EPTAffirmative Action in 2009 - Page 6
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cz
United States3249 Posts
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On February 01 2009 05:30 cz wrote: IM BLACK GIVE ME SPECIAL TREATMENT Quoted for Truth | ||
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ahrara_
Afghanistan1715 Posts
On February 01 2009 05:15 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: Ahara, look at the responses. No one is saying "Damn the system!" They're saying "Damn the guy that got in over me." While that may not be perfectly logical, it is what happens. So, because of the way people ACTUALLY react, it HURTS race relations. And there is absolutely no reason at all that a privileged minority should get something over anyone because he is a minority. Look at the Obama example. How is it fair to anyone that his daughters would get even more special treatment because of their race? They're already going to get loads of special treatment because they're the president's kids (or ex-president depending on what age they are, and will be when applying for jobs/schools), and because they have loads of money. Why throw another benefit towards them? There is no need to try and heal things up with people who already have enough, because it's NOT HELPING RACE RELATIONS. If it were, people would not be replying in the manner in which they are replying. You have a valid point that the hatred, and disgust is being put on the wrong people, but that really doesn't matter, because no one is going to change their views on it. Besides that, the socio-economical will generally favor minorities anyway, because it's generally minorities that are poor, but it won't disqualify a poor white or Asian because they're white or Asian. There's no need to give to those who already have. I disagree with any affirmative action, personally, because I don't think it's all that helpful (and given the things that Caller is talking about with increased drop-out rates, it would seem that I'm right, because it doesn't appear to be helping at all). What I am for is something like the Rooney rule in the NFL (for those who don't know, the owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers made it a priority to give minority candidates a chance to become coaches on his team, and while it's not an actual rule of the NFL, it's used by almost every team). What that does is gives individuals opportunities they may not have had otherwise. The other thing that I am for is making inner-city schools better. I don't know how to achieve that (if I did, I wouldn't be on this forum, I'm sure), but doing that will also help to alleviate the problems we currently face with discrimination, because people will be given an equal opportunity to succeed, which I (and I imagine almost everyone else in the world) have no problem with. What I have a problem with is things being decided on something other than qualifications. And again, that disgust passes right over the people administering the programs, and goes right to the people receiving the benefits (as shown by the responses here, which you are ignoring, for some reason. And by that, I mean that you're ignoring the clear signs of what I'm saying happens, and saying that it should go to the administration, even though that's clearly not what's actually happening). Caller, a lot of this applies to your post too, so I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you. After reading some of the arguments here I'm starting to feel like AA isn't as defensible as I believed. Still... 1.) People are not reacting against those receiving the benefit. Nobody has put down black people as a whole because of AA. Most of the vitrol here is directed against the institution of AA, not the people, which is the point. I just don't see the racist tone you say there is in any of the posts here, unless you count my own against asians, but that's just coz I'm an asshole. Still, it would be reckless of me to say there is NO chance of AA exacerbating racial tensions, but I don't see it happening on the very personal level you claim there is. If national attention becomes focused on AA again for whatever reason, I can definitely see a scenario where people will be polarized towards their respective races. So I see what you're saying here. 2.) The benefit of giving a minority special privileges is that it helps combat racial perceptions. There are considerably more minorities in selective colleges with AA than there were before AA. In this respect, I think such programs do tremendously help destroy stereotypes about other races. However, I'm beginning to doubt if it will heal racial TENSIONS. 3.) I like your alternatives. Ultimately, I think you may be right in that the benefits of AA for race relations are negligible over a socio-economic only program which is likely to capture many of the advantages of AA because such a large portion of America's poor are minorities. | ||
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ahrara_
Afghanistan1715 Posts
On February 01 2009 05:37 CharlieMurphy wrote: it is a communistic/socialistic idea/motion but the capitalist idiots use it as a tool to gain more capital. Why you callin me names? i'm not trying to be an ass but what you just said is hilarious | ||
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
Also I'm against affirmative action. It is simply a form of weak discrimination, because those who are not "affirmed" are by default "denied" in this world of finite resources. This weak discrimination, which some argue isn't that bad, becomes worse when minorities, generally defined as non-white people, are affirmed. But in either case, whether the effect is more affirmative or more repressive, the end result is friction between races. In fact, it helps keep competition along racial lines in the first place, rather than along, say, geographic, political, or a billion other possible grouping methods. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32157 Posts
On February 01 2009 05:40 ahrara_ wrote: 2.) The benefit of giving a minority special privileges is that it helps combat racial perceptions. There are considerably more minorities in selective colleges with AA than there were before AA. In this respect, I think such programs do tremendously help destroy stereotypes about other races. What, that they weren't intelligent enough to get in in the first place? By giving them extra help, all it does is adds ammo for people perpetuating that stereotype. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On February 01 2009 06:04 Hawk wrote: Yup. If people want popular stereotypes to die out, or change, its called acting differently than the stereotype. Minorities can succeed on their own, then people will give them credit, they will just want to fight them if they just pop in and take all the jobs. What, that they weren't intelligent enough to get in in the first place? By giving them extra help, all it does is adds ammo for people perpetuating that stereotype. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
