radio confirming 7 killed @ rally.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
June 16 2009 05:53 GMT
#268
Seven people were killed when a military post was attacked near a rally held a day ago in Tehran to protest the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, radio Payam announced.

"Several thugs wanted to attack a military post and vandalise public property in the vicinity of Azadi Square," the radio said referring to the site of the rally held on Monday.

"Unfortunately seven people were killed and several others wounded in the incident."

However, a source told AFP that the emergency services department had information that eight people were killed and several wounded in the incident.
:O
chobopeon
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States7342 Posts
June 16 2009 06:37 GMT
#269
On Facebook, Iranians are asking the South Koreans to wear green for the Iran Korea World cup qualifying game on June 17th in Korea, as a show of support for Iranian people.

I know some of you live there or know people there or know forums where you might be able to post about it. That place should be a fuckin' sea of green. In the words of all of the old SC greatest game ever polls - SOMEONE TELL THE KOREANS!

:O
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-16 06:57:18
June 16 2009 06:56 GMT
#270
https://twitter.com/Change_for_Iran

No update for almost 24 hours, getting worried. He was updating from the University while it was besieged and a friend was badly wounded. Either he was arrested, or can't access a computer due to the guards destroying them, or worse.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
June 16 2009 08:58 GMT
#271
On June 16 2009 15:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/Change_for_Iran

No update for almost 24 hours, getting worried. He was updating from the University while it was besieged and a friend was badly wounded. Either he was arrested, or can't access a computer due to the guards destroying them, or worse.
Not sure if you missed it, but he clearly says he was going to a Mousavi rally and wouldn't update twitter until he got back. So maybe it's just taking long to get the rally together and going.
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 16 2009 09:01 GMT
#272
On June 16 2009 17:58 VIB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2009 15:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/Change_for_Iran

No update for almost 24 hours, getting worried. He was updating from the University while it was besieged and a friend was badly wounded. Either he was arrested, or can't access a computer due to the guards destroying them, or worse.
Not sure if you missed it, but he clearly says he was going to a Mousavi rally and wouldn't update twitter until he got back. So maybe it's just taking long to get the rally together and going.


The Mousavi rally was yesterday though. Other students who were there are already updating.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-16 09:06:59
June 16 2009 09:05 GMT
#273
Also expect another rally it is suppose to happen around 4 hours apparently.

Everybody's resting to be fresh for this afternoon. Less than 5 hours to the rally. #IranElection


Two tricks: 1- Recounting is to disperse the unity of people. 2- 16:00 rally's national TV noise is to count them as Basijis. #IranElection


All 3 candidates have complained about campaigning, polling, voting, counting, & supervising. Now they only want to recount! #IranElection


Basij is planning a fake rally in Vali Asr around 3:00 PM. Everybody should attend our rally on 5:00 PM to deride them. #IranElection
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
June 16 2009 09:13 GMT
#274
Obama saying he supports the protesters and wants to help the issue peacefully, diplomatically, and leave it for the iranian people to choose their leader:

"We will continue to pursue a tough, direct dialogue between our two countries, and we'll see where it takes us. But even as we do so, I think it would be wrong for me to be silent about what we've seen on the television over the last few days. And what I would say to those people who put so much hope and energy and optimism into the political process, I would say to them that the world is watching and inspired by their participation, regardless of what the ultimate outcome of the election was. And they should know that the world is watching.

And particularly to the youth of Iran, I want them to know that we in the United States do not want to make any decisions for the Iranians, but we do believe that the Iranian people and their voices should be heard and respected."
- http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/The-President-Meets-with-Prime-Minister-Berlusconi-Comments-on-Iran/
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
Pika Chu
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Romania2510 Posts
June 16 2009 10:15 GMT
#275
Ahmadinejad was in Russia for a local summit (Shanghai Cooperation Organization) yesterday. He did speak nothing about the current situation in Iran.

Also, during the summit China said they will give a 10$ billion to Russia and 4 asian states, one of them which is Iran.
They first ignore you. After they laugh at you. Next they will fight you. In the end you will win.
[-Bluewolf-]
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States609 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-16 15:29:10
June 16 2009 14:04 GMT
#276
To summarize things and add the latest, click the spoiler. I'll also source what I can from this if I have time and someone wants confirmation.

