EPTOn July 17 2008 00:03 NastyMarine wrote:
NJ is outta control. look at 80
NJ is outta control. look at 80
Yeah, haha. 46 used to be nuts, pre construction. They finally just finished the shit by my house, thank god.
US Economy: How worried are you?? - Page 7
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QuanticHawk
United States32027 Posts
Yeah, haha. 46 used to be nuts, pre construction. They finally just finished the shit by my house, thank god. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12224 Posts
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iloveHieu
United States1919 Posts
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axel
France385 Posts
1) europe and france will suffer as much as usa 2) i think it's really serious. | ||
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InfeSteD
United States4658 Posts
A lot of stocks have been going down this past year, and they will go back up for sure when the economy gets back on their feet. I just barely started my 401 K retirement plan, Wells Fargo matches 100% of my contribution each pay check. I am not really worried I think... Gas prices do worry me though, so expensive zomg! Damn Venezuela | ||
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Ecael
United States6703 Posts
On July 17 2008 01:33 InfeSteD[rA] wrote: I am not really worried at all at the moment, because I am young with no debt and work for a really strong company called Wells Fargo. A lot of banks in the country are struggling really bad which make us look really good. In the other hand, It's an awesome time to purchase a home in Utah, because prices stayed stable and they will go back up so I can start building some equity. A lot of stocks have been going down this past year, and they will go back up for sure when the economy gets back on their feet. I just barely started my 401 K retirement plan, Wells Fargo matches 100% of my contribution each pay check. I am not really worried I think... Gas prices do worry me though, so expensive zomg! Damn Venezuela lol, speaking of Wells Fargo, they did manage to post a record high revenue even if net income dropped, opening pretty strong today. | ||
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
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jgad
Canada899 Posts
On July 16 2008 22:02 Jibba wrote: Are you fucking kidding me? First of all, his circle consists of monetarists and Keynesian economists, and neither are unsensible. Let me guess, you've read a Ron Paul book and the introduction to a Hayek book and now "realize" Austrian is the greatest thing ever. And again, the President really doesn't have the capability to fix the economy and it's not his job. You can vote for who you think is more beneficial (I'm not convinced with Obama, but McCain's economics knowledge is essentially non-existent) but in reality it comes down to Congress and the Federal Reserve. Yeah, Hayek... Rothbard, Adams - I've even read Keynes' General Theory, so you can't really accuse me of ignorance. I confess that I'm a physicist by trade and not an economist, but I'm hardly ill read on the subject. And I agree that the President doesn't have the capability to fix the economy, nor is it his job - the problem with guys like Obama is that they seem to think that they can, and that it is. He's also just as corrupt (or at least corruptible) as the rest of them and has no qualms about lying through his teeth and resorting to bait-and-switch campaigning to win. I agree that the US Congress *in theory* has the power to actually get things done, but let's be honest - when was the last time, aside from the odd anomaly, have you ever seen an American Congressman who wasn't just sucking at the teat of democracy with a thumb up his arse? | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On July 16 2008 14:39 evanthebouncy! wrote: 1) we eat rice mostly 2) we rent apartment atm 3) we have little/none mortage, only 1 on car atm I think my family is at a stable income to not be affected too much. Those of lower income gonna get hit hard imho. The price of rice has nearly tripled as well... It used to be at around ~$8 for a 20lb bag on a good day...now they're like $18+ :\ | ||
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
1) USA buys a lot of chinese products. 2) Chinese now have a lot of money from USA but they need someone to buy those stuff, so 3) they loan USA banks money back (goes to customers eventually) 4) USA gets more and more dept to China still to come 5) China releases its currency fully to market, most likely it value goes up 2-3 times and dollar falls 6) China wants money back from USA. But yeh we will see what future brings... | ||
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Ecael
United States6703 Posts
On July 17 2008 02:58 Too_MuchZerg wrote: China-USA effect. 1) USA buys a lot of chinese products. 2) Chinese now have a lot of money from USA but they need someone to buy those stuff, so 3) they loan USA banks money back (goes to customers eventually) 4) USA gets more and more dept to China still to come 5) China releases its currency fully to market, most likely it value goes up 2-3 times and dollar falls 6) China wants money back from USA. But yeh we will see what future brings... So 5 is done in order to completely negate 1~4 and devalue 6? | ||