2.) The benefit of giving a minority special privileges is that it helps combat racial perceptions. There are considerably more minorities in selective colleges with AA than there were before AA. In this respect, I think such programs do tremendously help destroy stereotypes about other races. However, I'm beginning to doubt if it will heal racial TENSIONS. The integration of different races into the same institutions allows for decreased ghettoization (intellectually and spacially), while the attempt to equalize education across races makes race a non-issue for systemic denial of advancement, both of which reduce racial tensions. Affirmative action is an evil which pays dividends over time by granting enfranchisement in the economic and decision making apparatuses of our society. The end aim is parity, which is obviously the greatest blow to racial tensions possible. | ||
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ahrara_
Afghanistan1715 Posts
On February 01 2009 06:22 Dazed_Spy wrote: Yup. If people want popular stereotypes to die out, or change, its called acting differently than the stereotype. Minorities can succeed on their own, then people will give them credit, they will just want to fight them if they just pop in and take all the jobs. So it's a black person's fault that society is prejudiced against him and the schools he goes to are poorly funded and staffed? I'm not talking about AA now, I'm talking about your incredibly incredibly naive assumption that we can expect disadvantaged groups in society to simply "reform" themselves, that there are no institutional problems that can't be overcome through personal personal strife. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On February 01 2009 06:31 L wrote: Oh please, protestant hard work saves all people And your phd in sociology came from where? | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On February 01 2009 05:37 CharlieMurphy wrote: Good lord. I mean everyone knows you're kind of an idiot, but you don't have to go around proving us right all the time.it is a communistic/socialistic idea/motion but the capitalist idiots use it as a tool to gain more capital. Why you callin me names? | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
And your phd in sociology came from where? The University of Sarcasm. | ||
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Sonu
Canada577 Posts
in this day an age it should be based entirely on the person itself. Every race and religon has its fair share of good people and compelte faggots ex. an employer hiring some dude. he should be interviweing him as if he was wearing a blind fold that makes everything blue (there no skin colours). Then he can just base his decision off of his answers to the interview | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On February 01 2009 06:29 ahrara_ wrote: Asians managed to reform themselves in a society that was a fuckload more racist then we are against blacks. Yes, such a racist society we live in, its not like we just elected a black to lead the country, and we dont have a black running the rnc.So it's a black person's fault that society is prejudiced against him and the schools he goes to are poorly funded and staffed? I'm not talking about AA now, I'm talking about your incredibly incredibly naive assumption that we can expect disadvantaged groups in society to simply "reform" themselves, that there are no institutional problems that can't be overcome through personal personal strife. Get the fuck over it. There are some racists against blacks. Some against whites, etc. People WILL and ARE angry at blacks that they get preferential treatment. There can be no god damn parity, nor should there be if it meant discriminating against a group of people. Whites have gotten into good economic states over the development of centuries, you cant achieve parity in a shitty attempt in a few decades to KICK THEM OUT OF SCHOOL AND JOB OPPORTUNITIES. | ||
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ahrara_
Afghanistan1715 Posts
On February 01 2009 07:25 Dazed_Spy wrote: Asians managed to reform themselves in a society that was a fuckload more racist then we are against blacks. Yes, such a racist society we live in, its not like we just elected a black to lead the country, and we dont have a black running the rnc. Get the fuck over it. There are some racists against blacks. Some against whites, etc. People WILL and ARE angry at blacks that they get preferential treatment. There can be no god damn parity, nor should there be if it meant discriminating against a group of people. Whites have gotten into good economic states over the development of centuries, you cant achieve parity in a shitty attempt in a few decades to KICK THEM OUT OF SCHOOL AND JOB OPPORTUNITIES. lol you think asians "reformed" themselves. take a sociology course. or a history course. read a book. live a little, then come back. i can't argue with somebody that is going to come up with arbitrary explanation for phenomenon they don't understand. | ||
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ahrara_
Afghanistan1715 Posts
On February 01 2009 06:43 Jibba wrote: Good lord. I mean everyone knows you're kind of an idiot, but you don't have to go around proving us right all the time. HAHAHAHAHA | ||
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XoXiDe
United States620 Posts
i do personally find it hilarious the republicans chose a black guy for head of rnc after we elected barack obama, and chose sarah palin for vp candidate to pander to women. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On February 01 2009 07:29 ahrara_ wrote: lol, you realize the stereotype of asians was that they were dirty and untrustworthy right? Cause even though they were hard working, many of them, as a result of the times, had to rob to survive. They were, like any minority group [yes white groups as well, irish, italian, catholics], in a very bad position in society at one time. Really no point arguing with a racist like you though. lol you think asians "reformed" themselves. take a sociology course. or a history course. read a book. live a little, then come back. i can't argue with somebody that is going to come up with arbitrary explanation for phenomenon they don't understand.  | ||
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