+ Show Spoiler +

Suppression of Dissent - The Players

Currently, there are either two or three groups who are suppressing the students on the ground that you'll read about throughout this thread:

1. The Basij
2. Ansar Hizbullah (which I will refer to as Ansar)
3. Lebanese Hizbullah (Unconfirmed but highly probable. Der Spiegel, based on a Voice of America report, says that 5,000 Hizbullah fighters are currently in Iran masquerading as riot police, confirming the independent reports. Many different independent reports and video point that way. Even in the last hours other independent twitter feeds have declared witnessing thugs beating on people while shouting in Arabic; I will refer to them as Hizbullah)

- The Basij are your regular paramilitary organization. They are the armed hand of the clerics. The Basij are a legal group, officially a student union, and are legally under direct orders of the Revolutionary Guard. Their main raison d'être is to quell dissent. They are the ones who go and crack skulls, force people to participate in pro-regime demonstrations, and generally try to stop any demonstrations from even starting. They are located throughout the country, in every mosque, every university, every social club you can think of. They function in a way very similar to the brownshirts.

They were the ones who first started the crackdown after the election, but it wasn't enough. While they are violent and repressive, they are still Persian and attacking fellow citizens. A beating is one thing, mass killings another.

- Another group was working with them, whose members are even more extreme, is Ansar. There is a lot of cross-membership between the Basij and Ansar, though not all are members of the other group and vice-versa. The vast majority of Ansar are Persians (either Basij or ex-military), though a lot of Arab recruits come from Lebanon and train with them under supervision of the Revolutionary Guard. They are not functioning under a legal umbrella, they are considered a vigilante group, but they pledge loyalty directly to the Supreme Leader and most people believe that they are under his control. They are currently helping the Basij to control the riots, but due to the fact that they are Persians and in lower numbers than the Basij, they are not that active.

- The Lebanese Hizbullah is a direct offshoot (and under direct control) of the Iranian Hizbullah (itself under direct control of the Supreme Leader) and cooperates closely with Ansar though Ansar occupies itself only with Iran's domestic policies, while Hizbullah occupies itself only with Iran's foreign policy unless there is a crisis like right now. However, Hizbullah has been called to stop violent riots in Iran in the past.

(the following paragraph includes some speculation based on reports from ground zero) Hizbullah flew in a lot of their members in Iran, most likely a good deal even before the elections in case there were trouble. They are the ones who speak Arabs and are unleashing the biggest level of violence on the Persians so far. Another wave arrived recently and there is chatter that yet another wave of Hizbullah reinforcements are coming in from Lebanon as we speak. According to Iranians on the ground, they are the ones riding motorcycles, beating men women and children indiscriminately and firing live ammunitions at students.

What will happen

Unless the army decides to intervene in the favor of the Council and to stop the early beginnings of the new Revolution, Ansar & Hizbullah members will be the ones doing the brunt of the killing and repression with Basij as a support while also protecting government buildings and try to do crowd control. The police seems to have for the most part disbanded in centers like Tehran according to all reports, including international media. If the police decides to come back, they will focus less on protection and crowd control, so the Basij will start to crack more skulls).

Currently, this is what is happening.


Timeline (updated and revamped!)
note: I built this through both articles and twitter feeds, so I do not claim that this is a 100% factually correct representation of reality, but this is the general narrative.

14th of June - While the previous day had been witness to some protests, they were for the most part peaceful. However, as time grew the protests turned more and more violent. When the first spontaneous riots erupted, the first wave of violence was unleashed. The Iranian Riot Police was called in to support the regular police officers controlling the protests, and shortly after the Basij also took the scene, moving from a passive to active role of repression. The RP concentrated mostly around public buildings and streets while the Basij took position around student groups, especiallly universities.

- As things got more out of hand, more and more Basij troops were called in, as the police started dispersing. The riot police are less inclined (or, rather I should say the Basij are more inclined) to use violence so they retreated and leaving the place to the Basij. The repressive forces concentrated their assault mostly around the main Iranian universities, while the riot police were concentrating on protecting various government buildings such as the Interior Ministry. At least two people had been killed already.