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
On July 17 2008 03:12 Ecael wrote: So 5 is done in order to completely negate 1~4 and devalue 6? could be, its just a guess. Most likely China will stop lending and rebuild its own country more up to standards. I am not sure how remimbi (chinese currency) and dollar functions but I heard its fixed rate still to dollar. Because international pressure China might have to release currency (because now its too cheap). But China won't do that because their economy would go down, so they just keep lending money, but day will come when they want money back... | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
On July 17 2008 02:58 Too_MuchZerg wrote: China-USA effect. 1) USA buys a lot of chinese products. 2) Chinese now have a lot of money from USA but they need someone to buy those stuff, so 3) they loan USA banks money back (goes to customers eventually) 4) USA gets more and more dept to China Not really. 1) China's political elite's greed finally outweighs their insecurity and xenophobia. 2) They herd the oppressed peasantry into foreign factories as slave labor (which is actually better treatment than they were receiving before) and rent out the countryside as an industrial toilet. 3) China being China, the domestic profits mostly go into government coffers and the pockets of corrupt officials rather than enterprising businessmen or competent investors. 4) These bozos have no idea what to do with their money, so they pile up what they're receiving in payment: US currency, and it's closest "investment" equivalents: US government bonds and US dollar debt packages. still to come 5) China releases its currency fully to market, most likely it value goes up 2-3 times and dollar falls 6) China wants money back from USA. But yeh we will see what future brings... 5.5) China's exports fall, foreign investors pull out, and it's economy crashes. China faces mass starvation and desperately needs money to import food from agricultural powerhouses such as the USA so its people don't revolt. 7) China ends up having to sell long-term securities for pennies on the dollar and spend the money on American corn. A lot of China "lending" to the USA is actually China buying things like packaged mortgage debts. During a housing bubble. (Not to mention long-term, low interest government bonds during a time of loose monetary policy and high inflation.) Now what is going to happen to these packaged up mortgage debts? Well, a lot of mortgages are going to foreclose. The houses are going to be sold for well under the mortgage debt. There will be a lot of affordable homes on the US market, and the people who bought the mortgage debts are going to get screwed. In short, this kind of investment was a big stupid gift of money to American land owners and home builders. The housing bubble was driven in no small part by this kind of naive foreign investment. The banks who made the loans didn't worry about whether the buyers would be able to make their payments, because they were turning around and selling the debts for immediate profit to people who just didn't know any better. Everyone who's saying, "Oh, the bumbling corrupt lapsed communists who have failed over and over and over again while making grandiose claims of superiority, this time they have it all figured out and are going to win!" is engaging in fantasy. They're the exact same sort of people who believed in communism the first time around. The USA can survive an end of trade with China with small inconvenience. To China, it would be an economy-destroying disaster. China holds US currency as precious and saves as much as it can for the sake of its own security. The USA has little interest in Chinese currency or assets in China beyond their immediate uses. These things should tell you which country holds the power in that relationship. | ||
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InfeSteD
United States4658 Posts
On July 17 2008 01:42 Ecael wrote: lol, speaking of Wells Fargo, they did manage to post a record high revenue even if net income dropped, opening pretty strong today. Wells Fargo ftw! | ||
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
On July 16 2008 09:36 a-game wrote: mahnini at the rate oil's been going up how long do you think it's going to be before renewable energy is profitable? if government just stepped in right now and kickstarted the switch i don't see the risk there at all, it's inevitable that the price of oil is only going to go up unless you kill off a bunch of population. and the price of renewable energy can only go down from where it is now as the technologies become cheaper and more honed. anyways like others said other than an energy revolution what else will kickstart the economy? world war 3? EDIT: i'm always open to being informed or politely corrected I'm going to assume we are talking about replacing gasoline here. There is simply nothing at the moment that could match the infrastructure of the gas market, there are literally gas stations everywhere. What do you propose the government do to kickstart the adaptation of renewable energies? It's very easy when you put it that way, but you are failing to realize that there are already tons of private companies investing in alternative forms of energy. The problem is