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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
lol. srs business.
for the record, here's what i really think. moltke got done with a basic econ class, with the preference graphs and such, and basically made a troll post with some mistakes in it. i was amused enough to play along, aiming for some ironic effect. it hasn't gone as planned, although not all too bad for those paying attention.
now i am a bit bored, so let's go on.
the question is,
why moltke is trolling
first, utilitarian economic analysis is not found in moltke's general sincere sentiments as expressed in his post history. perhaps it is somehow in there, but i fail to see it up to this point. at least, we can say that the economist rhetoric is not sincere, but rather, pretentious. moltke's sincere attitude toward the shirt and to tl is tsundere, but the motivation for being contrarian in this instance is probably cultural. it is a sentiment i somewhat share, so i know where he is coming from with that.
second, looking at the post in question, it is obvious that it will functionally troll. but why is it such a good troll post? not because of moltke's sincere attitude on the shirt, but because of the way it is set up, with all the flourish and jargon that obviously miss the entire point of the shirt being a community project. it appears to be a fresh perspective, but is in reality a brute act of noncooperation with the ongoing agenda. basic trolling.
all in all, this incident is not all that serious.
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you completely missed the point.
Not at all. What you are describing is basically the difference between price and value. That is, overvaluation of a product.
The price of a product is simply fixed by supply and demand, and but this demand does not need to be universal. Fashion caters to niches, and people who buy into certain trends may purchase social prestige within a confined social group, the gains in which will outweigh the respective decline of social prestige in the general population. Of course, a market of one will not derive any benefit at all from such an item, barring self-satisfaction, however, the tl.net logo is known among thousands of people across the world. With restricted supply, one may purchase sufficient prestige among this group which outweighs the net loss in general society.
A copy of Action Comics #1 sells for over half a million dollars in comic book trading, yet not 1% of the population would pay such a price for the book, even so, it is a sound investment. Why? Because there are thousands of people who do demand the item and are willing to pay according to its content and rarity.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
well played. copied my point about prestige in tl only, and surrendered the general contention altogether. i suppose it is also useless to say that you are not really serious about buying the shirt solely for prestige on tl.net. im going to sleep.
and, unless you are buying the shirt aiming to sell, supply and demand is rather irrelevant. your initial post could only be interpreted as saying that you would value the shirt if it 'bestowed status onto owner,' not if it 'earned a profitable return or fair priced purchase.'
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copied my point about prestige in tl only, and surrendered the general contention altogether.
Actually I was under the impression that I was teaching you a valuable lesson about how niche markets work. Your equation of majoritarian value with general value is a forgivable mistake, although your failure to own up to it is a bit dishonest. I thought that your pursuit of the obvious with the enthusiasm of a near-sighted detective could have benefitted from a view informed by a common sense free of myopia, but now I see the futility of fueling Voltarian sins- intellectual plagiarism with (in this case attempted) wit.
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Baltimore, USA22258 Posts
God I love watching Moltke in action.
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I just realized, that oneofthem operates under the assumption that my motives are as he stated above, to be precise, my intent on blackening the efforts of the community project.
Revealing that I enter the value of communal prestige into the equation, thereby negating his hypothesis must have been rather shocking to his confidence as a character critic, which is not really a shortcoming. Good critics are shocked by new perspectives on each new reading of a complex book, but I have yet to read the critic who claims that Hamlet surrendered to his interpretation of Hamlet's own motives, rather than see his own former interpretive shortcomings.
What's the point of reading anything- whether literature, history, or posts by tl.netters, if you enter the fray with a fixed interpretation? Another example of the inflation of opinion in democratic societies where many speak, few listen.
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Austin10833 Posts
Dear Moltke and oneofthem,
Cellar door.