- On the telecommunication front, this is when we started to hear more and more from twitters while videos were being freely updated to youtube (while youtube started to delete the more violent ones a few hours later). This is also the moment where the government realized what was happening, and ordered for the internet, phone lines and cellphones to be cut off, in order to avoid people communicating with the outside world.

late 14th, early 15th of June - This is the second wave of violent repression. At this point, violent riots had spread all over the main cities of Iran. The violence against citizens was not only the fruit of the Basij anymore, but also came from Ansar Hizbullah members. This is the point where firearms started being used. There were reports of a few murders but it was mostly fired in the air or on walls in order to scare away protesters in University dorms. It's also around the same time that the first reports and videos of an important number of non-Persian thugs shouting in Arabic and violently beating people with chains, clubs and electric batons (similar to cattle prods), which led to many speculating that lebanese Hizbullah members were now in Iran. Der Spiegel, through Voice of America, later claimed that 5000 Hizbullah fighters were passing off as Riot Police, validating the claims of many independent sources and twitter feeds.

- Universities have been the hotbed of protests, serving as a hub of anti-government demonstrations and preparations. 120 teachers from the Sharid University resigned in protest over the election results. Perfectly away of this, the Basij, Ansar and possibly Hizbullah members concentrated their attacks on University Dorms all over the country, storming them and beating students, destroying everything, especially computers.

- The end of the second wave came right before the beginning of the current manifestation. Things were getting quieter with only sporadic reports of dissenters being assaulted. Important to note: at this time. the Supreme Leader authorized the plainclothes militias to use live ammunition against the crowd if things were to get out of hands. By the end of the first two waves of protests, hundreds of people had been arrested.

midday, 15th of June - This brings us to the third wave, which just began around 12:30PM for those of us on the East Coast. Plainclothes militia opened fire on civilians protesting peacefully. Possibly up to 2 million protesters took the street. Chaos erupted in the streets, with reports of fighting all over Tehran and spreading over Iran as the news circulated. Pictures of people shot, some to death, finally surfaced and were published in the mainstream media. Violent and murderous repression has started. At least a twenty people had been killed at this by the end of the 15th of June.

- There is a major national crackdown on students, especially those with connections to the outside world going on right now. Students are fighting back in some areas. Telephones are being bugged and everyone twittering and sending videos outside of Iran are being rounded up. ISPs were shut down, government hackers are threatening people who twitter, and some of them have vanished in the last 24 hours.

- Eventually, the people started to fight back. First, they took over and burned down a Basij base, killing its commander. Later, a Basij shot a young man in the face in front of their HQ, at which point a policeman went to confront them. The Basij beat the policeman, at which point students stormed the compound, throwing molotov cocktails, burning it to the ground.

- During the night, the police entered certain neighbourhood to arrest public servants and force them to appear at tomorrow's pro-Ahmadinejad manifestation, but the people went out in the street and forced them out of their neighbourhoods. The Basij have kept on storming dorms. So far the reports are conflicting, but it appears that the death toll could be as high as 40 for the protesters, with two dead on the side of the repressive militias. This is the end of the third wave.

16th of June - Supporters of Moussavi have a manifestation planned for 5pm, Tehran time. Roughly the same number or more is expected to attend. People are dressed in black and told to protest silently.

- The pro-Ahmadinejad crowd however are planning a counter-demonstration at the very same place the supporters are supposed to gather at 3pm. Most agree that basically they are simply going to gather for a confrontation. Rumours are that they are taking position in buildings next to the parade and in bunkers to attack. Basij from all over the country are moving to Tehran and supporters are being bused from all over the country. A major showdown is expected to unfold.

- The crackdown on people using telecommunication is as strong as ever. Anyone with a laptop, camera or cellphone is attacked in the street by plainclothes militias. Tehran hotels are under lockdown to prevent the members of the foreign press not yet expulsed from reporting what is happening.

