EPTConsidering Salah ad-Din was largely justified, you've got some explaining to do about this large chunk of time where being non-muslim wasn't an issue. "Clash of civilizations" is utter bullshit.
Afghan pres wishes to shoot down US planes - Page 9
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Considering Salah ad-Din was largely justified, you've got some explaining to do about this large chunk of time where being non-muslim wasn't an issue. "Clash of civilizations" is utter bullshit. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
But surely modern Islamists have brought it to another level. But there's very recent christian cases and there are plenty of secular one's as well. But surely the notion of afterlife works because then you can do it without a single bit of altruism. | ||
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Locke.
Israel562 Posts
On December 24 2008 19:42 BlackStar wrote: Suicide attacks are as old as wars. Hell, there's a semi-documented case where Knight's Templars did a suicde attack. That must have been during Saladin's time if I remember correct. But surely modern Islamists have brought it to another level. But there's very recent christian cases and there are plenty of secular one's as well. But surely the notion of afterlife works because then you can do it without a single bit of altruism. You are right that suicide attack are very old. there have been many cases some of them very famous like the Japanese Kamikaze pilots and such. The suicide bombers in the name of Islam phenomenon is pretty new and it became widespread mainly in the 1990s. What is unique is that they suicide not in order to destroy an opposing army they do it to kill ordinary people who don't threaten them in any way, in the name of their religion. Even more interesting in many of this attacks the suicide bombers can execute the bombs from afar or just lay it down and escape yet they prefer to die for the cause of killing ordinary people. Unfortunately they are using a whole different scale of morality and the world will have to learn to deal with it. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
Just slaughtering innocents undermine a society has happened throughout history. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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Lefnui
United States753 Posts
On December 24 2008 11:55 IdrA wrote: christian apologists and moderates will tell you the earth isnt really 6000 years old does that change the fact that the fundamentalists believe it? look at what i said. the MILITANT muslims. just look at their actions and their statements. + Show Spoiler + from the qu'ran "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure," (Surah 61:4) "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things," (Surah 9:38-39) from the hadith "The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred in His cause."Volume 1, Book 2, Number 35 "Allah's Apostle said, "Allah guarantees (the person who carries out Jihad in His Cause and nothing compelled him to go out but Jihad in His Cause and the belief in His Word) that He will either admit him into Paradise (Martyrdom) or return him with reward or booty he has earned to his residence from where he went out." Volume 9, Book 93, Number 555: ya theyre just taking it all out of context to justify themselves. Comical how you're unable to answer the most basic questions. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Today, it is easy to find Marines measuring footbridges, Air Force pilots negotiating with road contractors, Navy reservists debating the finer points of pouring concrete for school foundations, infantrymen immersed in solar-cooking projects, and field medics handing out packets of lozenges to curious villagers. Moreover, explains John Espinoza, the State Department representative in Nuristan Province, there is simply more emphasis on such support. "While the amount of money committed to the effort is important, the impact of small, lower-cost community projects is also critical," he says. "Whether it's fresh water supplies, schools, clinics ... we are bringing immediate changes to Afghan communities. The long-term effects of that cannot be underestimated." All this is being carried out amid ongoing fighting and a rising death toll. But while it is difficult to do effective development work without security, stresses Nuristan PRT commander George Perez – it's harder yet to attain security without offering development. "Until we really have an impact here, in terms of healthcare, education, etc., Afghans will continue to suffer – and be amenable to ideological pressures of Al Qaeda," says Mr. Perez, a submarine officer. We need to give them a reason to be on our side." This is how you win over a country. Some Special Forces groups were doing this during Vietnam and were very successful, helping villages and gaining added security through villager loyalty and information. Unfortunately it was too little, too late. | ||
BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On December 24 2008 20:46 Locke. wrote: The suicide bombers in the name of Islam phenomenon is pretty new and it became widespread mainly in the 1990s. What is unique is that they suicide not in order to destroy an opposing army they do it to kill ordinary people who don't threaten them in any way, in the name of their religion. You're pretty much totally wrong. Google something about russian revolution and terrorism in the beginning of 20'th century. Those muslims didn't invent anything. It started pretty much as soon as humankind invented explosives, but there has been a huge halt in the use of these methods. Why? Apparently, something is indeed very wrong with the world if people keep sacrificing their lives just to make someone listen to their message. Once again, it's what Nietzsche phrased best: "If you want your writings read, write them with blood." | ||
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
On December 24 2008 20:46 Locke. wrote: Even more interesting in many of this attacks the suicide bombers can execute the bombs from afar or just lay it down and escape yet they prefer to die for the cause of killing ordinary people. it's also so they can become martyrs in the name of Islam. | ||
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sqwert
United States781 Posts
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Deleted User 31996
843 Posts
On December 24 2008 20:46 Locke. wrote: The suicide bombers in the name of Islam phenomenon is pretty new and it became widespread mainly in the 1990s. What is unique is that they suicide not in order to destroy an opposing army they do it to kill ordinary people who don't threaten them in any way, in the name of their religion. How about that country, who illegally occupies a land and claims it theirs under the name of a religion, (which ironically is against their own religion) as is the opinion of many anti-zionist orthodox jews. | ||
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
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Locke.
Israel562 Posts
On December 25 2008 18:01 BluzMan wrote: You're pretty much totally wrong. Google something about russian revolution and terrorism in the beginning of 20'th century. Those muslims didn't invent anything. It started pretty much as soon as humankind invented explosives, but there has been a huge halt in the use of these methods. Why? Apparently, something is indeed very wrong with the world if people keep sacrificing their lives just to make someone listen to their message. Once again, it's what Nietzsche phrased best: "If you want your writings read, write them with blood." I didn't say there was no terrorism before and that people didn't suicide to kill others that has been going on for ages. I said that what was special in the new Muslim terror is that the death of the killer is a value by itself. Even if they can save their lives and kill just as much they prefer to die as well. Of course others died while doing terror attacks but their death wasn't the goal. That is what's unique with the new Muslim terror. BTW if you quote someone, quote the whole paragraph and not just one sentence so you don't get it out of context, this is not law school... | ||
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Locke.
Israel562 Posts
On December 25 2008 20:49 liosama wrote: How about that country, who illegally occupies a land and claims it theirs under the name of a religion, (which ironically is against their own religion) as is the opinion of many anti-zionist orthodox jews. Too much unrelated nonsense to answer. What are you even trying to say? | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On December 25 2008 22:25 Locke. wrote: I didn't say there was no terrorism before and that people didn't suicide to kill others that has been going on for ages. I said that what was special in the new Muslim terror is that the death of the killer is a value by itself. Even if they can save their lives and kill just as much they prefer to die as well. Of course others died while doing terror attacks but their death wasn't the goal. That is what's unique with the new Muslim terror. BTW if you quote someone, quote the whole paragraph and not just one sentence so you don't get it out of context, this is not law school... It's not really unique to Islam though. Kurds don't do it in the name of Allah against other Sunni Muslims, and there's a few other secular groups. It's another one of those practical things that has been construed to seem ideological, by both sides. It had to begin that way simply because remote explosives were out of the question when they first started doing it, and then it started gaining more stigma. It also gives greater adaptability and the psychological effect is bigger than it would be otherwise. When they're low on money to keep paying families or recruitment dwindles (when you give teenage boys something better to do with their time) they'll adjust to the problem. | ||
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