Sincerely,
BroOd
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
oh no it was not contrary to the hypothesis at all, it is precisely the point. had you followed the plan, you would have admitted so yourself. that, despite taking a contrarian position here and generally, you do consider prestige in the community of immense value.
the only part of your post i questioned was this,
"if the prices were increased as to endow its possessor with exceptional economic class"
the analysis i gave is straightforward, look into it and try to find a contention about market value. you will find none. the point you made is not an economic one anyway, but one within social theory. the functional aspect of price in this case is social recognition of value, not the purchasing price. an increase in purchasing price does not translate into recognized value in all situations. you've got this about 540 degrees backward. just a hint, words that look similar work in different ways, consumer theory and price equilibriums are not the same.
anyway, good night.
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Yeah, my shirt just arrived. Awesome piece of cloth. :D I gonna try get a pic of myself asap, but it might take some time. ~.~
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the functional aspect of price in this case is social recognition of value, not the purchasing price. an increase in purchasing price does not translate into recognized value in all situations.
Your approach to this is 800 degrees backward, if not 1160. The goal here is to determine whether the value desired could be created in this particular circumstance. and not whether value can be simply increased with price as an economic law. Nowhere have I suggested that charging $5000 for a paperclip would raise the value of the paperclip to that amount. I think this is the third time I've had to repeat something so obvious.
Now, we can both agree that socio-economic prestige on these forums is worth an exclusive and inflated price, and only someone with a cynical, contrarian, non-cooperative attitude regarding this community would rate the value of adulation from this community at beneath its proper value, no?
And here we find something awfully complex about human nature. Simone Weil once wrote that we cannot know the impersonal except through the personal, and the collective, never. It had always seemed likely that oneofthem superimposed his own true motives on me, and by casting me as a contrarian, he was attempting to analyse his own cynical and contemptuous character. His refusal to acknowledge the value of prestige in the community of tl.net confirms this buzzing suspicion, and his habit of imposing his own qualities on others is the moral equivalence of those war criminals who attempt to sidestep conviction by casting evidence against others.
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While it might be analogous, it's hardly the moral equivalence, and I find it hard to believe someone of your intelligence could legitimately confuse the two.
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I got my shirt today!!! I will post a pic tomorrow after my final exam.
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I thought this thread was to show off your shirt, not debating about it. :/
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Oh shit is it happening? Oh shit I think it is! Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet this is like a dream come true lololol.
On May 15 2008 12:30 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 11:56 thedeadhaji wrote:
we seriously need a Moltke vs Oneofthem showmatch in philosophical debate or something. That would just take forever... one of them is intelligent and persistant, the other is a brick wall.
Don't brick walls usually win in these kinds of analogies?  P
+ Show Spoiler +I didn't read any of their posts w00t
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On May 15 2008 21:17 thedeadhaji wrote:Oh shit is it happening? Oh shit I think it is! Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet this is like a dream come true lololol. Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 12:30 EvilTeletubby wrote:On May 15 2008 11:56 thedeadhaji wrote:
we seriously need a Moltke vs Oneofthem showmatch in philosophical debate or something. That would just take forever... one of them is intelligent and persistant, the other is a brick wall. Don't brick walls usually win in these kinds of analogies? P + Show Spoiler +I didn't read any of their posts w00t
Only when you play racket ball. :-D
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4492 Posts
Gawd, I feel so compelled to jump right in on the action going on here, but the topic is just... So I'll pass 
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On May 15 2008 17:04 BroOd wrote:
Dear Moltke and oneofthem,
Cellar door.
Sincerely,
BroOd
I think cellar door is the most beautiful phonetic phrase in the english language.
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On May 15 2008 08:57 lilsusie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2008 22:43 mnm wrote:
if u want more female pics, u need to help me find 23 females that will wear xs tl tank tops =[.
i wear my tl shirt to bed since its big on me =p. Thanks for making me feel fat, 'chelle.
stop feeling self conscious sue. you're the cutest girl here. =p
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On May 15 2008 23:24 SuperJongMan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2008 17:04 BroOd wrote:
Dear Moltke and oneofthem,
Cellar door.
Sincerely,
BroOd I think cellar door is the most beautiful phonetic phrase in the english language.
did you think that before you saw Donnie Darko?
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EPT