- As for the Iranian Government and different branches, there are rumours that many Army Generals have been arrested for plotting a Coup d'État, but this is still speculation at this point. The Supreme Leader has also called for a 10-day inquiry into the claims of fraud, but it has been widely dismissed as cosmetic. Moussavi and his supporters have rejected this, claiming that they want new elections. Khameini is now using the armed Basij as his own bodyguards, hundreds of them are surround him and his residence to protect from attempted assassinations. Ahmadinejad himself is in Russia right now, for a planned visit, and tries to pretend that everything is good as usual.

- The fourth wave of violence has yet to start, but it is expected to flare up once the Basij and Supporters see each others at Valli Asr, most likely attacked without provocation once again.

The Revolution lives on.

Demands from the protesters

1. Dismissal of Khamenei for not being a fair leader
2. Dismissal of Ahmadinejad for his illegal acts
3. Temporary appointment of Ayatollah Montazeri as the Supreme Leader
4. Recognition of Mousavi as the President
5. Forming the Cabinet by Mousavi to prepare for revising the Constitution
6. unconditional and immediate release of all political prisoners
7. Dissolution of all organs of repression, public or secret.

Who is Grand Ayatollah Montazeri?

Ayatollah Montazeri is a pro-Democracy, pro-Human Rights Ayatollah who was at one point on the short list of possible successors of Khomeini, but became marginalized as he adopted what was seen as a too pro-Western, pro-Democracy stance.

Since the beginning of the Revolution, he has been one of the fiercest critics of the Regime, and one of the biggest proponents of women and civil rights for ALL Iranians, including much-maligned minorities like the Baha'is. In fact he goes further than the protections afforded to them under Sharia.

He is also a big critic of Ahmadinejad and has been seen for years as the best hope for Iran if he ever was to come to power, something that was unthinkable a mere week ago.

Links

For further information on the Basij, Global Security has a good article
about the history of the Basij.

CNN has a good article where eyewitnesses describe the type of violence usually unleashed by the Basij.

Here is another good article from GS again giving more background information on the ruthless Ansar thugs.

BBC profile of Grand Ayatollah Montazeri

important: The Iranian government is looking for dissident twitterers, so if you have an account, change your location and timezone to tehran!


This summary / update comes from another place I frequent ( http://www.fark.com , poster Tatsuma on the most recent thread, here). He has been updating it for every thread news post they greenlight (the 6 threads combined are over 20,000 postings there).

EDIT: There are reports that the protest today is in the millions (compared to the hundreds of thousands yesterday). Sadly, all foreign media is prohibited from reporting today (the government has them under active surveillance), and hence it cannot be fully confirmed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8103577.stm is a BBC article that officially mentions the restrictions.
The melody of logic always plays the notes of truth.
MarklarMarklar
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Fiji1823 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-16 15:41:32
June 16 2009 15:34 GMT
#277
apparantly the millitary is moving in now, not sure of source, fark, twitter
hello there
Arbiter[frolix]
Profile Joined January 2004
United Kingdom2674 Posts
June 16 2009 15:34 GMT
#278
Interesting and dangerous times in Iran, and the violence against protesters is very alarming indeed. It will be interesting to see where this goes, as this is the first time Iran has seen anything like it since the revolution.

Mousavi, for all his reformist tone, is basically part of the Iranian establishment and I do not see a Mousavi presidency bringing any significant change to the country. But reformist and revolutionary protests can be fast moving and the sentiments that fuel them can move on rapidly. Will these protests turn into something which threatens the Islamic republic itself? I think we have seen some signs that they might but only time will tell.
We are vigilant.
[-Bluewolf-]
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States609 Posts
June 16 2009 15:39 GMT
#279
On June 17 2009 00:34 MarklarMarklar wrote:
apparantly the millitary is moving in now, not sure of source


Unconfirmed. According to those twitters that have been posting since the beginning (and who have been verified by their information becoming official news later on), the government has started spreading fake information (including via new twitter accounts) to spread that rumor to scare people from showing up.

There are, however, rumored (by verified twitters) ~2000 basiji (read my post before, not the military) outside the dorms in Tehran now. As the students have fled, many of them are now homeless.
The melody of logic always plays the notes of truth.
MarklarMarklar
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Fiji1823 Posts
June 16 2009 15:42 GMT
#280
how many students are there tho?
hello there
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