not in the intent but the implementation of the idea. You simply cannot, cannot, cannot have the government do something like this without expecting it to take years for any result, not to mention they are already behind the private sector. If global, multi-billion dollar companies cannot find a way to profit off of alternative energies, what chance does a government with zero motivation have? On July 16 2008 18:40 a-game wrote: mahnini http://www.earth-policy.org/Books/PB2/pb2ch12.pdf http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/5/1/Part_IV_Introduction_group.pdf check out this report on specifically handling government involvement in energy technology http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/files/creating_incentives2.pdf these lead me to believe that your point is debatable EDIT: again i'm here to learn as much as anything, so if anyone wants to inform please do. i'm not under any delusions of grandeur here Subsidies are completely different from actual government intervention in effect. Most government developments are probably the result of government investment into private companies who want some sort of government contract. I'm not completely opposed to that, however, I still maintain that government investment in a creating a new segment in the market for alternative energies is a complete waste of money. If it could be done for profit, it already would have been or is being done. | ||
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1tym
Korea (South)2425 Posts
NO WE'RE NOT. America has not even actively started pumping their own oil yet. Plus Canada and Venezuela possesses sand oil enough to feed the entire continents for decades. They will start outsourcing from 2010 I think. Also we have technology to extract oil from plastic. When people are talking about oil crisis, it's never the extinguishment of oil in next 100 years, it's talking about supply not meeting the demands. So get your facts right. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On July 17 2008 02:08 jgad wrote: Yeah, Hayek... Rothbard, Adams - I've even read Keynes' General Theory, so you can't really accuse me of ignorance. I confess that I'm a physicist by trade and not an economist, but I'm hardly ill read on the subject. And I agree that the President doesn't have the capability to fix the economy, nor is it his job - the problem with guys like Obama is that they seem to think that they can, and that it is. He's also just as corrupt (or at least corruptible) as the rest of them and has no qualms about lying through his teeth and resorting to bait-and-switch campaigning to win. I agree that the US Congress *in theory* has the power to actually get things done, but let's be honest - when was the last time, aside from the odd anomaly, have you ever seen an American Congressman who wasn't just sucking at the teat of democracy with a thumb up his arse? Well, I suppose you should look at the other ways they can affect (not fix) the economy, like war for instance. Which of the two is the bigger war hawk and willing to send us out again? Which of the two seems less likely to support the right types of next-gen fuel (not e85)? Or do you think a gas tax will be beneficial at all? I don't think any president is going to have much to do with the oil crisis anymore, unless they open up Alaska. It's up to private investors at this point. From what I've read, Obama has surrounded himself with academics and I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but McCain has surrounded himself with corporate chairs. I'm worried that if the economy does continue to derail, people will blame the president instead of Congress. And to the poster above, we are in a recession. Two quarters of negative growth is not the definition the BEA uses. And the Fed is both public and private. | ||
ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
Even moderate mutual funds (2/3 equities, 1/3 bonds/fixed income) should have been generating 10% a year (average) over that period. 8% isn't horrible, but it was basically impossible to make less than that during that time period. | ||
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
On July 17 2008 04:43 Funchucks wrote: Not really. 1) China's political elite's greed finally outweighs their insecurity and xenophobia. 2) They herd the oppressed peasantry into foreign factories as slave labor (which is actually better treatment than they were receiving before) and rent out the countryside as an industrial toilet. 3) China being China, the domestic profits mostly go into government coffers and the pockets of corrupt officials rather than enterprising businessmen or competent investors. 4) These bozos have no idea what to do with their money, so they pile up what they're receiving in payment: US currency, and it's closest "investment" equivalents: US government bonds and US dollar debt packages. 5.5) China's exports fall, foreign investors pull out, and it's economy crashes. China faces mass starvation and desperately needs money to import food from agricultural powerhouses such as the USA so its people don't revolt. 7) China ends up having to sell long-term securities for pennies on the dollar and spend the money on American corn. A lot of China "lending" to the USA is actually China buying things like packaged mortgage debts. During a housing bubble. (Not to mention long-term, low interest government bonds during a time of loose monetary policy and high inflation.) Now what is going to happen to these packaged up mortgage debts? Well, a lot of mortgages are going to foreclose. The houses are going to be sold for well under the mortgage debt. There will be a lot of affordable homes on the US market, and the people who bought the mortgage debts are going to get screwed. In short, this kind of investment was a big stupid gift of money to American land owners and home builders. The housing bubble was driven in no small part by this kind of naive foreign investment. The banks who made the loans didn't worry about whether the buyers would be able to make their payments, because they were turning around and selling the debts for immediate profit to people who just didn't know any better. Everyone who's saying, "Oh, the bumbling corrupt lapsed communists who have failed over and over and over again while making grandiose claims of superiority, this time they have it all figured out and are going to win!" is engaging in fantasy. They're the exact same sort of people who believed in communism the first time around. The USA can survive an end of trade with China with small inconvenience. To China, it would be an economy-destroying disaster. China holds US currency as precious and saves as much as it can for the sake of its own security. The USA has little interest in Chinese currency or assets in China beyond their immediate uses. These things should tell you which country holds the power in that relationship. An excellent write up. I'd like to pose an alternate reality to you Chinese government nationalizes all holdings in China. Simultaneously they dump their holdings of US Dollars. The Dollar free fall plummets, but the Chinese don't care because they aren't trading with us anymore. They also get more return out of the factories they've just acquired than the loss of the currency. They turn to providing goods to the rest of the planet. They do not fear US military retaliation since a) they have tons of factories b) US currency and economic shock prevents the US from assuming a total war stance with any real vigor c) they're all the way across the Pacific ocean, they have one of the worlds top militaries (including a Navy that is consistently closing the gap with ours), and they can outlast US What then? | ||
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
On July 17 2008 04:43 Funchucks wrote: Not really. 1) China's political elite's greed finally outweighs their insecurity and xenophobia. 2) They herd the oppressed peasantry into foreign factories as slave labor (which is actually better treatment than they were receiving before) and rent out the countryside as an industrial toilet. 3) China being China, the domestic profits mostly go into government coffers and the pockets of corrupt officials rather than enterprising businessmen or competent investors. 4) These bozos have no idea what to do with their money, so they pile up what they're receiving in payment: US currency, and it's closest "investment" equivalents: US government bonds and US dollar debt packages. 5.5) China's exports fall, foreign investors pull out, and it's economy crashes. China faces mass starvation and desperately needs money to import food from agricultural powerhouses such as the USA so its people don't revolt. 7) China ends up having to sell long-term securities for pennies on the dollar and spend the money on American corn. A lot of China "lending" to the USA is actually China buying things like packaged mortgage debts. During a housing bubble. (Not to mention long-term, low interest government bonds during a time of loose monetary policy and high inflation.) Now what is going to happen to these packaged up mortgage debts? Well, a lot of mortgages are going to foreclose. The houses are going to be sold for well under the mortgage debt. There will be a lot of affordable homes on the US market, and the people who bought the mortgage debts are going to get screwed. In short, this kind of investment was a big stupid gift of money to American land owners and home builders. The housing bubble was driven in no small part by this kind of naive foreign investment. The banks who made the loans didn't worry about whether the buyers would be able to make their payments, because they were turning around and selling the debts for immediate profit to people who just didn't know any better. Everyone who's saying, "Oh, the bumbling corrupt lapsed communists who have failed over and over and over again while making grandiose claims of superiority, this time they have it all figured out and are going to win!" is engaging in fantasy. They're the exact same sort of people who believed in communism the first time around. The USA can survive an end of trade with China with small inconvenience. To China, it would be an economy-destroying disaster. China holds US currency as precious and saves as much as it can for the sake of its own security. The USA has little interest in Chinese currency or assets in China beyond their immediate uses. These things should tell you which country holds the power in that relationship. stop lying to yourself... | ||
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